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On February 27 2011 10:20 cnas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 10:02 DeltruS wrote:On February 27 2011 09:51 cnas wrote:
I'm so fking disappointed. Every time it rolled shak it was almost certain to be a fair game. I've been laddering today and every single game on the new maps i've been cheesed.
Is Bliz blind? Can't they see the awesome games from GSL on shak? Most of the great games from GSL on the Bliz maps have been on shak.
Bliz refusal to add good maps is starting to feel like New Coke to me. When are they gonna stop and say: "what the hell are we doing? let's just give them good maps." I think the high cheese rate is due to the low amount of understanding of the maps. People aren't comfortable playing macro games on them. I just really wish they had a bigger map pool with ICcup and GSL maps. They would make ladder so much fun instead of work. Yeah, that's prolly a big part of it tbh. But the naturals on backwater is annoying for two reasons. First of all, i spawned so i had to hatch towards my enemy, while his natural was faced in the other way (like lost temple in wc3). Also the ramp leading down to the hatch is so far away. Also got a game with close pos on slag pit and i haven't done the maths but it felt like half the rush distance of steppes. Sigh... Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 10:06 blade55555 wrote:On February 27 2011 10:02 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
i read that they were going to put 1 GSL map into the ladder yeah they do plan on it but that 1 gsl map they are going to put in I bet is crossfire. If its an actual GSL map like altar (I'll pray for it  ) I would be shocked. I might have missed something obvious here but is Crossfire considered a good or bad map? haven't got the chance to try it.
Don't really know have really only seen tvt/pvp on it I think and zvz. And 1 tvz between idra/jinro. I personally don't like the map and would much rather have an actual GSL made map instead of crossfire
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All I read are complaints, we should give these maps time. Why would we want games where 3th and 4th and 5th are easy to defend, it'll just take hours and hours for a game to finish.
Though I think they should've implented like only cross or close air positions like in shakuras. Since I feel close positions is more a problem than having a safe 3rd, just learn to defend.
I just see ti as a good thing that blizzard is trying to improve thier game. Hope we see some mroe new maps soon.
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swing and a miss
how many more till blizzard strikes out?
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played a few PvTs on Slag Pit with a buddy, close positions. was pretty crappy, one of those maps where you can't play standard vs. terran without the possibility of getting mowed down by 3-rax. after finally securing the natural feels like there's no way to get a well placed third. I can see zergs raging about this map. it's unbelievable that they planned this to be a macro map like metalopolis.
fuck this map and DQ, bring back shakuras.
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On February 27 2011 11:10 andeh wrote:
swing and a miss
how many more till blizzard strikes out? This next patch should do the trick.
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I played about 20 games on ladder last night and as such experienced some of the new maps, not all though. I'm a bit surprised that Delta Quadrant was left on and Shakuras removed though.
Slag Pits was the one I played the most on, and man is it weird taking a third in this map! Although I really like the Shattered Temple and have voted accordingly.
At least it's something new and fresh which is always good 
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Take out Slag Pits and put Shakuras back in and I'll be fairly content.
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On February 27 2011 11:01 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 10:20 cnas wrote:On February 27 2011 10:02 DeltruS wrote:On February 27 2011 09:51 cnas wrote:
I'm so fking disappointed. Every time it rolled shak it was almost certain to be a fair game. I've been laddering today and every single game on the new maps i've been cheesed.
Is Bliz blind? Can't they see the awesome games from GSL on shak? Most of the great games from GSL on the Bliz maps have been on shak.
