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On January 16 2013 18:40 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:
I think what this whole thing has demonstrated is fairly obvious.
1) Teams need to be far more cautious with their information. Seriously the amount of stuff that flies around on Skype and such is ridiculous. I know so many things I shouldn't and so does anyone who has any real involvement in the scene. This should not be happening, tighten up, plug the leaks, put serious effort into keeping your information firmly locked down.
2) Leaks are cheap and easy content which gets page-views. It might sound like a good idea now but I can guarantee that in the long-term it's a better business strategy to increase the quality of your content and make sure your audience values you not merely because you have access to leaks but because you create content to a high standard, consistently. If all you are known for is leaked information then as soon as that dries up you are fucked.
3) Teams and media organizations need to think about how they can best benefit each other. The media benefits teams, there is no doubt about it, they have reach that teams do not and more eyes on what teams are doing is always good. The media relies on teams, without them there is no scene and every time that goes under because they can't keep the doors open due to lack of funds might be a nice little traffic surge that day but in the long-term damages the scene just a little more, a scene which you rely on for your content. Free press or TEAM MOUTHPIECE is a complete false dichotomy, there are so many levels of cooperation that do not have to infringe on the rights of the free press or on their journalistic integrity. Just finished watching the vod+ reading this I gotta thank you for being the only party involved with a clearminded, and reasonbale attitude during this whole mess. I don't know whose idea it was to have slasher on a EG talkshow to discuss this but similar to the Destiny incident a few months ago, I don't see the point of having 4 EG guys + 1 MC who is depending on EG to gang up on Slasher. It was certainly entertaining though to see Alex Garfield make a fool of himself and hypocrit Incontrol striking again, I guess he would support a witchhunt against Slasher because its coming from EG although his past blog statements would contradict that. Also, I appreciate that they brought Destiny on but all I heared was fucking fucking fucking during his reasoning.
I honestly think the 3 EG players basically kept out of the whole thing. iNcontroL was pretty reserved. Yeah, they're all EG guys, but it certainly didn't feel like they were ganging up on Slasher like they did with Destiny and Avilo. None of them got heated, they didn't really insult him. I'm not sure where you're getting this.
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From Slasher point of view when team wants to give exclusive interview etc to not release it before certain date is dangerous thing too. If team already leaked information to Slasher then who else it might reveal before Slasher might get it out. Have to be quick when you have really strong source.
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This seems to be the hot topic of the day...
In the instance of Alex's attitude and statements I do think he has every right to be angry about his team's news and whatnot being leaked. However Slasher is absolutely the wrong person to be angry with. It's not his job to care or take some moral high ground as it regards to leaking news, its his job to report on it, and it isn't like Slasher is sneaking into the EG lair (for instance) and stealing top secret documents, he is getting this information legitimately in some way. Alex should direct that frustration towards himself/his team because someone is passing the info along in some way, be it a mistake or on purpose. It is up to EG to do their best to keep a lid on things on their end.
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Are people watching the same video I am? They don't 'gang up' on slasher, the only one who gets personal is Alex and he did come across really poorly. SC reddit right now is a disgusting circle jerk of EG hate and exaggerations.
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On January 16 2013 19:10 zefreak wrote:
Are people watching the same video I am? They don't 'gang up' on slasher, the only one who gets personal is Alex and he did come across really poorly. SC reddit right now is a disgusting circle jerk of EG hate and exaggerations.
That's how it is normally though, anything that can be taken and used to fuel the eternal EG hate flame is over dramatized, Beside's Incontrol's occasional comment it was Wheat, Slasher, Alex, and TB. TB was the only one to really make a worthwhile statement though.
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The slasher thing is about the Liquid Snute stuff ? Meh, nevermind ,i will just listen to it.
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On January 16 2013 19:13 TheSoi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:10 zefreak wrote:
Are people watching the same video I am? They don't 'gang up' on slasher, the only one who gets personal is Alex and he did come across really poorly. SC reddit right now is a disgusting circle jerk of EG hate and exaggerations. That's how it is normally though, anything that can be taken and used to fuel the eternal EG hate flame is over dramatized, Beside's Incontrol's occasional comment it was Wheat, Slasher, Alex, and TB. TB was the only one to really make a worthwhile statement though.
