|
On April 10 2011 12:59 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 12:57 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:53 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:49 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:42 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2011 12:18 kvn4444 wrote:
Don't see any reason to exclude any top competitor regardless of where they're from in an online tournament with this much money up for grabs. there isn't even a real skill difference between koreans and the rest. just look at tsl, gom wc, and even the gsl itself. If he wants something more homegrown just look to the mlg which had mostly NA competitors, and will probably stay that way as it's costly to travel to US to compete for a shot at 5k. What would it be like to spend that much going to korea to try out for GSL and maybe not even qualify or break into ro32 which doesn't even cover a one way ticket? Same thing? Think about it. I fail to see your point here. Sorry, would you mind explaining it to me please? If a player gets into say the Round of 32 in the GSL, they then have to MOVE to Korea to play in the GSL. If they then subsequently lose in any round by the round of 8, their take home does not cover the costs of moving to korea. Only the top 8 players make anything worth writing home about within the GSL and even then its only like $2,600. You really need to win the GSL to make moving there actually worth it for prize money. Unlike if a KR player flies to America to play in a MLG, if they win it then they are up a lot of money, if they took anything from 1 - 4 they made money at the event. If they lost on the other hand, made $0, then they are still up more money then a player that moved to korea to be knocked out in the round of 16. EDIT: To make it even worse, to get into S class, you need to move to Korea, and Get top 16 in A Class, then you need to win two BO3 vs a current S class player. Even if you win Class A you only get $1,500. And that has anything to do with excluding koreans from foreign tournaments because...? Because this was CatZ point about why Koreans should have to move to a western country if they want to compete in a western event. For a foreigner to compete in GSL its very expensive. For someone from KR to compete in a western event it costs nothing, but they have to experience a little lag. As well, I was responding to the post that I quoted, wasn't really talking to the thread as a whole.
NASL is not a western event, is an online event (until the offline top16). MLG is a western event. GSL is a kor event. They both have risks, and because the reward for GSL is higher, the risk is higher.
|
On April 10 2011 12:59 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 12:57 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:53 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:49 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:42 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2011 12:18 kvn4444 wrote:
Don't see any reason to exclude any top competitor regardless of where they're from in an online tournament with this much money up for grabs. there isn't even a real skill difference between koreans and the rest. just look at tsl, gom wc, and even the gsl itself. If he wants something more homegrown just look to the mlg which had mostly NA competitors, and will probably stay that way as it's costly to travel to US to compete for a shot at 5k. What would it be like to spend that much going to korea to try out for GSL and maybe not even qualify or break into ro32 which doesn't even cover a one way ticket? Same thing? Think about it. I fail to see your point here. Sorry, would you mind explaining it to me please? If a player gets into say the Round of 32 in the GSL, they then have to MOVE to Korea to play in the GSL. If they then subsequently lose in any round by the round of 8, their take home does not cover the costs of moving to korea. Only the top 8 players make anything worth writing home about within the GSL and even then its only like $2,600. You really need to win the GSL to make moving there actually worth it for prize money. Unlike if a KR player flies to America to play in a MLG, if they win it then they are up a lot of money, if they took anything from 1 - 4 they made money at the event. If they lost on the other hand, made $0, then they are still up more money then a player that moved to korea to be knocked out in the round of 16. EDIT: To make it even worse, to get into S class, you need to move to Korea, and Get top 16 in A Class, then you need to win two BO3 vs a current S class player. Even if you win Class A you only get $1,500. And that has anything to do with excluding koreans from foreign tournaments because...? Because this was CatZ point about why Koreans should have to move to a western country if they want to compete in a western event. For a foreigner to compete in GSL its very expensive. For someone from KR to compete in a western event it costs nothing, but they have to experience a little lag. As well, I was responding to the post that I quoted, wasn't really talking to the thread as a whole.
I can't understand how that should be an argument.