Bliz refusal to add good maps is starting to feel like New Coke to me. When are they gonna stop and say: "what the hell are we doing? let's just give them good maps." I think the high cheese rate is due to the low amount of understanding of the maps. People aren't comfortable playing macro games on them. I just really wish they had a bigger map pool with ICcup and GSL maps. They would make ladder so much fun instead of work. Yeah, that's prolly a big part of it tbh. But the naturals on backwater is annoying for two reasons. First of all, i spawned so i had to hatch towards my enemy, while his natural was faced in the other way (like lost temple in wc3). Also the ramp leading down to the hatch is so far away. Also got a game with close pos on slag pit and i haven't done the maths but it felt like half the rush distance of steppes. Sigh... On February 27 2011 10:06 blade55555 wrote:On February 27 2011 10:02 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
i read that they were going to put 1 GSL map into the ladder yeah they do plan on it but that 1 gsl map they are going to put in I bet is crossfire. If its an actual GSL map like altar (I'll pray for it ) I would be shocked. I might have missed something obvious here but is Crossfire considered a good or bad map? haven't got the chance to try it. Don't really know have really only seen tvt/pvp on it I think and zvz. And 1 tvz between idra/jinro. I personally don't like the map and would much rather have an actual GSL made map instead of crossfire
Crossfire is a remake of the map Sin Peaks of Baekdu (I think that's the spelling) from Broodwar, which was made by more or less the same Koreans as the GSL maps unless the KESPA issue is bigger than I thought. It's pretty much already a GSL map.
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people need to quit whining, sure blizzard will probably never get everything right but hi think blizzard does a good job over all- if you hate it so much go play minesweeper or something, then you won't need to complain against balance. i think each map has certain features depending on spawn locations that allow for different styles of play and different people enjoy using different game styles and so just because you don't like a certain map or do like a map because it fits your race/style better does not mean that it is a good map.
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On February 27 2011 11:17 Allred wrote:
people need to quit whining, sure blizzard will probably never get everything right but hi think blizzard does a good job over all- if you hate it so much go play minesweeper or something, then you won't need to complain against balance. i think each map has certain features depending on spawn locations that allow for different styles of play and different people enjoy using different game styles and so just because you don't like a certain map or do like a map because it fits your race/style better does not mean that it is a good map.
Seems like you are ok with having your opponent sharing the same base with you.
Slag is the most retarded map I've seen, its even worse than steppes......
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First time I saw The Shattered Temple I thought it was Lost Temple.
Also District 10! Win! The other 4v4 maps seemed sort of dull.
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Well I've had a chance to play on Typhon, and my first reaction to it is pretty positive. The layout of your natural is pretty odd, but it seems like you have an extremely easy-to-get 3rd base. Also, the map is HUGE (or at least felt that way to me after playing so much on maps like SoW and DQ).
This is one that I definitely think could see some cool play after a little while in the rotation. I'm still not sold on Slag Pits (close position spawns is terrible) and I'm definitely not seeing anything good coming out of Backwater Gulch, but I hope they keep Typhon for a while. We just better hope play doesn't become too "boring" again :/
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On February 27 2011 11:17 Allred wrote:
people need to quit whining, sure blizzard will probably never get everything right but hi think blizzard does a good job over all- if you hate it so much go play minesweeper or something, then you won't need to complain against balance. i think each map has certain features depending on spawn locations that allow for different styles of play and different people enjoy using different game styles and so just because you don't like a certain map or do like a map because it fits your race/style better does not mean that it is a good map.
What race do you play? Stop whining about those who are 'whining' as you call it. Nobody would have a problem if Blizzard didn't act like greedy capitalists who know everything. It really wouldn't be hard for them to talk to the community, no? After all we are the only reason the game can exist.
You have been brain washed by major coorporations to be a pawn in their money-driven game.
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no love for 3v3 
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are there replays of the new maps available?? anyone uploading any games on them yet??
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Played some games on the new maps.
SP is pretty horrible on close positions. It's even closer with close positions than steps. It induces cheezzzzfest and that's not particularly fun.
Shattered Temple is pretty nice. But I noticed how T and Z are very vulnerable to warpgate harrass when they FE against toss. For example, I can place a pylon where the gold expo is and warp in stuff where the old ledge would be. I see certain abuses for early/mid game.
Backwater has a funky natural. The ramp is pretty far away from the natural expansion and it could be difficult to expand.
Typhoon is nice and I need more games to find any unpleasant features.
It still needs more testing overall , but now I don't really like SP though the other maps are decent.
