EPTFOMOS: BW will live if SC2 dies? - Page 7
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50898 Posts
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LostDevil
Fiji283 Posts
I know they want to dumb it down for the casual gamer but frankly it is absurd how easy the game is mechanically if it wants to challenge a long term legend like broodwar. Broodwar has lasted so long because the skill keeps increasing over the years due to all the "imperfections" in the game by today's game making standards. SC2 with its MBS, automine, autocast etc took out half of the actions that determine a players skill. I can't wait until someone replies saying its an RTS and should be about strategy and not mechanics. Well broodwar is successful largely because of the mechanical influence and the skill gaps that result. People want to watch superior performances on TV. Performances that get them excited and make them wish that they could do that. SC2 can't do that right now and many people, along with myself, question whether or not it will be able to in the long run due to the lack of challenging mechanics as compared with Broodwar. Korean fans aren't stupid. They can tell the difference between the skills of the players and would much rather watch the more interesting and challenging games of broodwar than the pretty yet one base all in games of SC2. That being said, it is just an opening ceremony and we don't know the actually #'s that GSL generates as far as revenue etc.. so we can't be sure as to whether or not it is successful at this point in time or dying out. | ||
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Tufas
Austria2259 Posts
The best league possible would be where progamers actually had to play against each other in BW AND SC2. It could start as a part fun tournament but I think that this has HUGH potential. Arguments like such that when both games have to be played no one would master a game may be legit, but not that important imo. I would totally watch that. 24/7. | ||
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Omigawa
United States1556 Posts
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
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Arcanewinds
United Kingdom197 Posts
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rolfe
United Kingdom1266 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
People need to be honest as to why interest in the GSL is ACTUALLY DECLINING! The natural assumption was that Starcraft 2 would ramp up in popularity as time went on, but that obviously isn't the case. I'm too tired to re-iterate why Starcraft 2 is flawed as a spectator sport, but maybe someone else will. Starcraft 2 is running on hype and novelty. It will soon meet the same hard limitations that broodwar faces as an e-sport -- only worse because it is an inferior game. Allow me to qualify. Ask any progamer which of the two Starcrafts is more difficult, more balanced, more rewarding of skill, and he will say that it is broodwar. That is the uncomfortable truth that can't be buried by any amount of hype or direct cash-infusion. If broodwar is to fail in the long run, Starcraft 2 is similar enough (slightly worse in all ways), that it can also be expected to fail. I think you are absolutly wrong! A game does not live because of the skill it needs, the balance or the difficulty, it's all a question of community and charisma. SC1 worked only because of the charisma of the first generation programer, and also because of the first generation of nerds who made a pretty nice community (liquid is the perfect exemple). People always tend to overrate the technical aspect of any sport, be it computer gaming or any other real physical sport (and it's mostly due to the fact that any sports' commentator are specialist). Take the american football for exemple: anybody who knows the rule knows it's a pretty intelligent game, with a lot of strategic parts. But damn, what makes it a great sport to watch is to know the players on the field, to see them clash with fury, to accompagny a wild runner through out the entire field with the eyes and the heart... the most BASIC actions. For the moment, I think SC2 lack community (no chat channel allo?) and player charisma. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On January 07 2011 13:43 puppykiller wrote: Would Blizzard ever destroy the BW servers out of rage that sc2 fails? They would be attacking their own fans, it's absurd. LAN. | ||
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FrostOtter
United States537 Posts
Also, Korea can keep BW. The rest of us will be living in the present. | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
Make the game more difficult? (I highly doubt it) Have gamers that play games that are as beautiful as bw? (fat chance, last gsl finals was like watching ametures play on iccup with one not so good player getting stomped by another not so good player making both making so many mistakes that it really makes you cringe... a bw final would never have be of such rubbish quality. bw is art..even cheese is fun to watch because it's exhilirating!! Beautiful micro is involved by both the attacker and the defender and it's all over if it fails and it CAN fail...unlike sc2 allin 1a scv rush, wtf? bw players are capable of things that are impossible to do if you're a normal everyday guy playing ladder..that's what makes bw so amazing to watch..these guys started playing when they were 12! It is their life! With the skill cap so much lower in sc2, there's not that much to gain from simply starting earlier or playing longer. You see so many new faces every season concisting of kids that just played in their basement that are good enough to play against pros that put their whole lives into the game. There is so much fluctuation of champions in the GSL because everyone is almost as good as eachother and it's very difficult to be the best at any point in time. There is no Flash, there is no Jaedong, there is no Bisu, Stork, Yellow, iloveoov... SC2 doesn't have 1. SKILL 2. ENTERTAINMENT VALUE 3. BEAUTIFUL GAMES 4. CHAMPIONS/BONJWA 5. THE KOREAN MARKET Blizzard have forgotten what it is that makes games great (and I don't mean in a financial sense).. Or perhaps they never did..give kespa a call? User was warned for this post | ||