Because you have to make a commitment to play in GSL (moving there), Koreans should make a commitment to play in western leagues (even if there are online)? Why? Tit for tat?
|
On April 10 2011 12:59 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 12:57 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:53 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:49 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:42 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2011 12:18 kvn4444 wrote:
Don't see any reason to exclude any top competitor regardless of where they're from in an online tournament with this much money up for grabs. there isn't even a real skill difference between koreans and the rest. just look at tsl, gom wc, and even the gsl itself. If he wants something more homegrown just look to the mlg which had mostly NA competitors, and will probably stay that way as it's costly to travel to US to compete for a shot at 5k. What would it be like to spend that much going to korea to try out for GSL and maybe not even qualify or break into ro32 which doesn't even cover a one way ticket? Same thing? Think about it. I fail to see your point here. Sorry, would you mind explaining it to me please? If a player gets into say the Round of 32 in the GSL, they then have to MOVE to Korea to play in the GSL. If they then subsequently lose in any round by the round of 8, their take home does not cover the costs of moving to korea. Only the top 8 players make anything worth writing home about within the GSL and even then its only like $2,600. You really need to win the GSL to make moving there actually worth it for prize money. Unlike if a KR player flies to America to play in a MLG, if they win it then they are up a lot of money, if they took anything from 1 - 4 they made money at the event. If they lost on the other hand, made $0, then they are still up more money then a player that moved to korea to be knocked out in the round of 16. EDIT: To make it even worse, to get into S class, you need to move to Korea, and Get top 16 in A Class, then you need to win two BO3 vs a current S class player. Even if you win Class A you only get $1,500. And that has anything to do with excluding koreans from foreign tournaments because...? Because this was CatZ point about why Koreans should have to move to a western country if they want to compete in a western event. For a foreigner to compete in GSL its very expensive. For someone from KR to compete in a western event it costs nothing, but they have to experience a little lag. As well, I was responding to the post that I quoted, wasn't really talking to the thread as a whole.
It also costs Catz and all 49 contestants NOTHING as well.
|
On April 10 2011 13:07 00Visor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 12:59 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:57 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:53 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:49 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:42 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2011 12:18 kvn4444 wrote:
Don't see any reason to exclude any top competitor regardless of where they're from in an online tournament with this much money up for grabs. there isn't even a real skill difference between koreans and the rest. just look at tsl, gom wc, and even the gsl itself. If he wants something more homegrown just look to the mlg which had mostly NA competitors, and will probably stay that way as it's costly to travel to US to compete for a shot at 5k. What would it be like to spend that much going to korea to try out for GSL and maybe not even qualify or break into ro32 which doesn't even cover a one way ticket? Same thing? Think about it. I fail to see your point here. Sorry, would you mind explaining it to me please? If a player gets into say the Round of 32 in the GSL, they then have to MOVE to Korea to play in the GSL. If they then subsequently lose in any round by the round of 8, their take home does not cover the costs of moving to korea. Only the top 8 players make anything worth writing home about within the GSL and even then its only like $2,600. You really need to win the GSL to make moving there actually worth it for prize money. Unlike if a KR player flies to America to play in a MLG, if they win it then they are up a lot of money, if they took anything from 1 - 4 they made money at the event. If they lost on the other hand, made $0, then they are still up more money then a player that moved to korea to be knocked out in the round of 16. EDIT: To make it even worse, to get into S class, you need to move to Korea, and Get top 16 in A Class, then you need to win two BO3 vs a current S class player. Even if you win Class A you only get $1,500. And that has anything to do with excluding koreans from foreign tournaments because...? Because this was CatZ point about why Koreans should have to move to a western country if they want to compete in a western event. For a foreigner to compete in GSL its very expensive. For someone from KR to compete in a western event it costs nothing, but they have to experience a little lag. As well, I was responding to the post that I quoted, wasn't really talking to the thread as a whole. I can't understand how that should be an argument. Because you have to make a commitment to play in GSL (moving there), Koreans should make a commitment to play in western leagues (even if there are online)? Why? Tit for tat?
I don't know... I was just saying what CatZ was saying.
Personally, I like Koreans in the league because it makes a more enjoyable game for me.
I was just playing devils advocate mostly. Simply because from a business perspective they don't give a shit about anyone who already watches SC2... since we will tune in as long as there are games to watch.
