• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:49
CET 04:49
KST 12:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners9Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!33$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship6[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1438 users

Map/Micro Bot Hack? - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 18 Next All
AeonStrife
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States918 Posts
April 07 2011 15:03 GMT
#221
It upsets me to see stuff like this. During Brood war, there were pros caught hacking in a tournament. Its bound to happen again in SC2. I am pretty sure hackers are always one step ahead. Blizzard has to be 5 steps ahead of them then. But it seems banning in waves don't do much. We should make a thread about hacking in general, so we can get their attention.
Whats worse...US Poltics or SC2 Balance Talks...
ferry
Profile Joined December 2010
27 Posts
April 07 2011 15:07 GMT
#222
On April 07 2011 23:04 redviper wrote:
Looks like a network injection program. i wrote something similar for Lineage 2 a long time ago and it is a lot easier to design and a lot more versatile than input based bots. The only real difficulty is getting the protocol and decrypting the packets, something that can be done easily enough. And in SC2 it will be even easier because the server actually sends global information to the client, so you don't even have to guess anything.

Its a lot harder to detect also by warden because the bot doesn't have to live on the same machine, it can be on a different network altogether.


Yes, a lot of popular hacks also for Diablo 2 were based on network injection, so it wouldn't surprise me if this was the same. I guess what makes these hacks difficult is that first the SC2 client has to be reverse engineered (to a certain extent) in order to understand the packets sent between server/client. I'm pretty sure if Blizzard used an encryption algorithm to protect the packets sent between client and server, that would make network injections much harder to write; at least that's what the solution is in general for client-server applications.
genrlPatTen
Profile Joined January 2011
United States35 Posts
April 07 2011 15:28 GMT
#223
On April 08 2011 00:07 ferry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2011 23:04 redviper wrote:
Looks like a network injection program. i wrote something similar for Lineage 2 a long time ago and it is a lot easier to design and a lot more versatile than input based bots. The only real difficulty is getting the protocol and decrypting the packets, something that can be done easily enough. And in SC2 it will be even easier because the server actually sends global information to the client, so you don't even have to guess anything.

Its a lot harder to detect also by warden because the bot doesn't have to live on the same machine, it can be on a different network altogether.


Yes, a lot of popular hacks also for Diablo 2 were based on network injection, so it wouldn't surprise me if this was the same. I guess what makes these hacks difficult is that first the SC2 client has to be reverse engineered (to a certain extent) in order to understand the packets sent between server/client. I'm pretty sure if Blizzard used an encryption algorithm to protect the packets sent between client and server, that would make network injections much harder to write; at least that's what the solution is in general for client-server applications.



Yeah its pretty interesting what you can find out with a archive manager and a decompiler. Reverse engineering software has been around for ever, but when you get to the nuts and bolts, all software is just files executed on your computer, this machine code can be easily converted back to source(albeit semi-readable) and encryptions can be broken given enough time/power. The tools are out there to do it... It just makes me sad that people do. Whats the fun in having the computer play for you? So you can flex your e-peen to all your friends?
"Genius might be the ability to say a profound thing in a simple way."
MegaBUD
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada179 Posts
April 07 2011 15:47 GMT
#224
Woah... auto inject larva... maybe next expension...
TurpinOS
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada1223 Posts
April 07 2011 15:57 GMT
#225
This thread is pure gold.

The amount of people that are dead-on thinking that this was not hacking really made my day !

OT : didnt know hacks had gone so far, but i got to say it was pretty interesting to watch lol
http://eve.znaor.hr/pimpmydomi/
Elldar
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden287 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 16:35:58
April 07 2011 16:01 GMT
#226
He clearly has an bot program for the roach micro look att 17:57~15:58 he burrow a single roach while having all his roaches in one hotkey, simply not possible.

Btw, on another note why build more than 5 banelings when going for a banelings bust? Get ling speed and start massings lings instead of those extra banes they were not helping, not only is you opponent going to be prepared next time you attack. You are setting yourself in an all-in:ish situation. If you go for bane bust in zvz, the banes are there to kill his economy(drones) while you flood with lings to prevent him for building up drones again. This is not an early game pressure type of build, so following it up with an expansion is weird.
And this is the main cause for your loss, is the fact that the game is 21 minutes long, and you let him catch up to you the time he moves out he had more workers and even amount of roaches. Of course he hade perfect injects however that is something other player could have without hacking aswell. That purely rely on your opponents to remember the injection rather than actual apm. That he hacks is just an iceing on the cake, if you done the build correctly you would had won right then and there. Besides just listen to his response to your banelings bust,3evo and 3 spines, sound like a real low-class player, and he could not withstand a ling follow up.
Moonling
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States987 Posts
April 07 2011 16:16 GMT
#227
Its funny how easy this is to acquire, and use. The program code is interesting though
1% of koreans control 99% of starcraft winnings. #occupykorea.
lowlypawn
Profile Joined January 2009
United States241 Posts
April 07 2011 16:26 GMT
#228
Can't download replay

Could someone please upload it again?
lulzury
Profile Joined February 2010
United States236 Posts
April 07 2011 16:33 GMT
#229
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210057

Did anyone check this thing out? Maybe the guy was using some bot like the one used here.
SEn hwaiting!!!
Sv1
Profile Joined June 2010
United States204 Posts
April 07 2011 16:34 GMT
#230
This guy actually has an SC2 replayed account and has upped a couple of reps. The ones he loaded (early march) are indicative of your average diamond zerg, his camera is panning all over his base like a normal person would. Not just the hovering over his main hatch during the replay the OP posted.