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FrostOtter
United States537 Posts
On January 08 2011 01:54 aupstar wrote: SC2 doesn't have 1. SKILL 2. ENTERTAINMENT VALUE 3. BEAUTIFUL GAMES 4. CHAMPIONS/BONJWA 5. THE KOREAN MARKET While I understand that many of the BW people are having trouble letting go (although I myself did not have any trouble whatsoever), I really don't understand statements like this. SC2 certainly requires skill, unless of course you have mastered it and no one else has....in fact, saying that GSL looked like noobs playing doesn't lead me to believe that SC2 requires no skill-- it probably requires more skill than we are currently seeing, as there have yet to be flawless games. It is also entertaining, and not just to me, but to NEW people in the community. The ones that don't want to watch StarPong Brood War. Battles in SC2 are pretty entertaining, and Blizzard has done a good job at making it easy for spectators to follow the progress of the game without having to know too much technical information. As for 4, I think champions are currently coming out of the woodwork, and we see them in the making every day. As far as 5 is concerned, I could care less. The sooner people stop caring about Korea and start caring about esports in their area, the better. | ||
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MusiK
United States302 Posts
I think they can coexist as long as Blizzard doesn't bust a crazy. Watching Jaedong, Flash, and the like playing in SC2 after their BW career will be interesting. Maybe the trend will be that Koreans will gain popularity and fame throughout BW and bring it over to SC2 much like July, Nada, and Boxer. | ||
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vanhio
Niue1017 Posts
Yes bw is more popular than sc2 in korea but sc2 is still huge success. // Sorry for my bad english. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50898 Posts
Why is it the best response?lets see what you claim SC2 doesn't have. SKILL-the game doesn't even have a standard play style like BW,its more like a flavor of the month build order for SC2. Entertainment Value/Beautiful Games-there have been some crazily entertaining games,one game I would say was way back in the beta TLO vs Nazgul.That was a beautiful game and extremely entertaining.but that aside there has still not been any sort of standardized play which leads to a very unstable metagame,some new build order which is completely unheard of will rape a know build order.As long as there will be build order wins,there will be less exciting games in SC2. Champions/Bonjwas-Even you should agree that its too fucking early to have a Bonjwa in this unstable game,IIRC the idea of Bonjwa came only during NaDa's prime and people argued that BoxeR and Oov were also just as awesome as him in their prime and thats how the first 3 bonjwas came to be. Korean Market-Because no one appeared to the the opening ceremony and all the games up until Thursday,Koreans hate SC2....I saw quite a lot of people in the audience today.(using my awesome skills to watch both GSL and OSL simultaneously) | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3047 Posts
On January 08 2011 00:46 sleepingdog wrote: Interesting opinion, I have to say I agree completely - WC3 also was very (over-)hyped when it came out, the new RTS standard that will change the world forever blahblah. Although there wasn't anything remotely like GSL for WC3, the game was "somewhat" succesful in Korea at the beginning, with interest declining after the first time. Actually, WC3 died in Korea mostly due to 'rigged map' incident. | ||
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
On January 08 2011 01:50 FrostOtter wrote: Also, Korea can keep BW. The rest of us will be living in the present. You guys should really stop using that argument since it's not true at all. Not just Korea but the whole east Asia region (except Australia) is still sticking to BW (and War3 and AoE). The main reason is Sc2's high price, high system requirement and no LAN support. | ||
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
On January 08 2011 00:11 Faze. wrote: I just went back on SC:BW the other day for the first time in a couple years. I gotta say you have to really only play that and only that to see it that way. As soon as you touch a more recent game you automatically realize how bad a lot of things are in SC:BW, I'm not even gonna talk about the graphics cuz that's a given, but just the way units move and feel is all fucked up in there, I mean zerglings are so freaking huge they pump into each other, it's aweful. The gameplay mechanics in SC2 offer a lot more flexibility and fluidity. Challengewise, yah maybe atm SC:BW has more challenge, but as things go, SC2 will quickly catch up. Spectatorwise, yes SC:BW has more... in korea, and korea only. SC2 is a huge step for esport around the world, many new players getting into it everyday all thanks to SC2, not SC1. As for being more fun... I think you're just nostalgic. I play both, and personally SC2 is more fun when playing casually, like customs or team pubstomps, and BW is more fun to play competitively. All your "bad points" about BW make it more fun competitively. The fluidity makes SC2 great... for A-moving while playing at 100 APM, and munching on a cookie. SC2 won't catch up challenge-wise unless Blizzard makes some radical changes in the expansions. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
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FrostOtter
United States537 Posts
On January 08 2011 02:47 kamikami wrote: You guys should really stop using that argument since it's not true at all. Not just Korea but the whole east Asia region (except Australia) is still sticking to BW (and War3 and AoE). The main reason is Sc2's high price, high system requirement and no LAN support. Sorry about that, I meant "the whole east Asia region (except Australia)" can keep BW. The rest of us will be living in the present. | ||
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