They only care about getting new people watching SC2, which having koreans play doesn't help. Things that help are: Getting things on TV (won't happen for a long time), getting huge sponsors (slowly happening), having home grown heroes "So and So wins $100,000 playing SC2" Then people from his/her home town start to watch SC2 because someone they know won a lot of money doing it.
Only things that help, what ever I guess.
|
On April 10 2011 13:07 00Visor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 12:59 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:57 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:53 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:49 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:42 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2011 12:18 kvn4444 wrote:
Don't see any reason to exclude any top competitor regardless of where they're from in an online tournament with this much money up for grabs. there isn't even a real skill difference between koreans and the rest. just look at tsl, gom wc, and even the gsl itself. If he wants something more homegrown just look to the mlg which had mostly NA competitors, and will probably stay that way as it's costly to travel to US to compete for a shot at 5k. What would it be like to spend that much going to korea to try out for GSL and maybe not even qualify or break into ro32 which doesn't even cover a one way ticket? Same thing? Think about it. I fail to see your point here. Sorry, would you mind explaining it to me please? If a player gets into say the Round of 32 in the GSL, they then have to MOVE to Korea to play in the GSL. If they then subsequently lose in any round by the round of 8, their take home does not cover the costs of moving to korea. Only the top 8 players make anything worth writing home about within the GSL and even then its only like $2,600. You really need to win the GSL to make moving there actually worth it for prize money. Unlike if a KR player flies to America to play in a MLG, if they win it then they are up a lot of money, if they took anything from 1 - 4 they made money at the event. If they lost on the other hand, made $0, then they are still up more money then a player that moved to korea to be knocked out in the round of 16. EDIT: To make it even worse, to get into S class, you need to move to Korea, and Get top 16 in A Class, then you need to win two BO3 vs a current S class player. Even if you win Class A you only get $1,500. And that has anything to do with excluding koreans from foreign tournaments because...? Because this was CatZ point about why Koreans should have to move to a western country if they want to compete in a western event. For a foreigner to compete in GSL its very expensive. For someone from KR to compete in a western event it costs nothing, but they have to experience a little lag. As well, I was responding to the post that I quoted, wasn't really talking to the thread as a whole. I can't understand how that should be an argument. Because you have to make a commitment to play in GSL (moving there), Koreans should make a commitment to play in western leagues (even if there are online)? Why? Tit for tat?
Yes tit for tat.
|
On April 10 2011 13:07 00Visor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 12:59 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:57 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:53 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:49 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:42 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2011 12:18 kvn4444 wrote:
Don't see any reason to exclude any top competitor regardless of where they're from in an online tournament with this much money up for grabs. there isn't even a real skill difference between koreans and the rest. just look at tsl, gom wc, and even the gsl itself. If he wants something more homegrown just look to the mlg which had mostly NA competitors, and will probably stay that way as it's costly to travel to US to compete for a shot at 5k. What would it be like to spend that much going to korea to try out for GSL and maybe not even qualify or break into ro32 which doesn't even cover a one way ticket? Same thing? Think about it. I fail to see your point here. Sorry, would you mind explaining it to me please? If a player gets into say the Round of 32 in the GSL, they then have to MOVE to Korea to play in the GSL. If they then subsequently lose in any round by the round of 8, their take home does not cover the costs of moving to korea. Only the top 8 players make anything worth writing home about within the GSL and even then its only like $2,600. You really need to win the GSL to make moving there actually worth it for prize money. Unlike if a KR player flies to America to play in a MLG, if they win it then they are up a lot of money, if they took anything from 1 - 4 they made money at the event. If they lost on the other hand, made $0, then they are still up more money then a player that moved to korea to be knocked out in the round of 16. EDIT: To make it even worse, to get into S class, you need to move to Korea, and Get top 16 in A Class, then you need to win two BO3 vs a current S class player. Even if you win Class A you only get $1,500. And that has anything to do with excluding koreans from foreign tournaments because...? Because this was CatZ point about why Koreans should have to move to a western country if they want to compete in a western event. For a foreigner to compete in GSL its very expensive. For someone from KR to compete in a western event it costs nothing, but they have to experience a little lag. As well, I was responding to the post that I quoted, wasn't really talking to the thread as a whole. I can't understand how that should be an argument. Because you have to make a commitment to play in GSL (moving there), Koreans should make a commitment to play in western leagues (even if there are online)? Why? Tit for tat?