What's funny is that HE has one he uploaded call "hacker" so I imagine this is just another frustrated zerg who decided to go the dark route of hacking.

At first I thought maybe "oh, it's zvz, maybe this is something they do since it usually starts banelings. Later on, regardless of the roach micro and the 700+ apm, he sneaks a few looks through the fog at your army before he leaves, your rocks by your 3rd to see if they are broken down or you expanded, and the outer rocks of his 3rd without looking actually scouting.

Replays like this always make me wonder how many hackers I have played/lost/beat
blackone
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1314 Posts
April 07 2011 16:37 GMT
#231
On April 08 2011 01:33 lulzury wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210057

Did anyone check this thing out? Maybe the guy was using some bot like the one used here.

Well did you check this out? That topic is about something created with the SC2 editor. It is an AI in a custom map, it is not a third party program and has nothing to do with hacking.
lulzury
Profile Joined February 2010
United States236 Posts
April 07 2011 17:48 GMT
#232
On April 08 2011 01:37 blackone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 01:33 lulzury wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210057

Did anyone check this thing out? Maybe the guy was using some bot like the one used here.

Well did you check this out? That topic is about something created with the SC2 editor. It is an AI in a custom map, it is not a third party program and has nothing to do with hacking.

Ahh, sorry. I did check out both videos and read the beginning xO and since he said that they were micro bots, I started thinking something along the lines of a runescape bot. Sorry. Yeah, so no way that could be related to this replay.
SEn hwaiting!!!
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
April 07 2011 19:00 GMT
#233
On April 07 2011 17:06 Digamma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2011 16:29 MayorITC wrote:
On April 07 2011 15:30 Digamma wrote:
On April 07 2011 14:14 Ryuu314 wrote:
On April 07 2011 13:51 Digamma wrote:
On April 07 2011 13:25 Navillus wrote:
On April 07 2011 13:09 Jonas wrote:
that micro was PRETTY cool, and definitely a bot. That accounts days are numbered

I think that there should be competitions where coders are challenged to make bot programs that play SC2 against other people's bot programs. It'd be a really interesting challenge, definitely. Could you program an AI to know a build order so well that it is never supply blocked, but never has more than 8 excess supply? Yes, you can program a bot to automatically burrow a roach when it has less than 20 health, but can you program it to "think"?


That would actually be very cool, as long as you mean a program that doesn't "cheat" (get any knowledge or ingame advantages that humans don't) I imagine making a good high-level AI is very hard, I mean Blizzard couldn't (ok was too lazy/pressed for time to) make an insane AI without it cheating by getting extra minerals and gas. With this we could get a legitimate insane AI and start a sort of Deep Blue Vs. Kasparov thing going, see if anyone can make an AI that can play with the pros.

Personally I think that it would be almost impossible to get a pro level AI, they would obviously have massive micro advantages (doing things like the hacker in OP but for every battle with every unit) but I don't think computers are ready to create or adapt strategies on the fly at a high enough level to beat pros, just look at chess which as almost infinitely fewer possible choices in a game than Starcraft and it still took a very long time for computers to reach human level of play.


Maybe because theres no one actually dedicated and paid to do such a thing? People have jobs. They cant work on it full time even if they wanted. Which so far i dont think anyone cares about making a AI to play starcraft when they wanna play themselves.

Clearly you guys have never ventured in the the BW forums. There is an annual SC:BW AI competition where teams (from universities all over USA) create bots to play SC:BW at a pretty high level. The winner of last year's competition was a Zerg AI created by the UC Berkeley team called the Overmind. It was so complex that it had the ability to learn to dodge storms. The Overmind had pretty basic learning capabilities. I'd recommend you to search it up and watch some of the videos. They're pretty darn impressive.

EDIT: I'll link some videos of some old BW AI's for those who are interested. If you want to check out the 2010 BW AI tourney here's the link: http://eis.ucsc.edu/StarCraftAICompetition
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcjQhig88wE
bot wraith micro against hydras



Please read properly before you respond. He is talking about a fully functional bot not programmed for ONE situation like your talking about but one that knows every single situation and can account for it to the level of a world class player. And able to beat players at the top of the world rankings.


I suggest you take your own advice. He IS talking about a fully functional bot.


The video was of unit micro in a static enviroment. The other guy gave the example of deep blue. Have these "amazing" bots beat any of the best players in the world in bw?

I suggest you click on the eis.ucsc.edu link I gave you. That contains videos of fully functional bots playing against one another. At that webpage, there is also another link to the winning bot (the Overmind) playing (and beating) a human player (Oriol) who had been to the 2009 WCG.