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On February 27 2011 11:25 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 11:17 Allred wrote:
people need to quit whining, sure blizzard will probably never get everything right but hi think blizzard does a good job over all- if you hate it so much go play minesweeper or something, then you won't need to complain against balance. i think each map has certain features depending on spawn locations that allow for different styles of play and different people enjoy using different game styles and so just because you don't like a certain map or do like a map because it fits your race/style better does not mean that it is a good map. What race do you play? Stop whining about those who are 'whining' as you call it. Nobody would have a problem if Blizzard didn't act like greedy capitalists who know everything. It really wouldn't be hard for them to talk to the community, no? After all we are the only reason the game can exist. You have been brain washed by major coorporations to be a pawn in their money-driven game.
You shouldn't be brainwashed but it's also silly to assume corporations can do no right. Blizzard has created one game that led to the birth of this site and another that led to its second life. They have tried to do map rotations, something players demanded. Most of their balance changes seem to be responsive to the input of higher-up players. I think they're doing a good job. Still, no excuse for having Gulch and Delta in the pool at the same time...ugh. Typhon is a good map and Shattered Temple is way better than LT. People hated Shakuras when it came out too and not just because they thought close spawns were possible, give the maps time.
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Typhon Peaks is easily my favourite of the new maps, and Shattered Temple isn't far behind. The other two I'm a bit meh about.
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On February 27 2011 11:33 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 11:25 monitor wrote:On February 27 2011 11:17 Allred wrote:
people need to quit whining, sure blizzard will probably never get everything right but hi think blizzard does a good job over all- if you hate it so much go play minesweeper or something, then you won't need to complain against balance. i think each map has certain features depending on spawn locations that allow for different styles of play and different people enjoy using different game styles and so just because you don't like a certain map or do like a map because it fits your race/style better does not mean that it is a good map. What race do you play? Stop whining about those who are 'whining' as you call it. Nobody would have a problem if Blizzard didn't act like greedy capitalists who know everything. It really wouldn't be hard for them to talk to the community, no? After all we are the only reason the game can exist. You have been brain washed by major coorporations to be a pawn in their money-driven game. You shouldn't be brainwashed but it's also silly to assume corporations can do no right. Blizzard has created one game that led to the birth of this site and another that led to its second life. They have tried to do map rotations, something players demanded. Most of their balance changes seem to be responsive to the input of higher-up players. I think they're doing a good job. Still, no excuse for having Gulch and Delta in the pool at the same time...ugh. Typhon is a good map and Shattered Temple is way better than LT. People hated Shakuras when it came out too and not just because they thought close spawns were possible, give the maps time.
Yaya, I agree coorporations can make mistakes, all the time. My problem is that they put almost almost no effort into making the community happy, because they can just sit and let the dollars flow in (through sc2 and other games). If they really cared, they would listen to the community's demand for iCCup and GSL maps, and also keep the maps the community wants in.
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Just finished up my first full day of laddering with new maps. Initial thoughts:
Slag pit is awful. Good luck EVER taking a third base.
I think Backwater Gulch's terrain is a bit more interesting and dynamic as far as positioning goes, but it's not a whole lot better than Slag as far as defendable expansions go.
Shattered Temple - I like it. No more cliff imbalance, island is now an easy to defend 3rd, and the single watchtower gives incentive to actually fight over it. The only thing I don't like is that there is still rocks at the gold, which still boggles my mind. Rocks blocking attack paths are reasonable, but I don't see any reason why taking faster expansions is ever bad or abusable.
Typhon Peaks - Probably the best of the new ones (not counting LT 2.0). Depending on spawn points, there are a number of semi-reasonable expansions. The pit expansions are a lot like Xel'Naga, and the up/down expansion pattern (through destructible rocks) feels a lot like Shakuras. Speaking of which, BRING IT BACK.
In summary, not the best effort by Blizzard, but an effort nonetheless, which is appreciated. A step in the right direction, but there's a lot of room for improvement. I still think community maps (GSL/ICCUP) are the way to go.
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EPT
