EPTFOMOS: BW will live if SC2 dies? - Page 11
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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thehitman
1105 Posts
Also with so many games going around in SC2 and in BW its hard for the fans to come on these "low priority" ceremonies and matches. I don't think that both games can co-exist, its just not possible and one game will eat the other popularity. Having Boxer and Nada may have spiked some interest but there needs to be some rivalries between players. For example Nestea vs marineking rivalry or fruitdealer vs ogsMC. Also spreading out the league would help, having 4 tournaments in 4 months is way too much and stagnation kicks in. Changing up the map pool will also help and having a team based league also. | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
On January 07 2011 16:31 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I agree, I think they should scale back on several things until the game is more mature. - No gigantic opening ceremony! - Make Ro8 bo3 and semis Bo5, its just too many games when there are still so many mismatches. Also, map imbalance becomes an issue when you have to play 7 games, and they dont have their own map pool. Would be my first two changes I guess. Maybe slow down the pace a little too, having a game a day is a lot when there arent really many big names yet. and jinro wins this thread with the most constructive answer | ||
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
As far as I am aware, Starcraft isn't the only e-sports game out there. There's counterstrike, halo, WoW, god knows what. Are all of those dead to rights because Brood War already exists? I think the world can handle more than one e-sports game, just saying. I understand that the Starcraft name/brand encompassing two very different games with their own pro circuits could cause some confusion, but I don't think it's enough to cause a life-or-death struggle between the two. As for if one game must fall, I pick Brood War. If anything, the game is played out. I must admit I'm not a huge follower of the BW scene, but can anyone really name something truly innovative that happened in the BW pro scene in the last two or three years? I'm not talking about "Dragoon on 23 instead of 25", I'm talking radical new playstyles, the way we currently see/saw with SC2 and experienced way back in BW. Simply put: when it gets the right additions and fixes it needs to become an equal to BW, SC2 has so much more potential for new stuff, exciting stuff and a large viewership than the 12-year old BW that is, in my opinion, way past its prime. The lower entry barrier that exists currently can funnel new players into the game that would never have attempted to in BW, as well. Those lowly players might evolve into the Jaedongs of tomorrow. There are some 8-12 new units still to be revealed in HotS and LotV, who knows what the game will evolve into and all the cool things that they can bring into the game. Many top players are still struggling with the most basic stuff such as constant chronoboosting in lategame, warp prisms are still largely untouched (especially in large battles) - there is just so much left to discover in SC2 that frankly, I'd rather watch that game unfold than watch the same refined strategies from BW over and over. Note: I really do think BW has it's place, and rightfully so. Even when Sc2 is out, I still play occasionally. However, BW has had a heck of a run and truth be told, I'd like to see things shaken up a bit. | ||
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Hatsu
United Kingdom474 Posts
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Flying_Cake
Canada117 Posts
There you go. And BTW, theres 2 expansion coming so the game will change alot (for the best). | ||
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FrostOtter
United States537 Posts
On January 08 2011 07:31 gen.Sun wrote: Korean esports doesn't come at the expense of our esports... If we had a league I think everyone would watch it, Koreans would too. We don't have a league. I agree that if we had a league everyone would watch it. The question is, how exactly are we supposed to have a league when we send all of our players to Korea to play in theirs? Korean esports doesn't come at the expense of our esports, but our participation in Korean esports does. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
Like the article said, there's other esport games, albeit smaller than bw. There was never much rivalry between BW and War3 either. Most if not all of the bitterness arises from the way Blizzard has handled the SC2 launch, the lawsuits and what have you. It just came off as supreme arrogance on their part, what is there to like about that? At the end of the day, if people want to watch one of the games, they will watch. Despite all the backroom drama the leagues are still going on, and so is GSL. If the game is an entertaining esport people will tune in. Likewise if it isn't entertaining the viewership will reflect that. If SC2 fails, we don't really need to look to external factors. Sure they play a part, but ultimately if people like something they'll watch. And if BW wanes and dies, like one day eventually it has to, hopefully there is a worthy game to pick up the torch | ||
