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On April 07 2011 22:25 sleepingdog wrote:
Wow this distribution is terrible. How the hell can there ever be an incentive to become a pro-gamer if only the very, very, very best are capable of making a living out of it?
The way as it is the already very good players will continue to strive for perfection, but the large amount of good, decent players will not be able to make enough money to pay for food and rent unless they get lucky once in a while. I've expected more from NASL.
I dunno if other people have noticed or not but I am getting the feeling that being an actual player is the worst profession in the SC2 scene. Look at what people who can drum up viewers on streaming sites/youtube make or what people get from coaching. No one in NA survives off winning alone.
Maybe there's a few guys in Europe who make most of their money off tournament wins, and definitely a handful in Korea. But here in NA, if you are strictly a player you are basically a sucker. You work ten times harder and get significantly less reward with almost no stability, and in many cases, people make money off your back by casting your games on their streams and uploading them on youtube and what have you. It seems really backwards but there you go
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wasn't it tyler and incontrol that were advocating better prize distribution in SotG? And I thought community was also behind such a thing. Just wonder if they ever listen to the top players/fans or are just doing their own thing to say that they have a better 1st place than GSL.
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IMO they need to come out and offer a real explanation for why they are choosing such terrible maps in the map pool. This hurts their tournament. I can't wait for the LR threads with everyone complaining about how terrible the maps are for 100 pages each time.
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On April 07 2011 16:13 Xeris wrote:
As a gamer you're not supposed to really live off prize money. You're supposed to live off the salary and such you get from your team. No professional athlete lives off prize winning in major sports like basketball, soccer, tennis, etc.
The winner of Grand Slams get like $1 million, but for all but the top 10 or so tennis players, tournament winnings alone can't give you a good living.
I think if you compare eSports to a more apt counterpart (certainly by prize money) you might find yourself wrong. I used to play on the Canadian pro golf tour. I had a sponsorship from a Callaway which supplied me with equipment, clothing and covered air fare and tournament entrance fees.
In order to make any money at all, I had to go out there and perform.
In agreement with Xeris though.....Pro gamers should be grateful that it's so easy to sell "coaching" for outrageous prices, and get decent ad streaming revenue. Its really tough to establish yourself in the same way in golf.
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really dont like the prize distribution where only top 4 get anything worthwhile after 3 months of hard work
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On April 07 2011 22:24 setzer wrote:
It looks like NASL's only goal is to boast about having a better 1st place prize over GSL.
Thats kinda the impression i get too.
I dont know if this "top-heavy" prize destribution is really what esports need.
I mean "50k first" sounds super special awesomesauce, but being 5th oder 9th in a 3month competition with 50 of the best players in the world and getting 1,5 or 0,5k $ respectively seems really like a joke.
Not to mention that nasl still hold far less prize money in comparison to gsl, but i guess that 1st-place-competition that nasl is looking for is more important than being a reasonable tournament from a players perspective.
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On April 07 2011 12:40 Butcherski wrote:typhon peaks and backwater gulch are fucking horrible blizzard maps ... why would you go ahead and ruin a perfectly good league 
My God, QQ. These maps aren't going to "ruin the league". Since they haven't seen much competitive play, I bet a lot of pros haven't figured out the best way to use the map to their respective race's advantage yet.
Give it some time, I'm sure they picked the maps for a reason.
...it's not like they put Steppes on there.
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I shudder to think what any sport would look like if they had to live off prize money. Give that a thought.
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On April 07 2011 22:25 sleepingdog wrote:
Wow this distribution is terrible. How the hell can there ever be an incentive to become a pro-gamer if only the very, very, very best are capable of making a living out of it?
The way as it is the already very good players will continue to strive for perfection, but the large amount of good, decent players will not be able to make enough money to pay for food and rent unless they get lucky once in a while. I've expected more from NASL.
Yeah, i thought the community and players had made thier wishes clear when GSL started with a extremely top-heavy prize pool in season one.
I really do not understand the point in having it that top heavy... Maybe for "wow"-effect but just market the total prize sum instead.
*edit* Ah, they wanted to have bigger nr.1 money than GSL... that is a pretty awwful reason in my opinion.
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On April 07 2011 22:53 DND_Enkil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 22:25 sleepingdog wrote:
Wow this distribution is terrible. How the hell can there ever be an incentive to become a pro-gamer if only the very, very, very best are capable of making a living out of it?
