EPTFOMOS: BW will live if SC2 dies? - Page 10
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slappy
United States1271 Posts
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wxwx
527 Posts
On January 08 2011 04:36 Chill wrote: Does Korea matter to the average person? If we end up with OSL/MSL in Korea, and SC2 has MLG and other tournaments with the same prize pool, is that really a failure? I love Korean BW, but I've never understood why Korea is viewed as a barometer for success when it's a pretty small percentage of SC2 players. They don't really do anything special that anyone else can't do in another country. Because as far as e-sports goes, Korea paves the way. The Western scene is developed enough for pro-gamers to live comfortably, whereas in Korea they can. If you ask any pro-gamer whether they'd rather play in OSL finals versus MLG, almost all of them will pick OSL, given the same prize pool. Great feeling to be appreciated by 50,000 people compared to 500. | ||
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Chimpalimp
United States1135 Posts
I believe SC2 is a threat to BW, not because its a competing RTS, but because the game is supposed to be the replacement of BW. Non gaming companies are more likely to sponser SC2 because it is more flash and up-to-date than BW. Thus SC2 will most likely have larger tourneys with bigger prize pools. This entices BW players that could be the future Flash, to just go to SC2 because its easy money. This will over time likely weaken BW overall. I don't think its a 1 way street where one cannot exist with the other. But I do believe that the article is wrong in the points mentioned above. I think the best thing for e-sports is for the community to establish several games under its core structure (CS 1.6, Quake, BW, etc.), and not remove said games because a newer flashier version comes out. | ||
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FrostOtter
United States537 Posts
On January 08 2011 05:16 wxwx wrote: Because as far as e-sports goes, Korea paves the way. The Western scene is developed enough for pro-gamers to live comfortably, whereas in Korea they can. If you ask any pro-gamer whether they'd rather play in OSL finals versus MLG, almost all of them will pick OSL, given the same prize pool. Great feeling to be appreciated by 50,000 people compared to 500. No, it doesn't pave the way. Korean esports hurts Western esports, because then our players become dedicated to going to Korea and supporting their scene instead of growing a scene over here. It is like every one shopping at Wal-Mart and then wondering why small businesses don't succeed, or worse, complaining about Wal-Mart and still shopping there. That is why I completely do not support the Korean scene. I don't watch the games, I don't subscribe, nothing. Which is not to say that I have a problem with Korea and its esports, but I do have a problem when Korean esports come at the expense of our esports. That's why I was so upset (as much as you can be upset over video games) to hear that the EG team was trying to move to Korea. | ||
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gen.Sun
United States539 Posts
On January 08 2011 06:43 FrostOtter wrote: No, it doesn't pave the way. Korean esports hurts Western esports, because then our players become dedicated to going to Korea and supporting their scene instead of growing a scene over here. It is like every one shopping at Wal-Mart and then wondering why small businesses don't succeed, or worse, complaining about Wal-Mart and still shopping there. That is why I completely do not support the Korean scene. I don't watch the games, I don't subscribe, nothing. Which is not to say that I have a problem with Korea and its esports, but I do have a problem when Korean esports come at the expense of our esports. That's why I was so upset (as much as you can be upset over video games) to hear that the EG team was trying to move to Korea. Korean esports doesn't come at the expense of our esports... If we had a league I think everyone would watch it, Koreans would too. We don't have a league. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
The internet is a global phenomenon. Team liquid is made up of pro-gamers from across the world. I think of e-sports as kind of a global scene with Korea being the current nexus in regards to Starcraft. | ||
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IamBach
United States1059 Posts
