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On April 07 2011 11:03 kinetic_skink wrote:He likes TL: ------------------------------------------------ http://us.battle.net/sc2/en-us/forum/topic/2353105723?page=2#25TL.net is a great place to lurk and use the search feature.. I use the search feature a lot...But I would never ever post on a forum run by a bunch of crappy moderators. Most of them moderating TL.net are just too up themselves for their own good. A bit like gamefaqs.While a posh girl who thinks she is too great might keep looking into a mirror.TL.net moderators go around thinking about how their bans really mean something.
countered here:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2353105723?page=4#63
also bringing the discussion off-topic is another thing on the list of warning/bannable so be careful lol
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that was crazy micro...i wish i could do that 
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Its 100% a hack. If you look closely, Every Single Roach pops back up once it regens health back up to 137. Without fail, if you watch closely on Normal speed, and repeatedly click the play/pause menu, you can see roaches move around underground, and Right as they get back up to 137 health, they pop back up. No human would be that observant of each of his roaches health to the point where he can unborrow them at the perfect times.
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I honestly use macros since sc1(add w3 to the mix). I like the part where I outsmart my opponent and I just can't play for ten hours straight anymore (I've got some responsabilities) but this is over the top lol.
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The 3 evo move before he sees banelings indicates definitely a map hack. But his drone control indicates that was a manual move.
The fact that during the roach fight he has ALL ROACHES SELECTED and manages to burrow just 1 in orange health and move it forward at the same time is absolutely impossible. It seems like has has to have the units selected for the program to micro it.
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Good find. Def a hack, it is physically impossible to do that kind of micro. (Save yourself the argument JD fans)
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I used to micro a chen with 4 centaurs perfectly @ dota.
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Blizzard always find the hackers eventually. Instead of banning them, they should write a program so for a player using bots, 45 sec into the game 1000 Bannelings spawn and roll into their base.
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Blizzard will do what they've always done: wait a year, and suddenly hand out mass bans.
So hackers have a harder time figuring out how they got caught.
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Its kind of sad blizzard can't even control these public hacks, where they are free to download it and see exactly how it works. Makes you wonder how many private hackers go unnoticed.
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that micro was PRETTY cool, and definitely a bot. That accounts days are numbered
I think that there should be competitions where coders are challenged to make bot programs that play SC2 against other people's bot programs. It'd be a really interesting challenge, definitely. Could you program an AI to know a build order so well that it is never supply blocked, but never has more than 8 excess supply? Yes, you can program a bot to automatically burrow a roach when it has less than 20 health, but can you program it to "think"?
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On April 07 2011 13:09 Jonas  wrote:that micro was PRETTY cool, and definitely a bot. That accounts days are numbered I think that there should be competitions where coders are challenged to make bot programs that play SC2 against other people's bot programs. It'd be a really interesting challenge, definitely. Could you program an AI to know a build order so well that it is never supply blocked, but never has more than 8 excess supply? Yes, you can program a bot to automatically burrow a roach when it has less than 20 health, but can you program it to "think"?
That would actually be very cool, as long as you mean a program that doesn't "cheat" (get any knowledge or ingame advantages that humans don't) I imagine making a good high-level AI is very hard, I mean Blizzard couldn't (ok was too lazy/pressed for time to) make an insane AI without it cheating by getting extra minerals and gas. With this we could get a legitimate insane AI and start a sort of Deep Blue Vs. Kasparov thing going, see if anyone can make an AI that can play with the pros.
Personally I think that it would be almost impossible to get a pro level AI, they would obviously have massive micro advantages (doing things like the hacker in OP but for every battle with every unit) but I don't think computers are ready to create or adapt strategies on the fly at a high enough level to beat pros, just look at chess which as almost infinitely fewer possible choices in a game than Starcraft and it still took a very long time for computers to reach human level of play.
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I've done some thinking about whether an ai could compete with pros, and I think maybe it could with some abusing. Imagine if the ai goes blink stalkers. With perfect micro. Never takes health damage. I don't know, it seems like there is some possibility they could compete.