The way as it is the already very good players will continue to strive for perfection, but the large amount of good, decent players will not be able to make enough money to pay for food and rent unless they get lucky once in a while. I've expected more from NASL. Yeah, i thought the community and players had made thier wishes clear when GSL started with a extremely top-heavy prize pool in season one. I really do not understand the point in having it that top heavy... Maybe for "wow"-effect but just market the total prize sum instead. *edit* Ah, they wanted to have bigger nr.1 money than GSL... that is a pretty awwful reason in my opinion.
It's not even that the nr.1 gets that much what bothers me...I'm concerned about the nr.9-32. Nr.9-16 get lousy 500 bucks...that's just ridiculous, that does barely pay for one week living expenses.
And yes, players should be able to live off this money. We want to see them get better, which can't be done when they have to spend their whole time coaching instead of practicing.
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On April 07 2011 13:03 tertle wrote:
One problem I have weith NASL group play is if you are half way through season, lost everything with no real chance of making top 16, why bother training hard for specific matchups for rest of season? Probably better training for other tournaments.
I'm not saying people will throw games, but might not train as hard as they otherwise would.
During season play, only the top two from each division auto-qualify. #11-#30 have a mini-tourney to determine which five players also advance. And #1-#34 qualify for next season. There will be strong incentive to compete each week, even for those near the bottom.
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Don't really get why is BWG in the map pool, I would get it if it was some semi-pro tour, but all the people in NASL are pro players on teams that can get practice off ladder.
Also (this goes to all tournaments) I don't really get the Crossfire choice, since 99% of pro players I heard speaking about hate it (specialy p and z players).
On the bright side, I like the grps/maps rotation system, and the prize money seems kinda top heavy but I understand the motivation for that.
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Backwater gulch... You guys must really hate Zerg. Why not just have Delta or Steppes?
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Backwater Gulch? 4 real?
That map is like Steppes of War quality.
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The communities complaining about the mappool before the tournament has started... Use this information to your advantage and change the pool while you can! There's no reason to not add some iCCup maps, and I hope to God the current mappools maps are edited the way MLG was. If these are standard Blizzard maps you're going to destroy your reputation before things even get started.
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On April 07 2011 16:13 Xeris wrote:
As a gamer you're not supposed to really live off prize money. You're supposed to live off the salary and such you get from your team. No professional athlete lives off prize winning in major sports like basketball, soccer, tennis, etc.
The winner of Grand Slams get like $1 million, but for all but the top 10 or so tennis players, tournament winnings alone can't give you a good living.
Your tourney, your prize distribution. Yet you are wrong about tennis. Here's the tournament winnings for the first three months of 2011. #100 on the list has already earned $74,554 from 3 wins and 8 losses.
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Overall this is an okay map pool even though I could live without shattered temple and backwater.
Also about the prize pool, why compare it to the GS? It seems that its only purpose is to confuse people.
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Backwater Gulch? Is Blizzard picking your maps for you? Lol. That map is awful, but other than that, super excited to get this underway and watch the INSANE amount of games you guys have lined up for us! :D
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On April 07 2011 17:44 DarKFoRcE wrote:Oh my god. Please not backwater gulch.. and then already in the first week
On April 07 2011 23:19 LaLuSh wrote:
Backwater Gulch? 4 real?
That map is like Steppes of War quality.
Why not give good maps from good mapmakers a chance... only one iCCup map would please a lot of people and help the mapmaking community a ton.
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On April 07 2011 13:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 13:44 00Visor wrote:
Prizepool is a really big issue for the players. There are so many good competing players out there, who didn't get more than 1k in Prizes in the last half year. So if you win one big tournament you are good (moneywise) and else you can probably barely cover your expenses as a progamer (if at all).
It would be good for esports if more progamers can actually make a good living and therefore prizepools should be A LOT more even distributed.
Even GSL pays 1.3k just for participating in Code S. Thats only 1 day (2 if you count up/down matches).
In NASL you have to play 9 matches and 35 players will get nothing? Thats not how a proleague should be.
My take:
Eliminated in Groupstage: 750$
Ro16: 1500$
Ro8: 2500$
4th: 5000$
3rd: 7500$
2nd: 12500$
1st: 27250$ Well the basic answer to the stability issue of players' incomes is that sponsors of teams (and of specific players) ought to be providing it, not prize money from leagues. What leagues need to do is get the big numbers of viewers tuning in and give the players a chance to promote their sponsors when they win (let them mention sponsors interviews, let them show their jerseys in video interviews, etc). If the league isn't guaranteeing a stable income for its players, it needs to let players' sponsors get some major face time.
While it's true sponsors should be providing stability for players, there aren't really enough big sponsors to really support more than the top 5-10 guys in the country.. Plus I don't think it's too fair to have top players compete for 10 weeks and only the top 4 or so take home anything.
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EPT
