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Map/Micro Bot Hack? - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Ponyo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1231 Posts
April 07 2011 09:13 GMT
#201
damn, that is redonkulous! Gratz on 1000 posts Marradron
ponyo.848
fizzgig_
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden162 Posts
April 07 2011 09:21 GMT
#202
Just to give some context: the selection of the Queen happens in the same frame as the inject. That's impossibly fast. To add insult to injury, he then selects the Hatchery or other objects in the same frame. That's 1/16th of a (game) second...

Example:
+ Show Spoiler +

Selection 05:21.3 5142 Samyaza: Selection is now Queen ×1 (bank 10)
TargetAbility 05:21.3 5142 Samyaza: Targeting object Hatchery (0x2240001) with ability cast_larva
Selection 05:21.3 5142 Samyaza: Selection is now Hatchery ×1 (bank 10)
VoidEU
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden24 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 09:30:01
April 07 2011 09:27 GMT
#203
On April 07 2011 14:45 mikell wrote:
isn't warden supposed to detect all dll injections? this kind of shit makes me wonder how legitimate some high ranked players are.


Thing is. Antivirus programs, streaming programs.. In fact, tons of programs does dllinjections. Its not a difficult task to find dll injects for warden. However if they would ban everyone that does dll injections 100% of the players would be banned.

So what they do is they scan for flagged programs, that warden know is a hack. This, in turn, makes private hacks completley safe against warden. So as long as you have written it yourself and haven't shared with anyone there is no way for warden to actually know that you are cheating, unless you change the sourcecode of a scanned area. And it cant scan the entire sourcecode since that would slow down the game too much. (this would for example be the code that checks if an addon is a blizzard addon or userbuilt addon in wow, thus making it quite much trickier to access the blizzard protected APIs like cast spell by name)

This is how warden works in wow and I would assume its the same for sc2.
It's a trap!
Valckrie
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom533 Posts
April 07 2011 09:29 GMT
#204
There's macro bots out there that warden haven't detected... people use to to inject flawlessly and do roach burrow perfectly like in the replay. All we can hope for is that Blizzard bans these people since new hacks are always getting released =\
Fear is a 4 letter word. Why be afraid?
killamane
Profile Joined May 2010
United States138 Posts
April 07 2011 09:58 GMT
#205
imo its obvious that the burrowing roaches and the queen injects are a hack. if u look he never selects them(the roaches burrow without being selected, queen never is selected while injecting) in the replay, his screen never looks at his queen or hatch while injecting. if blizzard sees this replay they should ban his account. maybe the 60 dollars will make him reconcider hacking.
Lanfire
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands151 Posts
April 07 2011 10:04 GMT
#206
Does Blizzard ban if a hack is obvious on a replay or is it like Valve ( counter-strike etc) and only ban if they get caught by their anti cheat program.
¯(°_o)/¯
nalgene
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada2153 Posts
April 07 2011 10:11 GMT
#207
On April 07 2011 18:58 killamane wrote:
imo its obvious that the burrowing roaches and the queen injects are a hack. if u look he never selects them(the roaches burrow without being selected, queen never is selected while injecting) in the replay, his screen never looks at his queen or hatch while injecting. if blizzard sees this replay they should ban his account. maybe the 60 dollars will make him reconcider hacking.

It's possible to give the inject command via the minimap if they took control of the queen ( which he might've done so )
Year 2500 Greater Israel ( Bahrain, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen )
fieldy2k5
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1 Post
April 07 2011 10:22 GMT
#208
On April 07 2011 19:11 nalgene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2011 18:58 killamane wrote:
imo its obvious that the burrowing roaches and the queen injects are a hack. if u look he never selects them(the roaches burrow without being selected, queen never is selected while injecting) in the replay, his screen never looks at his queen or hatch while injecting. if blizzard sees this replay they should ban his account. maybe the 60 dollars will make him reconcider hacking.