edit: On January 08 2011 05:32 Chimpalimp wrote: I don't think BW needs SC2 at all (it didn't just 6 months ago, why would it need it now?). If blizz just suddenly shut down B.net cuz SC2 failed, they would be the a rather stupid company. Why would company alienate a fanbase and customers they already hold, merely out of spite? Its just like like saying if the iPad fails, apple will discontinue the ipod. Just because diablo 2 doesn't really sell anymore doesn't mean they are shutting down online diablo... I believe SC2 is a threat to BW, not because its a competing RTS, but because the game is supposed to be the replacement of BW. Non gaming companies are more likely to sponser SC2 because it is more flash and up-to-date than BW. Thus SC2 will most likely have larger tourneys with bigger prize pools. This entices BW players that could be the future Flash, to just go to SC2 because its easy money. This will over time likely weaken BW overall. I don't think its a 1 way street where one cannot exist with the other. But I do believe that the article is wrong in the points mentioned above. I think the best thing for e-sports is for the community to establish several games under its core structure (CS 1.6, Quake, BW, etc.), and not remove said games because a newer flashier version comes out. this is a very good post as well. | ||
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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IamBach
United States1059 Posts
On January 08 2011 02:51 FrostOtter wrote: Sorry about that, I meant "the whole east Asia region (except Australia)" can keep BW. The rest of us will be living in the present. WOW you are ignorant. Idk what you mean "living in the present". So if blizzard releases wc4, will you just all of a sudden ditch sc2? If the only reason you play it is because its current, than that sounds pretty likely. | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
Broodwar will die the only question is how long will it take for Blizzard to finally kill it. I dont think Kespa or anyone could do anything if Blizzard is going to charge ridicilous amounts for the television rights. They will shutdown the BW servers as well, they always did that when they released a newer game, i remember that they shut down the diablo 1 servers like 2-3 years after diablo 2 was released and the same will happen to the BW servers its inevitable in like 2-3 years they will just shut them down. Not a big deal, since there is Lan and Iccup servers one might say but when they shut down the servers they kinda kill off fans too... | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
In other words, Blizzard poured how much money into the advertisement and development of SC2? If they for some reason have a dead game on their hands, how will they recoup costs? Blizzard, and in my opinion Activision, has a vested business interest in having a stronger hand in the money of the esports surrounding their game. They wouldn't kill BW, but they would definitely revamp it in order to put themselves closer to the center instead of Kespa. It would just move the interest of Blizzard from SC2 to BW. Also, I have read people saying BW peaked already in the Korean e-sports scene. If that is so, then "keeping BW" alive indefinitely would be a nice thing to do, but not very economical in the long run I don't think. Especially considering it is already an 11 year old game with 11 year old software with no real growth prospects. | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
I sure hope that sc2 does not die out. Why do people say things like that? It isn't going anywhere for a long time. The expansions alone will keep it relevant for quite some time. It has sold millions of copies, and is still going strong in sales(#3 best selling game during the holidays, just behind WoW expansion and Sim3). In other words, Blizzard poured how much money into the advertisement and development of SC2? If they for some reason have a dead game on their hands, how will they recoup costs? They have already recouped their costs by selling 3 million copies of the game in like the first month. No idea what the figures are at now... 4 million? 5 million? Do you think blizzard makes anything off esports? BW isn't going to kill SC2, or vise versa. People are so wrapped up in their own worlds and really over exaggerate the importance of their own views. How many thousands even millions of younger gamers out there, who hardly know what BW even is are playing SC2? The GAME WAS ONE OF THE BEST SELLING GAMES OF THE YEAR AND STILL IS ON THE TOP SELLING GAMES LIST MONTHS AFTER RELEASE. The game isn't dieing... it is a massive success. Just because people think it is an eSports failure(which it isn't.. yet) doesn't mean everyone will quit the game. The majority of people who purchase and play SC2 don't care about esports. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 08 2011 08:12 FLuE wrote: Why do people say things like that? It isn't going anywhere for a long time. The expansions alone will keep it relevant for quite some time. It has sold millions of copies, and is still going strong in sales(#3 best selling game during the holidays, just behind WoW expansion and Sim3). They have already recouped their costs by selling 3 million copies of the game in like the first month. No idea what the figures are at now... 4 million? 