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On January 07 2011 16:31 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 13:48 udgnim wrote:
The opening GSL ceremonies is more a really bad decision than a failure.
MBC or OGN could try to have some type of opening ceremony for MSL/OSL and I don't think it could draw 500+ people.
people care about finals or games between big names. they care much less for a ceremony to announce the people who have qualified for the tournament. I agree, I think they should scale back on several things until the game is more mature. - No gigantic opening ceremony! - Make Ro8 bo3 and semis Bo5, its just too many games when there are still so many mismatches. Also, map imbalance becomes an issue when you have to play 7 games, and they dont have their own map pool. Would be my first two changes I guess. Maybe slow down the pace a little too, having a game a day is a lot when there arent really many big names yet.
This right here.
If they would have scaled everything down including the matches, then they would most likely have called the Opening Ceremonies a complete success.
I don't know how they could project such a radical growth in such a short perioid of time. Again as stated above, SC2 is young, let it grow.
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or maybe its just because noone understands code S or code A or any of this dumb system they have going now.
i know that at least for me it is WAY less fun to watch when its not in the bracket setup. all these players only play one game against eachother in the round of 32 in group, instead of in heated bo3s. so boring. i just skipped watchng a couple of the groups cause its just not fun to watch, and i bought the vod package.
this system they have now may, make sense tournament wise, but i wouldnt know cause i dont feel like taking an hour to try to understand it. i just want the standard tourney back.
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On January 08 2011 00:00 Faze. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 19:25 Essentia wrote:On January 07 2011 16:59 Refreshe wrote:If starcraft 2 fails, and lets hope it doesn't, they could always make broodwar with better graphics  . This would maybe be blizzards last resort for cash? Honestly if blizz had just made another expansion to SC1 and called it SC2 it woulda been a bigger success than the current SC2. Not at all, only SC1 players would play it. SC2 has a shitton more players than SC1 right now, its only less popular in terms of tournaments and fame in korea. I know you're gonna say "yeah but all these new players are shits and WoW-newbs anyways we don't need them", well guess what, the world doesn't need your retardation either.
I think that many of the SC2 players witht he mindset of "ooohh so pretty 3d graphixxx" would also play BW HD.
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I consider it pretty unlikely that Blizzard would shut down BW servers. Despite what some ardent BW fans here may think due to the lawsuits, Blizzard is still a very strong brand in Korea and they've other titles to sell. With D3 and new MMORPG around the corner, it would make little sense for them to garner ill-will just to save a few bucks (maintaining the servers is probably very cheap).
Of course, they won't keep maintaining them forever and the reality is BW will eventually die, but hopefully not anytime soon.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 08 2011 00:03 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:00 Faze. wrote:On January 07 2011 19:25 Essentia wrote:On January 07 2011 16:59 Refreshe wrote:If starcraft 2 fails, and lets hope it doesn't, they could always make broodwar with better graphics . This would maybe be blizzards last resort for cash? Honestly if blizz had just made another expansion to SC1 and called it SC2 it woulda been a bigger success than the current SC2. Not at all, only SC1 players would play it. SC2 has a shitton more players than SC1 right now, its only less popular in terms of tournaments and fame in korea. I know you're gonna say "yeah but all these new players are shits and WoW-newbs anyways we don't need them", well guess what, the world doesn't need your retardation either. I think that many of the SC2 players witht he mindset of "ooohh so pretty 3d graphixxx" would also play BW HD.
Let's stop the ignorant BW vs. SC2 discussions right here.
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So, how many times do we need to tell them to shove off of only using blizzard maps? They were terrible in BW back in the olden days too. If the GSL adopts new maps, the rest of the scene will follow.
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On January 08 2011 00:05 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:03 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:00 Faze. wrote:On January 07 2011 19:25 Essentia wrote:On January 07 2011 16:59 Refreshe wrote:If starcraft 2 fails, and lets hope it doesn't, they could always make broodwar with better graphics . This would maybe be blizzards last resort for cash? Honestly if blizz had just made another expansion to SC1 and called it SC2 it woulda been a bigger success than the current SC2. Not at all, only SC1 players would play it. SC2 has a shitton more players than SC1 right now, its only less popular in terms of tournaments and fame in korea. I know you're gonna say "yeah but all these new players are shits and WoW-newbs anyways we don't need them", well guess what, the world doesn't need your retardation either. I think that many of the SC2 players witht he mindset of "ooohh so pretty 3d graphixxx" would also play BW HD. Let's stop the ignorant BW vs. SC2 discussions right here.
You misunderstand me. I was trying to make the point that there is a breed of casual gamer not exclusive to SC2 who will jump at any of the new graphically superior games.
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The game isn't even 1 year old and shit like this is being written already? Seriously. BW didn't take 6 months to become what it is today in Korea, hiccups are bound to happen.
