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On January 08 2011 20:32 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
eSport popularity directly depends on the number of players. if you cripple the amount of players by
* various fees
* no lan
* no illegal copies
* no custom ladders
* crippled custom map system
the game will not take off as esport.
i started bw with a cracked copy, i got a real license to be able to play battle.net 2 years later. before i played a lot on lan parties etc..
Regardless of any arguing about unpayed copies, they are necessary to achieve a real broad player base. (E.g. spontanous tourney at the office :-) impossible with SC2, but that's the way the player base grows)
lol at no illegal copies...
ye why dont they just make the game free? bet they would get more ppl -.-'
i dont think sc2 is failing i think sc2 players are failling 
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On January 08 2011 20:51 GizmoPT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 20:32 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
eSport popularity directly depends on the number of players. if you cripple the amount of players by
* various fees
* no lan
* no illegal copies
* no custom ladders
* crippled custom map system
the game will not take off as esport.
i started bw with a cracked copy, i got a real license to be able to play battle.net 2 years later. before i played a lot on lan parties etc..
Regardless of any arguing about unpayed copies, they are necessary to achieve a real broad player base. (E.g. spontanous tourney at the office :-) impossible with SC2, but that's the way the player base grows) lol at no illegal copies... ye why dont they just make the game free? bet they would get more ppl -.-' i dont think sc2 is failing i think sc2 players are failling
like it or not, a big part of BW's success was its avaiability more or less for free. only players will enjoy viewing ingame VODs. I know blizzard needs to make money, however the crowd does not care, so 50 bucks + massive restrictions = less players = less viewers = niche eSport
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On January 08 2011 20:51 GizmoPT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 20:32 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
eSport popularity directly depends on the number of players. if you cripple the amount of players by
* various fees
* no lan
* no illegal copies
* no custom ladders
* crippled custom map system
the game will not take off as esport.
i started bw with a cracked copy, i got a real license to be able to play battle.net 2 years later. before i played a lot on lan parties etc..
Regardless of any arguing about unpayed copies, they are necessary to achieve a real broad player base. (E.g. spontanous tourney at the office :-) impossible with SC2, but that's the way the player base grows) lol at no illegal copies... ye why dont they just make the game free? bet they would get more ppl -.-' i dont think sc2 is failing i think sc2 players are failling
it's funny but true actually. I wouldn't have played SC:BW if i couldnt get it illegally first. Later on, as i became fan of the game i bought it twice, as well az the SC2, but first i needed to get into it. It might seem strange for someone from US for exaple but mid/east europe and various other places buying games isnt that popular unless they know what they are gonna buy is good.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51709 Posts
to be completely honest,given that the fact that SC2 never really took off in Korea,it has done surprisingly well so far mostly due to Blizzard and their Strong arm tactics.I think if blizzard leaves e-sports to the community and actually focuses on how to make their game better,they can still make it back.
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Biggest bullshit article I've read since the one where they completely destroyed nada because he made the switch.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51709 Posts
On January 08 2011 22:12 Arcanefrost wrote:
Biggest bullshit article I've read since the one where they completely destroyed nada because he made the switch.
how so?
please elaborate.not that I disagree in any way.
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there are alot of players who will still watch BW games exclusively or both SC2 and BW.
don't think BW will die so easily just because SC2 came out.
SC2 means, surely that BW will have less fans, less support but not dead.
The ones who will not earn as much money from it will suffer the greatest losses, so don't feel sorry for a bunch of corporatists who own unearned cash from the work and talent of honest progamers.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51709 Posts
On January 08 2011 22:23 MindRush wrote:
there are alot of players who will still watch BW games exclusively or both SC2 and BW.
don't think BW will die so easily just because SC2 came out.
SC2 means, surely that BW will have less fans, less support but not dead.
The ones who will not earn as much money from it will suffer the greatest losses, so don't feel sorry for a bunch of corporatists who own unearned cash from the work and talent of honest progamers.
Did they not work hard to make the game?Have they not earned the money that they have made from it?
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On January 08 2011 22:16 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 22:12 Arcanefrost wrote:
Biggest bullshit article I've read since the one where they completely destroyed nada because he made the switch. how so? please elaborate.not that I disagree in any way.