it is a somewhat legitimate argument but mind you it also costs Koreans a significant deal to move to compete in western events, especially something like the NASL which spans over 3 months. A season of GSL is like ~month, less top heavy prize distribution, + you get GOM support to help with housing (team house), expenses are cheaper in korea etc. Good luck trying to find housing and your way around for 3 months when there's no one to help you.
EDIT: I misinterpreted some of that
|
On April 10 2011 13:14 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 13:07 00Visor wrote:On April 10 2011 12:59 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:57 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:53 Insanious wrote:On April 10 2011 12:49 LagT_T wrote:On April 10 2011 12:42 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2011 12:18 kvn4444 wrote:
Don't see any reason to exclude any top competitor regardless of where they're from in an online tournament with this much money up for grabs. there isn't even a real skill difference between koreans and the rest. just look at tsl, gom wc, and even the gsl itself. If he wants something more homegrown just look to the mlg which had mostly NA competitors, and will probably stay that way as it's costly to travel to US to compete for a shot at 5k. What would it be like to spend that much going to korea to try out for GSL and maybe not even qualify or break into ro32 which doesn't even cover a one way ticket? Same thing? Think about it. I fail to see your point here. Sorry, would you mind explaining it to me please? If a player gets into say the Round of 32 in the GSL, they then have to MOVE to Korea to play in the GSL. If they then subsequently lose in any round by the round of 8, their take home does not cover the costs of moving to korea. Only the top 8 players make anything worth writing home about within the GSL and even then its only like $2,600. You really need to win the GSL to make moving there actually worth it for prize money. Unlike if a KR player flies to America to play in a MLG, if they win it then they are up a lot of money, if they took anything from 1 - 4 they made money at the event. If they lost on the other hand, made $0, then they are still up more money then a player that moved to korea to be knocked out in the round of 16. EDIT: To make it even worse, to get into S class, you need to move to Korea, and Get top 16 in A Class, then you need to win two BO3 vs a current S class player. Even if you win Class A you only get $1,500. And that has anything to do with excluding koreans from foreign tournaments because...? Because this was CatZ point about why Koreans should have to move to a western country if they want to compete in a western event. For a foreigner to compete in GSL its very expensive. For someone from KR to compete in a western event it costs nothing, but they have to experience a little lag. As well, I was responding to the post that I quoted, wasn't really talking to the thread as a whole. I can't understand how that should be an argument. Because you have to make a commitment to play in GSL (moving there), Koreans should make a commitment to play in western leagues (even if there are online)? Why? Tit for tat? it is a somewhat legitimate argument but the facts he's providing is complete bullcrap. obviously it's going to cost Koreans to move to compete in western events, especially something like the NASL which spans over 3 months. A season of GSL is like ~month, less top heavy prize distribution, + you get GOM support to help with housing (team house), expenses are cheaper in korea etc. Good luck trying to find housing and your way around for 3 months when there's no one to help you.
They help house maybe 2-3 players per season.
|
Koreans do purchase NA account to compete in NASL. And NASL wants people who have NA account. Koreans met requirement (careers and skills) and they are invited to NASL, that's it.
GSL code A quilifier need to be in top 200 in KR ladder and I believe this would definetly work out in NASL and any other tourney in NA.
|
I think most of the people miss the the point of the video, and just focus on the "commitement part". Actually, Stacraft was kinda like american football, praticed in only 1 country. Why? Because there is 1 league with only americans in it. So there is no point for an European to wake up in the morning with the dream of being a professional footballer right? That's about the same with Starcraft, but with koreans and foreigners.
Also, if there was a new league of american football in Europe and if like 50 % of the players were american. Basically, the team with the most americans in it would win, so it would surely not be popular in europe.