Blizzard really needs to do their part on the map pool in particular though if they don't want viewship to continue to decline. There is only so many times that people want to watch games that are so short and predictive for reasons that have been debated to death already.
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[QUOTE]On January 07 2011 23:55 ICanFlyLow wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 07 2011 23:52 bonifaceviii wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 07 2011 23:36 GoldenH wrote:
BW will live if SC2 dies... in Korea[QUOTE]
Basically. BW will live on in Korea because it's so firmly entrenched there, but if SC2 dies everywhere other than Korea BW dies too.[/QUOTE]
BW will live because gamewise, challengewise and spectatorwise its superiour. Anyone that has played BW for atleast the same amount of time theyve spent on SC2 that disagrees with me?
Also, i remember it being a hell more fun to play  [/QUOTE]
I just went back on SC:BW the other day for the first time in a couple years. I gotta say you have to really only play that and only that to see it that way. As soon as you touch a more recent game you automatically realize how bad a lot of things are in SC:BW, I'm not even gonna talk about the graphics cuz that's a given, but just the way units move and feel is all fucked up in there, I mean zerglings are so freaking huge they pump into each other, it's aweful. The gameplay mechanics in SC2 offer a lot more flexibility and fluidity. Challengewise, yah maybe atm SC:BW has more challenge, but as things go, SC2 will quickly catch up. Spectatorwise, yes SC:BW has more... in korea, and korea only. SC2 is a huge step for esport around the world, many new players getting into it everyday all thanks to SC2, not SC1.
As for being more fun... I think you're just nostalgic.
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As far as I can see it there is not a hugh increase in new bw players who, in this time and age, choose bw of all the games to play it because they feel it is the best e.t.c. . Almost all of the new players who either get into the age of playing PC/MAC games or start playing will choose sc2 over bw and some of them may not even have seen bw. So I see no future where the viewership of bw can actually increase while the potential for sc2 is wide open right now. I really like SC2 and I would be very sorry to see it going away. In fact, if SC2 "dies", I would be much less interested in watching computer games broadcasted online and thus I also would view much less bw.
Although I feel that broodwar will eventually die out naturally if status Quo is held as I think that SC2 teams are much more liberal as their BW counterparts and if I was a bw progamer, I would switch.
Well, long live Broodwar.
Long live Starcraft 2 !!
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Love how no-one actually has the figures that matter to the sponsers.. ie the people watching the games. If 3 men a dog were watching, then yes it's in shit.. opening ceremony turnouts count for nothing,
I've watched football my entire life.. you think i'd honestly give a crap to turn up the world cup opening ceremony? hells no.. I'd go watch England play games. not honestly interested in watching some random people who have nothing to do with it dance while they shoot fireworks. I'm pretty sure it's the same for Korea.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 08 2011 00:09 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:05 Jibba wrote:On January 08 2011 00:03 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:00 Faze. wrote:On January 07 2011 19:25 Essentia wrote:On January 07 2011 16:59 Refreshe wrote:If starcraft 2 fails, and lets hope it doesn't, they could always make broodwar with better graphics . This would maybe be blizzards last resort for cash? Honestly if blizz had just made another expansion to SC1 and called it SC2 it woulda been a bigger success than the current SC2. Not at all, only SC1 players would play it. SC2 has a shitton more players than SC1 right now, its only less popular in terms of tournaments and fame in korea. I know you're gonna say "yeah but all these new players are shits and WoW-newbs anyways we don't need them", well guess what, the world doesn't need your retardation either. I think that many of the SC2 players witht he mindset of "ooohh so pretty 3d graphixxx" would also play BW HD. Let's stop the ignorant BW vs. SC2 discussions right here. You misunderstand me. I was trying to make the point that there is a breed of casual gamer not exclusive to SC2 who will jump at any of the new graphically superior games.
Right, you're just insulting SC2 players, not SC2. So much better.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49506 Posts
On January 08 2011 00:24 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:09 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:05 Jibba wrote:On January 08 2011 00:03 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:00 Faze. wrote:On January 07 2011 19:25 Essentia wrote:On January 07 2011 16:59 Refreshe wrote:If starcraft 2 fails, and lets hope it doesn't, they could always make broodwar with better graphics . This would maybe be blizzards last resort for cash? Honestly if blizz had just made another expansion to SC1 and called it SC2 it woulda been a bigger success than the current SC2. Not at all, only SC1 players would play it. SC2 has a shitton more players than SC1 right now, its only less popular in terms of tournaments and fame in korea. I know you're gonna say "yeah but all these new players are shits and WoW-newbs anyways we don't need them", well guess what, the world doesn't need your retardation either. I think that many of the SC2 players witht he mindset of "ooohh so pretty 3d graphixxx" would also play BW HD. Let's stop the ignorant BW vs. SC2 discussions right here. You misunderstand me. I was trying to make the point that there is a breed of casual gamer not exclusive to SC2 who will jump at any of the new graphically superior games. Right, you're just insulting SC2 players, not SC2. So much better.