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wankey
98 Posts
Then GSL 2, epic finishing match between Nestea and Foxor. So 2 epic GSLs, and then GSL3, some idiot guy cheesed his way to the top. They should've stopped this immediately. There should be rules to stop this kind of play. And what happened? 4-1 victory, completely utter ownage. Before the smoke from GSL2 even settled, we were onto GSL 3. I found that incredibly tiring to watch. This whole convulted version for GSL4 is now way too messy. Class A, Class S, what gives a crap what do these classes even mean nobody knows. They're trying to expand the GSL into a multiclass sport but they don't have the manpower or the viewer interest to do such a thing. To be brutally honest, eSports is never going to spin up in the west, basically because of culture. Can you imagine college girls rooting for Boxor? I can't. Can you imagine girls pinning up posters of Idra in their rooms? I seriously cannot. You need a completely 180 in western culture for eSports to have any standing. eSports lives and dies in Asia, it will never become as big here as it is in Asia unless the west completely changes the way it's behaved in the last 3000 years. I think Blizzard failed making SC2 an eSports game. There is no community in the new SC2. Even starting with chat channels. The main screen of SC2 is a boring news screen. They should've focused on clans, guilds and chat channels first, then created an RTS around that. | ||
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kidd
United States2848 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4315 Posts
On January 07 2011 13:43 puppykiller wrote: Would Blizzard ever destroy the BW servers out of rage that sc2 fails? They would be attacking their own fans, it's absurd. you can still play war2BNE on bnet , why would they remove the servers? not to mention war3 has more players than brood war on bnet. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On January 08 2011 10:19 kidd wrote: I hope both live, but I gotta be honest. I'm pretty bored with the code S groups, it's not nearly as exciting as the straight up 64 man tournament. They needed to wait, SC2 scene isn't big enough for the code S format to do really well. With that said, I think if bw dies, sc2 will live, but bw won't live forever whether sc2 lives or dies. I have a feeling this group system is gonna end up being beneficial for the final stages of the tournament. I was just now reviewing group winners and I see no real all in/cheese player going through. I think this bo1 group system has elevated risks of all-ining too highly, thus players who normally have been cheesing a lot are not, and are losing. I'm sure the final stages of GSL4 are gonna be amazing, if BoxeR and NaDa's games are any indication. | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
On January 08 2011 08:08 idonthinksobro wrote: Well. fans think BW and SC2 could exist both at the same time but blizzard tries to kill bw asap, the reasons are obvious. More BW progamers will play SC2 it will become even more popular, lots of people just watch BW matches because one of the big names is playing it - viewer counts skyrocket whenever Boxer or Nada plays in the GSL. Broodwar will die the only question is how long will it take for Blizzard to finally kill it. I dont think Kespa or anyone could do anything if Blizzard is going to charge ridicilous amounts for the television rights. They will shutdown the BW servers as well, they always did that when they released a newer game, i remember that they shut down the diablo 1 servers like 2-3 years after diablo 2 was released and the same will happen to the BW servers its inevitable in like 2-3 years they will just shut them down. Not a big deal, since there is Lan and Iccup servers one might say but when they shut down the servers they kinda kill off fans too... You guys realise bw has LAN right? Righhht? Like iccup, is not a blizzard ladder/league. You don't have to accept updates to bw, you can just play that particular version howerver long you like. Blizzard cannot do more to harm the game than it already has regardless of what people say. For goodness sake, they're like suing everyone in the bw esports business already..>_> | ||
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FrostOtter
United States537 Posts
On January 08 2011 10:31 aupstar wrote: For goodness sake, they're like suing everyone in the bw esports business already..>_> It is almost like they don't like the way in which their property is being used. | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