That's why it is important to have homeleague with about 5 to 10% of foreigners(koreans in that case). That percentage is perfect, because it forces local people to play at top level to compete vs the best of the world, while giving most of the pool to help local player continuing in their training, and eventually having more and more pro gamers in the country.
|
On April 10 2011 09:09 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
In general it is hard to outright disagree with what Catz is saying because at the basis of his argument is the fact that local stars need to rise up in order for this sport to grow. This is true no matter what way we will use to arrive at that point. It also is easier to create American stars in the US than it is to create Korean stars in the US. People like their national heroes.
However I think a lot of the arguments he builds on after this fact aren't that strong. I don't think the national league argument holds up as well in individual sports as he makes it seem.
The reason why he is only able to point at examples with team sports getting huge national leagues up is because often times teams get supported by people from a certain region within the nation and thus there is a lot of emotion attached to supporting them. Through that emotion you can fill up stadiums up to 100k people. You can see this in soccer, NBA, NHL etc.
In individual sports like tennis, bicycle racing, MMA, and StarCraft; people tend to attach themselves much more so to the individual itself and/or his nationality. You won't be able to fill up stadiums with supporters from the exact region Roger Federer is from. That attachment to regional teams in team sports, and that attachment to national players in individual sports, they are very important to the scene, but it is important that we do not mix them up and most importantly don't expect a national league for an individual sport being able to draw upon too much emotional support for their regional heroes.
A national league for an individual sport would mostly draw upon the viewers individual like or dislike for a player. Whether it is based on race or personality. If this argument is true then it makes the argument for national leagues much weaker because it would mean that people are able to start to like an individual player even if he is not from their nation. I believe this can be seen in Korean esports, TSL, IEM, MLG and basically any league that is going on right now.
National interest in an individual is still huge. Regional interest much less so.
Another argument would be that knowing how little the non-Koreans practice compared to their Korean counterparts, it kind of bugs me to see the need to ask for exclusive tournaments. The infrastructure may not be as good as in Korea with the teamhouses but it sure is a lot better than what the players are doing with it. Basically you shouldn't ask for easier leagues if you are not making the most out of your opportunities.
The biggest difference between the scenes is teamhouses and a cultural difference in attitude. Besides that though I Catz overrates the SC2 scene in Korea in terms of development and infrastructure. Very few players in Korea get the salaries the western progamers get, and the list of foreign pros on a salary is much larger than it is for Korea (the difference is enormous). The salary is a lot better outside of Korea than it is inside. Looking at what a noname Korean is putting into this game while he sleeps in bunkbeds and barely has money to do anything besides eating and sleeping, why exactly are we discussing how we can make things harder for Koreans?
Your post is very well thought of and very well written, but with all due respect I have to disagree with a couple of your points.
I have trouble with your separation between team sports and individual sports. Personnally I went to Spain during a Masters and the emotion and the love behind Nadal is incredible. Its what makes little kids want to start playing tennis. Same goes for Djokovic. This attachment is extremely important and in a lot of cases is what actually makes people start loving the sport. (Tennis in Serbia before djokovic was really not much, since hes become top 3 worldwide its what everyone talks about).
I think local heroes are one of the most important thing in the developpement of a sport in a certain region. Obviously its not necessarily what is going to ''fill up the stadium and get the money in'', but its certainly what will make the kids ''want to become like that guy'', which in turn, will create a need for infrastructure.
Now, local stars can still come out through the current system which includes Korean. Everytime a Foreigner beats a Korean he obviously becomes the local hero.The fact of the matter is still that due to the fact Koreans are a step ahead, it dimishes greatly the number of opportunities for these local heroes to be created.
Some people will argue that this rivalry is required for heroes to come out but I strongly disagree, just take Naniwa for example who, before MLG was just another professionnal player (and he was actually trashed a lot). Since his win at MLG though (which didnt include any Koreans), hes litterally became the European hero.
Another reason why I think these ''local heroes'' are so important in starcraft, which is also a reason why I think you cant compare it for other sports like soccer or tennis is the fact that outside Korea, video games are, in general, shunned upon.