It's possible to give the inject command via the minimap if they took control of the queen ( which he might've done so )

But he never selected a Queen to do so.
goneim
Profile Joined May 2010
China201 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 12:13:40
April 07 2011 11:46 GMT
#209
Wtf, up to about 950APM (~=15 actions per second) at 13. minute mark?!
Edit: I searched for "Samyaza" on sc2ranks.com. It seems this guy ladders both on NA and SEA server. According to battle.net he has achieved a 19/2 win-to-loss-ratio on SEA and 17/8 on NA recently (since about April 4/3) while laddering. Since April 5. he has lost altogether only three times.
Day[9] Fan Club Member #516
Dsn4001
Profile Joined July 2010
Korea (South)106 Posts
April 07 2011 11:57 GMT
#210
I took a look at the actual program to see how it works. It's really interesting, it even obfuscates its processes/names to protect itself from Blizz just banning based on program flags.

The program in no way interacts with the SC2.exe, and there are ZERO .dll injections or any other kind of code interference. All it does is just read SC2.exe memory and display it in a overlay. I'm really suprised Blizzard didn't do anything to make it harder for programs to simply read off game data like this. Seems like lazy coding on their part.

Honestly there is no way Warden will be able to detect this hack without Blizz breaking privacy laws. The only way Blizz can possibly prevent this is to change the way the SC2.exe stores game information in its memory.

Kantutan
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1319 Posts
April 07 2011 11:58 GMT
#211
On April 07 2011 19:22 fieldy2k5 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2011 19:11 nalgene wrote:
On April 07 2011 18:58 killamane wrote:
imo its obvious that the burrowing roaches and the queen injects are a hack. if u look he never selects them(the roaches burrow without being selected, queen never is selected while injecting) in the replay, his screen never looks at his queen or hatch while injecting. if blizzard sees this replay they should ban his account. maybe the 60 dollars will make him reconcider hacking.

It's possible to give the inject command via the minimap if they took control of the queen ( which he might've done so )

But he never selected a Queen to do so.


I'm really not sure if you can completely override the UI and enter commands by other means. My bet is that the selection window simply cannot process 600apm so you only get to see a fraction of what he's actually doing.
Marradron
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands1586 Posts
April 07 2011 12:01 GMT
#212
On April 07 2011 20:58 Kantutan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2011 19:22 fieldy2k5 wrote:
On April 07 2011 19:11 nalgene wrote:
On April 07 2011 18:58 killamane wrote:
imo its obvious that the burrowing roaches and the queen injects are a hack. if u look he never selects them(the roaches burrow without being selected, queen never is selected while injecting) in the replay, his screen never looks at his queen or hatch while injecting. if blizzard sees this replay they should ban his account. maybe the 60 dollars will make him reconcider hacking.

It's possible to give the inject command via the minimap if they took control of the queen ( which he might've done so )

But he never selected a Queen to do so.


I'm really not sure if you can completely override the UI and enter commands by other means. My bet is that the selection window simply cannot process 600apm so you only get to see a fraction of what he's actually doing.


They either used direct input. (like BWAPI for BW which gave direct control of every single unit every frame at once). Or used a graphics pipeline with some kind of automated mouse control. By the sophistication, speed and multitasking it appears there's something like BW:API floating arround for SC2.
nyc863
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
200 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 13:06:44
April 07 2011 13:05 GMT
#213
it is quite sad and what is worse is if it is just scanning the graphics pipeline or the sc2 memory image, then there is no detection possible, detection would be allowing blizzard to inspect your whole computer and anyway could be easily circumvented by an updated hack faster than blizzard could roll out new versions of sc2.exe

Even the giveaway - perfect burrow micro, very high APM, could be suppressed with options if it ever became a tell and a problem for the player. The bot could just pad out your APM to whatever you want. Eg, you select "give me 200 APM". It could also do imperfect borrow micro, imperfect enough to be plausible but way better than the natural skill of the player.

Prediction: the hacks will be several steps ahead of blizzard and will also be increasingly hard to detect even when looking at a replay file other than a vague suspicion that a person playing that well should be in tournaments.