On January 08 2011 10:13 wankey wrote: They're doing too much, too early, too fast. GSL 1 won, and everyone was excited about fruit dealer and people. It was one of the spotlights of GSL and probably the reason why GSL was so popular afterwards. Then GSL 2, epic finishing match between Nestea and Foxor. So 2 epic GSLs, and then GSL3, some idiot guy cheesed his way to the top. They should've stopped this immediately. There should be rules to stop this kind of play. And what happened? 4-1 victory, completely utter ownage. Before the smoke from GSL2 even settled, we were onto GSL 3. I found that incredibly tiring to watch. This whole convulted version for GSL4 is now way too messy. Class A, Class S, what gives a crap what do these classes even mean nobody knows. They're trying to expand the GSL into a multiclass sport but they don't have the manpower or the viewer interest to do such a thing. To be brutally honest, eSports is never going to spin up in the west, basically because of culture. Can you imagine college girls rooting for Boxor? I can't. Can you imagine girls pinning up posters of Idra in their rooms? I seriously cannot. You need a completely 180 in western culture for eSports to have any standing. eSports lives and dies in Asia, it will never become as big here as it is in Asia unless the west completely changes the way it's behaved in the last 3000 years. I think Blizzard failed making SC2 an eSports game. There is no community in the new SC2. Even starting with chat channels. The main screen of SC2 is a boring news screen. They should've focused on clans, guilds and chat channels first, then created an RTS around that. I agree, Blizzard's whole notion was around sc2 was individual play and minimal interaction. They were forced into creating chat rooms by the sc2 community. In interviews they even stated that the level of interaction required is just a gg at the end of the game. You'd think that after creating WoW they'd understand how critical social interaction is to a game. | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
On January 08 2011 10:34 FrostOtter wrote: It is almost like they don't like the way in which their property is being used. The reverse is true. They love it and want a big piece of the action. That's why they're trying to kill the bw scene, so that sc2 can prosper and make blizzard the sole authority in what would probably be the most popular rts esports(there isn't really any other rts that's worth watching really). To think, if they really wanted sc2 to prosper, they'd just make deals with kespa and sc2 would become much bigger than it is now in korea. These people have the tv channels, and the knowhow to do this! I'd even go so far as to say that bw would suffer greatly because of it. | ||
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Toxi78
966 Posts
First, let's state the obvious: these guys don't even pay, may they be 50 or over 9000, it doesn't matter who's there to see it live, they are out of the equation anyways. Imagine you've just discovered about a new sport and you'd like to see if you actually enjoy it before you go there, for example, boxing : the first 1 or 2 years you'll most likely watch matches on your TV/internet stream and maybe later , if you enjoyed it,you will attend a live event. Second, even if it dies, SC2 is not only about the "korean" scene : for sure, if this league dies, the korean scene will take a blow, only the better players will be able to continue to live as progamers, and let's be honest, Dreamhack showed to the world that only the top koreans are on the same level as the top europeans anyway. The foreign scene will take...no hit at all. The WC3 scene has been alive for about 8 years without relying on korean tournaments at all, only euopean ones and chinese ones in the end, which are so much more entertaining to watch because seriously, who is not annoyed to see 1 match every 32nd of the month...the format, from a WC3 fan POV's, is so much better in west. So now, stop saying it's going to die, you have no idea how awesome and big this might actually become: progaming is not korea, progaming is not BW, and it's going to be huge in the western world with ESWC/WCG/BlizzCon/KODE5/MLG/DreamHack/nameanyotherlegendarytournament. | ||
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mytent
United States156 Posts
Whats the viewership numbers. I bet the online viewership is INCREDIBLE right now for sc2. Just on a restream I was watching, there were over 1200 people watching. ONE restream. | ||
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MavercK
Australia2181 Posts
On January 08 2011 11:02 mytent wrote: LOL. Whats the viewership numbers. I bet the online viewership is INCREDIBLE right now for sc2. Just on a restream I was watching, there were over 1200 people watching. ONE restream. that really isn't that good. | ||
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FrostOtter
United States537 Posts
On January 08 2011 10:52 aupstar wrote: The reverse is true. They love it and want a big piece of the action. That's why they're trying to kill the bw scene, so that sc2 can prosper and make blizzard the sole authority in what would probably be the most popular rts esports(there isn't really any other rts that's worth watching really). To think, if they really wanted sc2 to prosper, they'd just make deals with kespa and sc2 would become much bigger than it is now in korea. These people have the tv channels, and the knowhow to do this! I'd even go so far as to say that bw would suffer greatly because of it. Why shouldn't they want a piece of the action? They own the rights to it? It doesn't help anyone's case that anytime anyone talks about an alternate ladder the discussion immediately goes to pirating. | ||
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