Everytime a Korean wins a great tournament, its fair to say that everyone just has on their mind ''well whatever, its the korean culture that accepts games so they practice a lot''. When a foreigner finally wins though, people outside Korea can relate to that person. I think this last point answers your second argument. Basically, the way I see it, and the reason why foreigners dont practice as much as Koreans is because of the way theyre viewed by the society.
Everytime a Korean wins a tournament, this view of North American and European players will not change. Everytime a Foreigner wins, then suddenly people have someone to look up to.
I think its all about giving more opportunities to people over here, whether you believe they deserve it or not. Without these opportunities, I truely believe that what happened for SCBW will happen again, Korean will slowly get even more ahead, all the infrastructure will head towards there, and in the end the only interest will be for Korea.
Having Koreans in your tournament is what gets the money in the bank in the short run, but is it really whats the best for the development of the local scene, I think not. People constantly rely on Koreans in order to build the scene here, but what if we would rely on our own players for once in order to really build something.
|
On April 10 2011 12:35 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 11:19 kedinik wrote:On April 10 2011 11:08 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2011 10:42 kedinik wrote:
That was a bunch of rambling xenophobia that boils down to THEY TOOK OUR JOBS! You are either trolling or didn't bother to watch the video before typing that rubbish and pushing post. There was no mention of xenophobia or losing jobs. Watch the video this time. I guess you don't know what xenophobia is? It comes through in the subtext of what someone states, not really in explicit racism or anything like that. You have also missed a decent South Park episode if you don't know how THEY TOOK OUR JOBS relates to Catz's interview. I know what xenophobia is. This video didn't strike me as coming off that way. I don't see your reasoning past "That was a bunch of rambling xenophobia that boils down to THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!" bro to maybe draw the same conclusion you have. Please explain or stop trolling.
He's literally arguing that you shouldn't let dem furrinners take his job if they outperform him.
Does not get a lot more xenophobic/jingoistic without explicit unapologetic racism; does not really matter how he dresses up his financially selfish appeal to xenophobia as being somehow good for the growth of eSports.
Any shred of intellectual honesty evaporates when he says that it's fine for Europeans to compete in the NASL, just not Koreans. Presumably because he can beat most Europeans in a best-of-3.
|
I can understand why some people would be bitter. MLG is no different than the GSL as it's an onsite event (I cannot even call it a LAN event, because of B.Net O; ). Yes, Korea has been hosting big events since the Brood War days.
If they get a plane ticket and pay their way into a MLG event they have every right to compete as anyone else.
Online events are a different beast and GOM has already shown an interest in housing top foreigns so they can compete in Code A. We've come along way.
|
it's Catz opinion, but NASL is an attempt at starting up a sustainable business
for it to be seen as a legitimate competition focused on Starcraft 2, a wide range of players needs to be invited and NASL has done that by inviting Koreans, Europeans, and NA players.
if NASL can establish itself, it's impact on western e-sports will definitely be felt and help NA e-sports far more than inviting only players physically located in NA where overall player skill is less than EU and KR players.
|
I feel that as a spectator I'd rather NA leagues be exclusive to NA players(people living in NA at the time) because it's more easily relatable for the fan/spectator, not the gamer.
I think a key difference here is: people who play the game(gamers) want the best players in the tournament, any tournament, because exceptional play is above all else. But, spectators/fans/not-really-gamers want someone they can relate to on a more 'human' level.
Now, I love watching the best Koreans play. I really do. But, when the game ends and they go in for an interview I'm 99% of the time x'ing out the window or hitting mute because I don't speak Korean or care to sit through the translation.
|
Well said CatZ. Hear hear
|
On April 10 2011 13:50 GetToDaChopa wrote:
I feel that as a spectator I'd rather NA leagues be exclusive to NA players(people living in NA at the time) because it's more easily relatable for the fan/spectator, not the gamer.
I think a key difference here is: people who play the game(gamers) want the best players in the tournament, any tournament, because exceptional play is above all else. But, spectators/fans/not-really-gamers want someone they can relate to on a more 'human' level.