I didn't want to link too many videos but since some people just can't read I will
+ Show Spoiler +
DL Overmind v. Oriol BW replays:
http://eis.ucsc.edu/sites/default/files/OriolExhibition.zip

2 bots playing one another:

HEROwithNOlegacy
Profile Joined June 2010
United States850 Posts
April 07 2011 20:10 GMT
#234
I was watching this and drinking a soda and I almost dropped my soda on the floor when I saw him kill you with roaches against your roach, spine crawler, infestor composition with that burrow micro. He's APM during that was 700 and that burrow micro seemed un-human, I am thinking that he is indeed hacking but wow, good find. Very fishy.
SlayerS Fighting!
redviper
Profile Joined May 2010
Pakistan2333 Posts
April 07 2011 20:12 GMT
#235
Whats the fun in having the computer play for you? So you can flex your e-peen to all your friends?


Actually for L2 atleast, I found it atleast as much fun to write the bot than play the game myself. Figuring out the best ways for the AI to deal with situations is really interesting, and keeping up with the changes in protocol every 6 months was also quite fun.

And plus there is the money incentive. Imagine if you made the perfect bot, undetectable, flawless. You could sell thousands of copies and easily make a living wage for a couple of years.
TurpinOS
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada1223 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 20:16:06
April 07 2011 20:14 GMT
#236
How are people just ''thinking'' he is hacking, I would gladly like an explanation on how you burrow roaches without selecting them and how you inject with queens also without selecting them.

this cant be serious

theres nothing ''fishy'' to this, I mean seriously, what do people need more...are you only going to agree that hes hacking if he starts making battlecuirsers when hes playing protoss ? or is that also just fishy...
http://eve.znaor.hr/pimpmydomi/
AGIANTSMURF
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1232 Posts
April 07 2011 20:16 GMT
#237
Woah crazy stuff right there......

Maybe he is just a super mega uber pro smurfing? whats account/statistics look like?
Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you.....
Phayze
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2029 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 20:48:58
April 07 2011 20:17 GMT
#238
Wow watched the replay, this is quite similar to automine and other hacks that were prevalent in Broodwar. Except the programmer took it a dozen steps further and made auto inject auto burrow. Not going to lie it's quite an interesting bit of programming. If this is an isolated incident, banning the creator wont actually accomplish anything because if he's a programmer he will not have a problem buying multiple accounts for himself, If it's released online privately it again wont matter (low userbase) as he will use it to support a potential private cheat business. Both of these I feel will not have a large impact on players. However if this hack is already public, I feel it's going to hit SC2 hard like some of the other maphacks. I find the publicity some of these map hackers have gotten as of late are promoting this evolution of SC2 hacks. Really a shame. Really could use a replay flag system like bwchart had, but server sided on blizzards servers. I think blizzard could handle the bandwidth and computing requirements.
Proud member of the LGA-1366 Core-i7 4Ghz Club
Chahta
Profile Joined February 2011
United States148 Posts
April 07 2011 20:50 GMT
#239
On April 08 2011 05:17 Phayze wrote:
Wow watched the replay, this is quite similar to automine and other hacks that were prevalent in Broodwar. Except the programmer took it a dozen steps further and made auto inject. Not going to lie it's quite an interesting bit of programming. If this is an isolated incident, banning the creator wont actually accomplish anything because if he's a programmer he will not have a problem buying multiple accounts for himself, If it's released online privately it again wont matter (low userbase) as he will use it to support a potential private cheat business. Both of these I feel will not have a large impact on players. However if this hack is already public, I feel it's going to hit SC2 hard like some of the other maphacks. I find the publicity some of these map hackers have gotten as of late are promoting this evolution of SC2 hacks. Really a shame. Really could use a replay flag system like bwchart had, but server sided on blizzards servers. I think blizzard could handle the bandwidth and computing requirements.

Except every bronze league player who loses a game ever will instantly flag it causing a flood. Perhaps require an actual explanation of why you think the person is hacking...Don't get me wrong I want hackers out of the game, or at least confined to playing other hackers...but a simple flag system would probably just result in problems :/
I accidentally whole f*cking base
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
April 07 2011 20:56 GMT
#240
Deffinetly hack no doubts, I must say he wasn't really good with hiding that. That burrow micro part, queen larvae inject and also building 3 evos to block his mineral lines before he even knew or saw you were going banelings pretty much speaks for itself.

I don't know about other people but in my opinion is very easy to spot, this one was crystal clear.
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 18 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Korean StarCraft League
03:00
Week 82
davetesta69
HKG_Chickenman55
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 184
Nina 138
ProTech112
StarCraft: Brood War
Icarus 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever312
NeuroSwarm79
LuMiX0
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0650
amsayoshi36
Other Games
summit1g13990
tarik_tv11891
JimRising 479
FrodaN145
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick984
Counter-Strike
PGL146
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt481
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
6h 11m
IPSL
14h 11m
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
LAN Event
14h 11m
Lambo vs Clem
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs TBD
Zoun vs TBD
BSL 21
16h 11m
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs OyAji
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
19h 11m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 6h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 8h
IPSL
1d 14h
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
LAN Event
1d 14h
BSL 21
1d 16h
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.