I think he only mans casual gamers...although this is the same for everygame....hardcores would stick to the game longer than casuals.
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On January 08 2011 00:28 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:24 Jibba wrote:On January 08 2011 00:09 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:05 Jibba wrote:On January 08 2011 00:03 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:00 Faze. wrote:On January 07 2011 19:25 Essentia wrote:On January 07 2011 16:59 Refreshe wrote:If starcraft 2 fails, and lets hope it doesn't, they could always make broodwar with better graphics . This would maybe be blizzards last resort for cash? Honestly if blizz had just made another expansion to SC1 and called it SC2 it woulda been a bigger success than the current SC2. Not at all, only SC1 players would play it. SC2 has a shitton more players than SC1 right now, its only less popular in terms of tournaments and fame in korea. I know you're gonna say "yeah but all these new players are shits and WoW-newbs anyways we don't need them", well guess what, the world doesn't need your retardation either. I think that many of the SC2 players witht he mindset of "ooohh so pretty 3d graphixxx" would also play BW HD. Let's stop the ignorant BW vs. SC2 discussions right here. You misunderstand me. I was trying to make the point that there is a breed of casual gamer not exclusive to SC2 who will jump at any of the new graphically superior games. Right, you're just insulting SC2 players, not SC2. So much better. I think he only mans casual gamers...although this is the same for everygame....hardcores would stick to the game longer than casuals.
There are a ton more casuals than hardcore gamers in SC2. So the point stands that most of the SC2 community can take exception to what he wrote.
OT: There really is no point in comparing the games. SC2 is new and has alot of space to grow as a game. We aren't even at 1 expansion yet of the planned 2. The games needs to grow and the venues do too.... they just have to grow with the game not oversize it.
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If bw will live if Sc2 dies then i hope that Sc2 will fail in Korea.
China = Warcraft III
Korea = Broodwar
Foreigners = Starcraft II
Everyone is happy, white boi can get some money at Sc2 and i can watch OSL / MSL
Also can't wait for warcraft IV <3
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Give it time. SC2 has had only 3 Opens so far and are in the process of the 4th GSL event. There was more money infused (outside of contracts) into SC2 in a 3 month period than in a single year of BW Prize money. The talent is still young, so short of someone being a emperor in BW and proving themselves in SC2, i don't except big contracts to be handed out just because someone made code S. Maybe after the current S-A promotions/demotions finish you'll see more big "contracts".
BW is riding on 10 years as a eSport, SC2 on less than 10 month, it's no wonder BW is still more popular. Honestly as much as I am rooting for SC2 to succeed, if SC2 was more popular at this point I would be a little confused/worried. You have 13-17 year olds playing this on a level that i can't reach right now. So all they grew up knowing was SC2 and now this new thing is here. BW all stars and pros like Jaedong & Flash have no reason to leave BW right now. They are dominating a game and making themselves money.
SC2 =/ BW - you just can't compare the two. I've got a feeling that by the end of this calendar year you will think back and question why an article like this even doubted SC2 in the first place. The game is <6 months old.
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On January 08 2011 00:32 ShadowLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:28 BLinD-RawR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:24 Jibba wrote:On January 08 2011 00:09 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:05 Jibba wrote:On January 08 2011 00:03 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:00 Faze. wrote:On January 07 2011 19:25 Essentia wrote:On January 07 2011 16:59 Refreshe wrote:If starcraft 2 fails, and lets hope it doesn't, they could always make broodwar with better graphics . This would maybe be blizzards last resort for cash? Honestly if blizz had just made another expansion to SC1 and called it SC2 it woulda been a bigger success than the current SC2. Not at all, only SC1 players would play it. SC2 has a shitton more players than SC1 right now, its only less popular in terms of tournaments and fame in korea. I know you're gonna say "yeah but all these new players are shits and WoW-newbs anyways we don't need them", well guess what, the world doesn't need your retardation either. I think that many of the SC2 players witht he mindset of "ooohh so pretty 3d graphixxx" would also play BW HD. Let's stop the ignorant BW vs. SC2 discussions right here. You misunderstand me. I was trying to make the point that there is a breed of casual gamer not exclusive to SC2 who will jump at any of the new graphically superior games. Right, you're just insulting SC2 players, not SC2. So much better. I think he only mans casual gamers...although this is the same for everygame....hardcores would stick to the game longer than casuals. There are a ton more casuals than hardcore gamers in SC2. So the point stands that most of the SC2 community can take exception to what he wrote. OT: There really is no point in comparing the games. SC2 is new and has alot of space to grow as a game. We aren't even at 1 expansion yet of the planned 2. The games needs to grow and the venues do too.... they just have to grow with the game not oversize it.