Now, I love watching the best Koreans play. I really do. But, when the game ends and they go in for an interview I'm 99% of the time x'ing out the window or hitting mute because I don't speak Korean or care to sit through the translation.
Can you explain what you mean by relate to them on a more human level? Seriously is this code word for they're the same skin color / share cultural similarities with me?
I don't understand why anyone who watches SC2 needs to relate to the players on a 'human' level whatever that means. Like in all sports, I get attach to players when I admire their play. I like Jaedong in Brood War because his mechanics were so good. I admired his will and dedication. That's how I start to form a connection with him and become a fan. You somehow need him to speak English and look like you or you'll shut out anything about him?
|
On April 10 2011 13:36 kedinik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 12:35 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2011 11:19 kedinik wrote:On April 10 2011 11:08 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2011 10:42 kedinik wrote:
That was a bunch of rambling xenophobia that boils down to THEY TOOK OUR JOBS! You are either trolling or didn't bother to watch the video before typing that rubbish and pushing post. There was no mention of xenophobia or losing jobs. Watch the video this time. I guess you don't know what xenophobia is? It comes through in the subtext of what someone states, not really in explicit racism or anything like that. You have also missed a decent South Park episode if you don't know how THEY TOOK OUR JOBS relates to Catz's interview. I know what xenophobia is. This video didn't strike me as coming off that way. I don't see your reasoning past "That was a bunch of rambling xenophobia that boils down to THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!" bro to maybe draw the same conclusion you have. Please explain or stop trolling. Does not get a lot more xenophobic/jingoistic without explicit unapologetic racism; does not really matter how he dresses up his financially selfish appeal to xenophobia as being somehow good for the growth of eSports.
He wasn't saying "Koreans shouldn't be in this ever!"
What he was saying, was that they should live here to do it.
The main reasoning(I think) behind that though, is they already have huge opportunities for major tournaments(GSL) which most foreigners simply can't have(It's not that easy to drop everything and go to SK).
He thinks that it should be more of a foreigner/people who don't have the opportunity to play in the GSL, because that will help the growth of E-sports by having more 'local heroes'.
More local heroes = more people from the west wanting to watch(This includes Europe, not just NA).
And, honestly, he's not far off. If you noticed, the days the GSL gets huge surges in viewers is when a foreigner is playing.
To simply write him off as being selfish and xenophobic is pretty ignorant and closed minded.
|
Signs are good for e-sports to take off. The thing is SC2 is a cheap sport to get behind and in NA thats deff what we could use in the rocky economy. Kinda similar to how BW took off in Korea. CatZ opinion is deffinetely spot on for it to suceed here we as a community really need to back it up for it to work here.
|
United States7483 Posts
The community will be way more awesome as a global one. All tournaments should be open to everyone, from all over the world. It's the best way to grow the community in general, and the best way to learn.
Koreans should be able to participate in non-korean tournaments, and vice versa. I personally think it'd be awesome if the GSL made it easier for people from other countries to participate, and it seems like they're trying their best so far.
|
It's hard for someone who doesn't regularly watch SC to really get into it when the best players don't speak their language or live in their culture. To the average NA/EU gamer, players like Nestea and MC just look like Korean robots who win games effortlessly because they practice 14 hours a day. Whether it's true or not, that's how it seems through the language/location barrier.
Someone like Jinro, on the other hand, is easy to sympathize with. No matter that he practices with MC and plays at a similar skill level, he has a personality that western players can easily recognize and learn to like. Simply put, it's easier for them to cheer and want to watch again the next time he plays. That's how sports develop a fanbase.
For western SC to grow, there needs to be more regular, live events like MLG. Online events can be great, but they don't capture the same feel that something like GSL does. Ideally, an offline NASL / IPL is the final goal to work towards. If Koreans want to come live in NA to compete in offline events, they're completely welcome, and we'll cheer for them in the same way that Koreans cheer for Jinro and Huk. But first, there needs to be a solid foundation of players that westerners can recognize and understand.
TLDR: Language / location is what western SC really needs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
