EPTFOMOS: BW will live if SC2 dies? - Page 9
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Jager
United Kingdom140 Posts
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
Could anyone provide some actual data, if any, for previous SC:BW, SC2 and current SC:BW and SC2 cause this mixed feelings and revelations each of you seem to be having mean nothing without a spreadsheet to back them out. | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
On January 08 2011 03:58 Jager wrote: why do people here care what the korean consensus is? When it comes to the rest of the world there is an insane amount of money and tournaments that are going on and I would say its already taken over WC3 in popularity. Beating out WC3 as an e-sport is hardly an accomplishment to be proud of. It isn't a surprise that SC2 is compared to SC1 because without the Starcraft name most of us wouldn't be here talking about this new game. | ||
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
On January 08 2011 04:04 Dental Floss wrote: Beating out WC3 as an e-sport is hardly an accomplishment to be proud of. It isn't a surprise that SC2 is compared to SC1 because without the Starcraft name most of us wouldn't be here talking about this new game. Oh? So if this game was just called Wings of Liberty made by Blizzard and is exactly as it is now, people wouldn't be interested? You are being delusional. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On January 08 2011 03:58 Jager wrote: why do people here care what the korean consensus is? When it comes to the rest of the world there is an insane amount of money and tournaments that are going on and I would say its already taken over WC3 in popularity. Because e-sports in korea is what e-sports in the rest of the world want to be. Their scene is the standard by which other e-sports competitions are measured. They succeded not only in popularity, they succeded economically and socially, something not yet seen in the rest of the world. Yes, there are big tournaments, with lots of money, but really, nobody outside GG/TL really cares about any of this. In korea, SC is a marketable brand and a very profitable one, if the same were achieved with other games and/or in other countries, we'd be looking at a very different e-sports scene. | ||
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IndieFinch
United States124 Posts
With more and more great streaming services popping up, their main goal should be to get this content to as many people as possible while bringing in the biggest amount of sponsors as possible. There is great potential all over the world that us untapped currently. So if they are having problems filling an arena, use all that money that you spent on that production and disperse it out to improving your streams / content. There are so many Starcraft fans out there who still go, "GSL what is that?" If they were given easier access and cheaper content they would be more inclined to get hooked on watching the games. In korea, SC is a marketable brand and a very profitable one, if the same were achieved with other games and/or in other countries, we'd be looking at a very different e-sports scene. But the problem is other countries will never take to e-sports like Korea. Here in the US every night there is a major sporting event happening. Korea doesn't have other major sports like Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, Soccer...etc. So the rest of the world needs to worry less about "What works for Korea will work for us!" They need to find their niche in the culture and try and succeed in that area. | ||
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DeckOneBell
United States526 Posts
Though, of course, we all naturally want SC2 to succeed as much as BW, or at least, I do, because a lot of people in this thread seem to want it to die. Let's look at the situation: Brood War might survive and stay stable in Korea, if SC2 were to die. The decline for it might not be for another 5, 10 years, and it might go on like it is today. Great. The only way ESPORTS internationally is ever going to be anything close to the current Korean BW scene, or even close to the GSL (40,000 dollar first prize anyone?) is if the focus is on SC2. This isn't a discussion about which game is superior, because BW can very well be perfect, and that still won't matter. The audience for professional gaming isn't even close to mostly hardcore gamers. In fact, the audience is largely casual gamers, or even people who hardly game at all, and the appeal of BW can be lost on them. I want pretty much everyone to watch games of starcraft, and it doesn't seem like very many people will watch games of BW. But I've managed to make all my friends watch pro games of SC2, and they've mostly enjoyed it, you see, everyone who isn't into it as much as the typical Team Liquid poster doesn't really mind the supposed problems like unit clumping, micro issues, unit pushing, MBS, automine, and smart casting. But anyway, what I want to see happen is for GOM TV to handle their foreign broadcast more professionally, for the GSL to adapt custom maps (hell, they can afford to pay mapmakers), for a reigning champion to emerge (let's go MC~) and for a season-based team league to emerge. But we'll see. | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1660 Posts