Most of the comments seem to be people copy+pasting their comments after the destiny incident. Its just recycling the same old shit
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It's on the team owners and players to maintain their own confidentiality. Any journalist will write about a story that a couple of third-parties will confirm. If the owners and players won't or can't keep their secrets confidential, they're at the mercy of any journalists out there. Welcome to the real world.
Edit: Alex's point of view is completely ridiculous. If a team wants a journalist's work to be beneficial to them, they have to control their own stories. It's not a journalist's job to work for the teams or players or anyone else.
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On January 16 2013 19:19 Lysenko wrote:
It's on the team owners and players to maintain their own confidentiality. Any journalist will write about a story that a couple of third-parties will confirm. If the owners and players won't or can't keep their secrets confidential, they're at the mercy of any journalists out there. Welcome to the real world.
Edit: Alex's point of view is completely ridiculous. If a team wants a journalist's work to be beneficial to them, they have to control their own stories. It's not a journalist's job to work for the teams or players or anyone else.
Didn't watch the "show" and I don't want to waste time on the topic, but sometimes the leak comes from the organisation who lost the bid for a certain player. We see it a lot in football, with coaches and managers saying "no we won't sign this guy, apparently he has a verbal agreement with an other team". You can't be 100% leakproof in a competitive environnement.
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On January 16 2013 19:19 Lysenko wrote:
It's on the team owners and players to maintain their own confidentiality. Any journalist will write about a story that a couple of third-parties will confirm. If the owners and players won't or can't keep their secrets confidential, they're at the mercy of any journalists out there. Welcome to the real world.
Edit: Alex's point of view is completely ridiculous. If a team wants a journalist's work to be beneficial to them, they have to control their own stories. It's not a journalist's job to work for the teams or players or anyone else.
I haven't arrived yet to that part (i am just listening how Idra is saying that every terran in ladder is bad, even if thorzain is actually GM rank 2 lol). But i agree, he is a journalist, not your maiden.
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On January 16 2013 19:25 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Didn't watch the "show" and I don't want to waste time on the topic, but sometimes the leak comes from the organisation who lost the bid for a certain player. We see it a lot in football, with coaches and managers saying "no we won't sign this guy, apparently he has a verbal agreement with an other team". You can't be 100% leakproof in a competitive environnement.
Maybe that's true. So what? Part of dealing with the media ends up being understanding and accepting that there will be leaks.
The fact that the esports community has no experience dealing with the media doesn't make their pain the media's problem.
Edit: I've spent my adult life working in an industry that's the subject of significant, ongoing media attention. I've never been particularly the subject of that attention, but from the very first day the message was clear: "don't talk to the media, and if you have friends in the media, don't share secrets with them that they'd want to write about."
If you're an executive with a secret to keep, you have to pick and choose your real secrets and keep them within a circle that knows how to deal with the media or can be and is willing to be trained. It sounds like these organizations are just having team meetings where they tell everyone "oh, a, b, and c is happening" yet they place a strong premium on controlling the story. What?? It doesn't work like that!
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On January 16 2013 19:18 Mycl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:13 TheSoi wrote:On January 16 2013 19:10 zefreak wrote:
Are people watching the same video I am? They don't 'gang up' on slasher, the only one who gets personal is Alex and he did come across really poorly. SC reddit right now is a disgusting circle jerk of EG hate and exaggerations. That's how it is normally though, anything that can be taken and used to fuel the eternal EG hate flame is over dramatized, Beside's Incontrol's occasional comment it was Wheat, Slasher, Alex, and TB. TB was the only one to really make a worthwhile statement though. Most of the comments seem to be people copy+pasting their comments after the destiny incident. Its just recycling the same old shit
Ok to say that Slasher was ganged up on may have been a overexaggerated on reddit's part, but to even deny that he wasn't put on the spot by EG on an EG show is to be delusional. It's not like the EG players and Wheat are going to disagree what Alex had to say--they're on his payroll. This was a serious debate about a serious discussion right? Then people seemed to forget how iNcontroL goes, "TB just called you a tool and you said thanks, BOOOOOOOOOOOM!" Yea I guess reddit is the only place for circlejerking. It can't be this thread with all the posters with the EG logo in their signatures.