If you read the posts i was replying to you should see that i was only trying to contend that new players would just as well play a spruced up BW if Blizzard had gone that route.
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On January 08 2011 00:28 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:24 Jibba wrote:On January 08 2011 00:09 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:05 Jibba wrote:On January 08 2011 00:03 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:00 Faze. wrote:On January 07 2011 19:25 Essentia wrote:On January 07 2011 16:59 Refreshe wrote:If starcraft 2 fails, and lets hope it doesn't, they could always make broodwar with better graphics . This would maybe be blizzards last resort for cash? Honestly if blizz had just made another expansion to SC1 and called it SC2 it woulda been a bigger success than the current SC2. Not at all, only SC1 players would play it. SC2 has a shitton more players than SC1 right now, its only less popular in terms of tournaments and fame in korea. I know you're gonna say "yeah but all these new players are shits and WoW-newbs anyways we don't need them", well guess what, the world doesn't need your retardation either. I think that many of the SC2 players witht he mindset of "ooohh so pretty 3d graphixxx" would also play BW HD. Let's stop the ignorant BW vs. SC2 discussions right here. You misunderstand me. I was trying to make the point that there is a breed of casual gamer not exclusive to SC2 who will jump at any of the new graphically superior games. Right, you're just insulting SC2 players, not SC2. So much better. I think he only mans casual gamers...although this is the same for everygame....hardcores would stick to the game longer than casuals.
No he said there are people who only play for graphics, which is the easiest answer to give, not even thinking about other aspects such as gameplay. SC2 gameplay is also MUCH better than SC1, on every level, all SC1 has right now is probably better balance, and I say probably because this is hard to judge for ANYONE and SC2 is still young. And SC1 also has the old units that people miss in SC2. Other than that, if you wan clumsy units pumping into each others, humongous zerglings and a blatant lack of user friendly control mechanics, go play SC1.
Okay that was gratuitously mean, I still like SC1, but people just fail to see the real differences between the 2 sometimes.
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On January 08 2011 00:24 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:09 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:05 Jibba wrote:On January 08 2011 00:03 ShadeR wrote:On January 08 2011 00:00 Faze. wrote:On January 07 2011 19:25 Essentia wrote:On January 07 2011 16:59 Refreshe wrote:If starcraft 2 fails, and lets hope it doesn't, they could always make broodwar with better graphics . This would maybe be blizzards last resort for cash? Honestly if blizz had just made another expansion to SC1 and called it SC2 it woulda been a bigger success than the current SC2. Not at all, only SC1 players would play it. SC2 has a shitton more players than SC1 right now, its only less popular in terms of tournaments and fame in korea. I know you're gonna say "yeah but all these new players are shits and WoW-newbs anyways we don't need them", well guess what, the world doesn't need your retardation either. I think that many of the SC2 players witht he mindset of "ooohh so pretty 3d graphixxx" would also play BW HD. Let's stop the ignorant BW vs. SC2 discussions right here. You misunderstand me. I was trying to make the point that there is a breed of casual gamer not exclusive to SC2 who will jump at any of the new graphically superior games. Right, you're just insulting SC2 players, not SC2. So much better.
I don't see how his statement can be warped into an insult to sc2 players. He's merely stating that there are people out there that would play a game if it were graphically appealing. I think that his statement is very much true that there are people out there that would play a game specifically because it is visually appealing. I don't think that he's trying to insult the sc2 community by saying, "the only reason you play sc2 is because of the graphics," like you think he is.
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On January 07 2011 23:51 hifriend wrote:
SC2 won't fail by any means but the situation is looking a lot like WC3. Actually what's happening is identical to WC3.
Interesting opinion, I have to say I agree completely - WC3 also was very (over-)hyped when it came out, the new RTS standard that will change the world forever blahblah. Although there wasn't anything remotely like GSL for WC3, the game was "somewhat" succesful in Korea at the beginning, with interest declining after the first time.
As we all know it became one of the most succesful RTS games outside of Korea and also the interest in Korea never died completely (do I have to even mention Moon here?).
I wouldn't be surprised if SC2 had to share the same fate, huge success in the "foreign world" but a failure to "replace" BW or at least coexist with BW on the same level in Korea, at least in the near future. The more important question for me is though, if this is a bad thing.
The one thing I want you to notice is, that pretty much everybody nowadays is talking about BW compared to SC2...notcie something? Indeed, BW is SC 1 PLUS the expansion. SC2 isn't a "finished" game, we will see two expansions, each of which will introduce new units that will change balance completely. It isn't necessarily a bad thing if SC2 stays low for 1-2 years, grows, lets some players get REALLY good at it and THEN aims for the huge success in e-sports. If SC2 will be successful in the long run can only be determined AFTER the game is "finished", after all the expansions and after all of the units are in place.
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EPT