5 million? Do you think blizzard makes anything off esports? BW isn't going to kill SC2, or vise versa. People are so wrapped up in their own worlds and really over exaggerate the importance of their own views. How many thousands even millions of younger gamers out there, who hardly know what BW even is are playing SC2? The GAME WAS ONE OF THE BEST SELLING GAMES OF THE YEAR AND STILL IS ON THE TOP SELLING GAMES LIST MONTHS AFTER RELEASE. The game isn't dieing... it is a massive success. Just because people think it is an eSports failure(which it isn't.. yet) doesn't mean everyone will quit the game. The majority of people who purchase and play SC2 don't care about esports. This is exactly the problem, the majority does not care about Esports, so you can have incredibly high sales, the game itself or the ladder won't die. But the E-sports scene/pro side has potential of dying simply because it is not as interesting as a spectator ship, rather then playing it. Millions of people play WoW, yet the pvp arena system is a joke of an E-sport and is barely alive anywhere but MLG. Sales are not a good representative of the pro scene. (I know its a stretch comparing an MMO to a RTS, but you get my point) | ||
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Heaton31
United States323 Posts
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MavercK
Australia2181 Posts
unless that happens again or happens somewhere else sc2 will fail. simply because most foreigners are bandwagon hoppers and ship jumpers. "whats that? a new call of dooty?" | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
Millions of people play WoW, yet the pvp arena system is a joke of an E-sport and is barely alive anywhere but MLG. Sales are not a good representative of the pro scene. (I know its a stretch comparing an MMO to a RTS, but you get my point) Which is exactly my point, people in this thread over and over are making comments about SC2 dying.. or failing based on people attending a GSL event? They are equating the success of eSports to the game. It is 2 different subjects. People just need to discuss the eSport side of it.. and if that will work. Making general comments like "if SC2 fails...." is just dumb especially when all the proof is showing the game is massively successful regardless of anything having to do with esports. i think the main concern is BW has lasted aslong as it has because it has a great base in south korea unless that happens again or happens somewhere else sc2 will fail. simply because most foreigners are bandwagon hoppers and ship jumpers. Except that is 100% false. BW hasn't lasted as long as it has because of the pro scene or Korea are you serious? I use to hop on and play BW from time to time over the past 10 years because it was fun, not because SlayerS_Boxer won another tournament. Do you think the people that are on BW playing game after game of Big Game Hunters care about some Koreans watching eSports? I think you way overestimate the important of eSports in a games success. If there was no such thing as eSports SC2 will still be around for quite a while. The fact is, and the reason BW was great and why SC2 will be great and go on for a long time is because you can just hop on have fun and sign off. The best feature of BW and SC2 was that it offers a ton of variety in short bursts and people like that. You can ladder, you can play customs, you can do single player, you can do money maps, DOTA etc. You can take the game as serious or as casual as you want and not feel like you are being left behind. Unlike say an MMO where you have to dedicate tons of hours or a FPS which can be a lot of the same over and over, SC and BW both offered a ton of variety that appealed to a wide range and requires little time to have fun. It has nothing to do with eSports. | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3046 Posts
On January 08 2011 05:09 Deadlyfish wrote: Oh, and i think Sc2 is doing fine in Korea :D Not really. I'm working on another translation at the moment, and god damn, Koreans love asking this question nowadays: "Did SC2 really fail in Korea?" | ||
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MavercK
Australia2181 Posts
well i disagree with that but it's just an opinion i guess | ||
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TymerA
Netherlands759 Posts
Sort of off-topic. but the GSL should just be rounds of elimination. Its much better to understand for people who just tune in to enjoy a game and see their favourite player then to see a chart full of rocket science. Besides that, The GSLTeams should do it like BW does it. Makes it feel like a sport. | ||
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therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
The game was so diferent that it didnt work.... xD | ||
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