Now Blizzard killing bw for sc2 will be the top#1 shit move in video games history, I really hope it won't happen. | ||
Chill
Calgary25991 Posts
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dcberkeley
Canada844 Posts
On January 08 2011 03:58 Jager wrote: why do people here care what the korean consensus is? When it comes to the rest of the world there is an insane amount of money and tournaments that are going on and I would say its already taken over WC3 in popularity. Pretty ignorant to think that tournaments will hold up. Why do you think insane amounts of money are being poured in? Popularity? No, it's to gain popularity. It's dumb to think that because there's lots of money right now, things will get better. SC2 isn't even at BW popularity and realistically needs to far surpass it if it wants to maintain business for a decade, something that BW has miraculously done. Nobody in the west gives a shit about SC2 the way Koreans care about BW. | ||
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NIIINO
Slovakia1320 Posts
I think that problem with GSL is that its too often. look at Hockey world cup its every year and i think thats why its not taken so seriously from players. (they just keep playing in NHL while there is world cup) So GSL should probably stop doing it every month but every second month. And i think they need more firework too. | ||
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On January 08 2011 03:45 aupstar wrote: What more could blizzard do to hurt bw than what it's already doing? I'm not a disciple of the Kotick School of Running Businesses into the Ground (Baby), but more lawsuits? Copyright laws? Perhaps some kind of changes to BW itself? I'm sure they can come up with something if they put all of their considerable money and muscle behind it, whereas right now they're focusing a lot of attention on making SC2 huge. Also, I should mention that I'm talking specifically of the Korean BW scene. This actually works out really well since I'm fine with the foreign BW scene dying (if it hasn't already) and the Korean BW scene remaining alive and well. The goal should be to emulate the Korean BW scene on a global SC2 level. | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1660 Posts
On January 08 2011 04:36 Chill wrote: Does Korea matter to the average person? If we end up with OSL/MSL in Korea, and SC2 has MLG and other tournaments with the same prize pool, is that really a failure? I love Korean BW, but I've never understood why Korea is viewed as a barometer for success when it's a pretty small percentage of SC2 players. They don't really do anything special that anyone else can't do in another country. I am not sure if it's really a small amount of players if it has the same success of bw. On top of that, bw longevity is due to Korean progamming and not foreigners playing it, so if sc2 korean progaming fails, how long do you expect sc2 to live? | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On January 08 2011 04:36 Chill wrote: Does Korea matter to the average person? If we end up with OSL/MSL in Korea, and SC2 has MLG and other tournaments with the same prize pool, is that really a failure? I love Korean BW, but I've never understood why Korea is viewed as a barometer for success when it's a pretty small percentage of SC2 players. They don't really do anything special that anyone else can't do in another country. I think the idea is that players want a central place to train, and Korea seemed like the best place for that to happen, since it's already happening in BW. Training houses don't exist in any other esport outside of Korea, besides temporary ones for CS, and if they were in Europe/US, they'd surely be more spread out than they are in Korea, possibly reducing their effectiveness. | ||
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legaton
France1763 Posts
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Jager
United Kingdom140 Posts
On January 08 2011 04:36 dcberkeley wrote: Pretty ignorant to think that tournaments will hold up. Why do you think insane amounts of money are being poured in? Popularity? No, it's to gain popularity. It's dumb to think that because there's lots of money right now, things will get better. SC2 isn't even at BW popularity and realistically needs to far surpass it if it wants to maintain business for a decade, something that BW has miraculously done. Nobody in the west gives a shit about SC2 the way Koreans care about BW. No you are pretty ignorant, SC2 is more popular in the west that BW ever was. There is an insane amount of tournaments because there is a demand for them, companies don't sponsor tournaments to make the game popular they do it for company exposure. cs 1.6 has been going on strong for over a decade and its had no such business model that Korea had for SC. | ||