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You need to have one heck of a dynamic program in order to compete against professional players with an AI >.<
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On April 07 2011 13:25 Navillus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 13:09 Jonas wrote:that micro was PRETTY cool, and definitely a bot. That accounts days are numbered I think that there should be competitions where coders are challenged to make bot programs that play SC2 against other people's bot programs. It'd be a really interesting challenge, definitely. Could you program an AI to know a build order so well that it is never supply blocked, but never has more than 8 excess supply? Yes, you can program a bot to automatically burrow a roach when it has less than 20 health, but can you program it to "think"? That would actually be very cool, as long as you mean a program that doesn't "cheat" (get any knowledge or ingame advantages that humans don't) I imagine making a good high-level AI is very hard, I mean Blizzard couldn't (ok was too lazy/pressed for time to) make an insane AI without it cheating by getting extra minerals and gas. With this we could get a legitimate insane AI and start a sort of Deep Blue Vs. Kasparov thing going, see if anyone can make an AI that can play with the pros. Personally I think that it would be almost impossible to get a pro level AI, they would obviously have massive micro advantages (doing things like the hacker in OP but for every battle with every unit) but I don't think computers are ready to create or adapt strategies on the fly at a high enough level to beat pros, just look at chess which as almost infinitely fewer possible choices in a game than Starcraft and it still took a very long time for computers to reach human level of play.
Maybe because theres no one actually dedicated and paid to do such a thing? People have jobs. They cant work on it full time even if they wanted. Which so far i dont think anyone cares about making a AI to play starcraft when they wanna play themselves.
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That was really crazy, its like he suddenly shifted gears into flawless macro and micro with 500+ APM steady no problem, with him being diamond is even more suspicious.
Just watching the end he was microing perfectly, literally perfect injects at the same time without his camera moving back etc.. pretty obvious something is foul play, im not sure what program could do all that honestly.
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Holy crap. That's just disgusting. It's so blatantly obvious. It's like the old immortal warp-in.
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On April 07 2011 13:51 Digamma wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 13:25 Navillus wrote:On April 07 2011 13:09 Jonas wrote:that micro was PRETTY cool, and definitely a bot. That accounts days are numbered I think that there should be competitions where coders are challenged to make bot programs that play SC2 against other people's bot programs. It'd be a really interesting challenge, definitely. Could you program an AI to know a build order so well that it is never supply blocked, but never has more than 8 excess supply? Yes, you can program a bot to automatically burrow a roach when it has less than 20 health, but can you program it to "think"? That would actually be very cool, as long as you mean a program that doesn't "cheat" (get any knowledge or ingame advantages that humans don't) I imagine making a good high-level AI is very hard, I mean Blizzard couldn't (ok was too lazy/pressed for time to) make an insane AI without it cheating by getting extra minerals and gas. With this we could get a legitimate insane AI and start a sort of Deep Blue Vs. Kasparov thing going, see if anyone can make an AI that can play with the pros. Personally I think that it would be almost impossible to get a pro level AI, they would obviously have massive micro advantages (doing things like the hacker in OP but for every battle with every unit) but I don't think computers are ready to create or adapt strategies on the fly at a high enough level to beat pros, just look at chess which as almost infinitely fewer possible choices in a game than Starcraft and it still took a very long time for computers to reach human level of play. Maybe because theres no one actually dedicated and paid to do such a thing? People have jobs. They cant work on it full time even if they wanted. Which so far i dont think anyone cares about making a AI to play starcraft when they wanna play themselves.
Clearly you guys have never ventured in the the BW forums. There is an annual SC:BW AI competition where teams (from universities all over USA) create bots to play SC:BW at a pretty high level. The winner of last year's competition was a Zerg AI created by the UC Berkeley team called the Overmind. It was so complex that it had the ability to learn to dodge storms. The Overmind had pretty basic learning capabilities. I'd recommend you to search it up and watch some of the videos. They're pretty darn impressive.
EDIT: I'll link some videos of some old BW AI's for those who are interested. If you want to check out the 2010 BW AI tourney here's the link: http://eis.ucsc.edu/StarCraftAICompetition
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcjQhig88wE
bot wraith micro against hydras
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This is really scary imo. It disgusts me that people can actually cheat to such an extent. I hope blizzard finds some way to make this type of thing impossible.
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Indeed it's hacking, all his injections are PERFECT, as he injects without even needing to select the queen (so it's not even minimap injection).
Also, the roaches burrow individually without even them being selected individually.
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EPT