Pretty sad, really but was there a single popular PC multiplayer game that completely resisted cheats?
redviper
Profile Joined May 2010
Pakistan2333 Posts
April 07 2011 14:04 GMT
#214
Looks like a network injection program. i wrote something similar for Lineage 2 a long time ago and it is a lot easier to design and a lot more versatile than input based bots. The only real difficulty is getting the protocol and decrypting the packets, something that can be done easily enough. And in SC2 it will be even easier because the server actually sends global information to the client, so you don't even have to guess anything.

Its a lot harder to detect also by warden because the bot doesn't have to live on the same machine, it can be on a different network altogether.
goiflin
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1218 Posts
April 07 2011 14:11 GMT
#215
On April 07 2011 22:05 nyc863 wrote:
it is quite sad and what is worse is if it is just scanning the graphics pipeline or the sc2 memory image, then there is no detection possible, detection would be allowing blizzard to inspect your whole computer and anyway could be easily circumvented by an updated hack faster than blizzard could roll out new versions of sc2.exe

Even the giveaway - perfect burrow micro, very high APM, could be suppressed with options if it ever became a tell and a problem for the player. The bot could just pad out your APM to whatever you want. Eg, you select "give me 200 APM". It could also do imperfect borrow micro, imperfect enough to be plausible but way better than the natural skill of the player.

Prediction: the hacks will be several steps ahead of blizzard and will also be increasingly hard to detect even when looking at a replay file other than a vague suspicion that a person playing that well should be in tournaments.

Pretty sad, really but was there a single popular PC multiplayer game that completely resisted cheats?


AFAIK, Guild Wars had bots, but nothing outside of that, but the game, due to the way it works, wouldn't provide any advantages for faster inputs or whatever, and you can't trick the game into teleporting you like you can in Counter Strike, since player locations/stats/etc. are all calculated server side, and sent to the client.

It sucks, but you're right, there's probably never going to be a way to fix this, especially if the people doing it are privately writing their own programs.
dakalro
Profile Joined September 2010
Romania525 Posts
April 07 2011 14:43 GMT
#216
No really, of course he selects the queen, hatchery and roaches. The bot just does it so fast that it doesn't get rendered. The game isn't 1<->1 relation between engine and graphics. The engine moves a lot faster than it can draw so the replay will never show those actions (when the bot takes over the APM is probably in the thousands - 3k+ - for a couple of actions).
Sensator
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia377 Posts
April 07 2011 14:55 GMT
#217
Yeah after a long search (by long I mean googling SC2 hacks), I found exactly what these hacks are capable of. Check out the d3scene sc2 section :S.
pandaburn
Profile Joined November 2010
United States89 Posts
April 07 2011 14:55 GMT
#218
On April 07 2011 19:22 fieldy2k5 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2011 19:11 nalgene wrote:
On April 07 2011 18:58 killamane wrote:
imo its obvious that the burrowing roaches and the queen injects are a hack. if u look he never selects them(the roaches burrow without being selected, queen never is selected while injecting) in the replay, his screen never looks at his queen or hatch while injecting. if blizzard sees this replay they should ban his account. maybe the 60 dollars will make him reconcider hacking.

It's possible to give the inject command via the minimap if they took control of the queen ( which he might've done so )

But he never selected a Queen to do so.

This has been addressed. He did select the queen, but injected and then selected something else within the same frame, so you won't ever see the queen highlighted.
TrANCE,
Profile Joined December 2010
301 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 15:00:34
April 07 2011 14:57 GMT
#219
Your WTF said it all for me. Having played at the top of the ladder i can say i have never seen anything come close to that macroing whilst borrowing roaches with them not selected i smell foul play.
Is this the guy http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2602385/1/Samyaza/

If it is read hes post history on the bnet forum exspecially the one bad mouthing Tl and its moderator
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
April 07 2011 14:58 GMT
#220
Those who is wondering if some pros might do it, I think some might be and is using/tried it. But most of them who is competing on a LAN or so can't possibly do this, I mean like MLG for a instance or GSL. I don't think they would be able to get away with such things unnoticed. So maybe for the guys playing offline tournaments all the time this could work - if they are very careful and not like this guy.
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
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