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Why is there an EG hate fest on reddit? Last I left off TB was on and basically "semi" agreed with and understood Alex Garfield's perspective.
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On January 16 2013 19:32 Angelbelow wrote:
Why is there an EG hate fest on reddit? Last I left off TB was on and basically "semi" agreed with and understood Alex Garfield's perspective.
Hey, I'm an EG fan. That doesn't mean that Alex's point of view on this issue isn't seriously confused about the obligations and role of the press.
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Why don't teams use Slasher to their benefit. Let say EG, TL or other big team reveal information that they have "new player joining team soon". Slasher would build up hype with speculation and other sites too. Even if someone leaks correct information it doesn't matter as there is so much speculation going on that nobody knows if that news is real. When team is ready to announce then it goes out like a bang.
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On January 16 2013 19:32 Angelbelow wrote:
Why is there an EG hate fest on reddit? Last I left off TB was on and basically "semi" agreed with and understood Alex Garfield's perspective.
Like you said he "semi" agreed on Alex's perspective. TB was also smart enough to not leak all the information to Slasher, i.e. Scarlett competing in the GSTL. I mean EG fanboys or not, are people really going to side with someone who didn't even know what embargo means and thought it meant "banning [slasher] from interviewing [EG] players"?
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On January 16 2013 19:29 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:25 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Didn't watch the "show" and I don't want to waste time on the topic, but sometimes the leak comes from the organisation who lost the bid for a certain player. We see it a lot in football, with coaches and managers saying "no we won't sign this guy, apparently he has a verbal agreement with an other team". You can't be 100% leakproof in a competitive environnement.
Maybe that's true. So what? Part of dealing with the media ends up being understanding and accepting that there will be leaks. The fact that the esports community has no experience dealing with the media doesn't make their pain the media's problem. Edit: I've spent my adult life working in an industry that's the subject of significant, ongoing media attention. I've never been particularly the subject of that attention, but from the very first day the message was clear: "don't talk to the media, and if you have friends in the media, don't share secrets with them that they'd want to write about." If you're an executive with a secret to keep, you have to pick and choose your real secrets and keep them within a circle that knows how to deal with the media or can be and is willing to be trained. It sounds like these organizations are just having team meetings where they tell everyone "oh, a, b, and c is happening" yet they place a strong premium on controlling the story. What?? It doesn't work like that!
Wow, you just disregarded a whole scenario where they don't have control over their information, and proceeded to rant on about how they should control their own information (while ignoring the scenario where they have no control over their information).
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If Slasher doesn't report news out of some mystical obligation to keep EG happy, and gets scooped, then he's doing a disservice to the people paying him to report eSports news.
Slasher is not only allowed to report on-the-record leaks, he is morally obligated to
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On January 16 2013 19:34 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:32 Angelbelow wrote:
Why is there an EG hate fest on reddit? Last I left off TB was on and basically "semi" agreed with and understood Alex Garfield's perspective. Hey, I'm an EG fan. That doesn't mean that Alex's point of view on this issue isn't seriously confused about the obligations and role of the press.
His point of view is basically don't leak information because teams put a lot of effort into creating great content to go along with their announcement. This would, in turn be beneficial to the teams creating this content because it creates more of a buzz which leads to more views. I don't disagree with that.
I will say that trying to "control" media/journalists is impossible, so I agree with you on that point. But I also think one journalists continuously leaking information after being told not to will lead to a freeze out of information for that individual. To me, that sounds like a natural progression of events.
They tried comparing this to professional sports, but we're not there yet. We don't generate the revenue that professional sports team generate because we don't have paid stadium games on a regular basis nor do we have cable/tv deals. Therefore, teams rely on these types of announcements to generate views.
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I hope Lo3 tomorrow will bring the discussion to the actual topic instead of the large masses of team bashing and nonsense being thrown about. There are many interesting discussions that can be had about this if people would get over themselves (on both sides)
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EPT