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Juaks
United States384 Posts
On January 07 2011 17:00 xBillehx wrote: I think both scenes can coexist in Korea and its only a matter of time before we see both SC2 and BW on OGN/MBC. BW is still strong in Korea and SC2 already dominates the foreign scene. SC2 is in the top 10 of the most voted for WCG 2011 and the WCG staff is having a real tough time deciding whether or not to include BW as well. Does WCG air on Korean TV? What I dont get though is why people are even talking about GSL being a failure. The GSL 3 finals stadium was full. 1800~ fans came and the stadium could only hold 2000. The opening day for this season was pretty lame compared to the opening day of the GSLs last year (wtf no kpop groups?!!?1), not to mention it was on January 2nd. Not only is it fucking cold in Korea but people were on their New Years break man. Overall it was really bad timing and not really worth a stadium. It was nothing super special, 4 players in a group stage like the normal days today and a really long intro of the 32 Code S players. (seriously no kpop so lame) I dislike that the article goes on to say the two need each other because of Blizzard. Don't wanna get too much into that because what I also dislike is when fans of one side can't just stfu and play nice with fans of the other. It's a shame people even have to pick sides, I fucking love both. Starcraft is Starcraft and whether it's the MSL finals between Jaedong and Bisu (sorry Flash) or the legendary Boxer vs Nada at the GSL, I'm in for a good time. I agree with this. I think it was GOM mistake to go for a huge scenario in such a bad timing...January 2? c´mon! I really doubt SC2 is losing popularity or dying. Let´s wait for the semis/finals, you´ll see the difference. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Edit: Yes, I understand the last statement could be argued up to death, so clarifying that since I am SC1 player I am looking extremely harsh upon it to account for any possible inert bias I may have. Honestly co-existence, or Eastern-Western split, is perfectly fine with me. | ||
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wxwx
527 Posts
koreans are just too into BW, they all understand how BW works and so they watch BW games. You've got to play the game yourself in order to understand what is going on in pro matches (example: I'm an sc2 player and I have no idea whats going on in BW). I'm willing to bet that a majority of koreans just aren't getting exposed to sc2 probably because of the high price tag and the un-hackable bnet2.0. People aren't buying sc2, and LANcenters/PCBangs aren't adopting the game. Result? No one cares about sc2 pro-scene, especially since there's starleague season going on. Solution? Someone needs to get to pirating quick, and put the game on something like Garena (I think that's the name). This could make sc2 big in China too, because only when people can play the game for free/dirt cheap will it become mainstream in asia. As for a legal solution? Maybe blizzard can lower the price tag, provide free hand-outs to PC-bangs. Also sc2 needs a dota quick, so when people get bored of multiplayer they can just load dota, instead of playing other games/MMOs and getting hooked. Look at the bind blizzard found themselves in: "Let's make money by making sc2 huge so everyone will have to buy our game!" "Oh wait, the price tag is too high and sc2 isn't taking off as an e-sport, but should we really lower the price tag, it would hurt our profits." If anyone actually bothered to read what I posted, the main picture that I'm trying to paint is that it's unwise to have e-sports spearheaded by one company alone. They need a union/federation from all critical areas of the sport (sponsors, blizzard, broadcasters, teams, maybe a few players) spearheading the development of the sport. With 1 company (blizzard) having a monopoly over the direction e-sports is heading, we're going to see a lot of really selfish decisions, because in the end, blizzard is a company out to make money. | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
SC2 is super popular, my friends are playing it, even some "console kiddies" have started playing it. "but we hate console kiddies", well guess what, you were probably all console kiddies before BW  So let the new generation step in, there is an option (actually many) besides copying BW. Most people were casual gamers before BW, so why is it a bad thing that casual gamers are now playing sc2? And stop with the "shining graphics" argument, it makes you seem stupid. I dont play the game for shiny graphics, nobody does. We play it cause it's new and fun. Yea the graphics is a plus but stop acting like everyone who doesnt play BW is only interested in graphics :D Oh, and i think Sc2 is doing fine in Korea :D | ||
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