I have to agree with the poster.. the idea that Blizzard will remove battle.net is ludicrous. Even if they do, there is still ICCUP and LAN and I'm sure Korea can put together something fine for Brood War. But they won't, especially with Diablo 3 coming up.
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like it or not, a big part of BW's success was its avaiability more or less for free. only players will enjoy viewing ingame VODs. I know blizzard needs to make money, however the crowd does not care, so 50 bucks + massive restrictions = less players = less viewers = niche eSport
WTF is wrong with some people in this thread? BW sold 9.5 million copies of the game. SOLD. BW's success was at a time when pirating software wasn't nearly as easy as it is now. It is crazy to think the game was popular because it was free/pirated? I bought a copy. My friends all bought copies.
People in this thread are coming up with crackpot theories that they have nothing to back it up with at all.
"SC2 won't succeed because there aren't free copies." Um... it sold 3 million copies of the game in 1 month, and was the #3 best selling game through the holiday season. How is it failing? People are buying the game, MILLIONS of them. People in this thread are talking like when you see an MMO die. The first month you get this big bubble then when everyone's free month is over there is always a mass exodus and the game is a ghost town.
Not the case with SC2 at all. It is months after release and the game is still one of the top selling PC games, 2nd only to it's WoW counterpart for the most part. It is rare these days for a comp game to stay a top selling for more than a month, much less what 6 months after release? It is still selling strong with expansions to come, more patches, etc.
50 bucks + massive restrictions = less players = less viewers = niche eSport
How can you even say something like that with no facts at all to back it up? People are buying the game in droves. People are enjoying the game. The problem is getting the millions that bought the game to want to watch it as an eSport, the problem isn't the success of the game in general. I've said that 10 times in this thread already. This isn't an SC2 is failing thread, THE GAME ISN'T FAILING by the exact definition of fail. If it is failing as an eSport so far(which it isn't either) then fine.
By your theory, since WoW has so many subscribers world wide it should be the biggest eSport. More players = more viewers = bigger eSport right? you just said it. WoW is a horrible eSport.
Honestly, right now it is just too early to tell. So there have been some negatives with the GSL. There have also been some huge successes for the GSL, like SlayerS first game getting millions of VOD hits, and having a few exciting finals, FD was a hit..etc. There have been as many successful moments for the GSL as fail moments.
Further, I'd say internationally there have been very few unsuccessful SC2 esport moments. MLGs were a hit, Blizzcon was widely viewed, Dreamhack was a hit... there are great and highly sponsored well organized tournaments all around the world this coming year.
If people want to disagree fine. But quit talking out of your ass when the facts show otherwise. Or at the least say something like "it is my opinion..." but quit just blatantly making things up based off of personally skewed opinions and perceptions.
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On January 08 2011 22:34 FLuE wrote:
quit just blatantly making things up based off of personally skewed opinions and perceptions.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Sweden33723 Posts
WTF is wrong with some people in this thread? BW sold 9.5 million copies of the game. SOLD. BW's success was at a time when pirating software wasn't nearly as easy as it is now. It is crazy to think the game was popular because it was free/pirated? I bought a copy. My friends all bought copies.
People in this thread are coming up with crackpot theories that they have nothing to back it up with at all.
For every legally bought copy, you probably have 3 pirated ones in China ALONE (totally random number, but you get the point Im trying to make).
Its also a lot harder for someone who doesnt own SC2 to play it at a Pc bang as I understand, you never actually had to own BW if you had a pc cafe nearby... More work for SC2.
I dont think the argument you are dismissing is as baseless as you seem to think it is, though I also dont think SC2 is gonna die in Korea anytime soon.
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On January 07 2011 13:49 ohN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 13:37 Megaliskuu wrote:
Lol fomos is so pro-sc2, BW doesn't need sc2, if sc2 died BW would just go on as normal. Although I for one would like to see both leagues do well (kinda). This. I'm perfectly fine with SC2 becoming really big in korea, it's not a bad game. Just don't touch BW.
Yeah, I definitily agree. I would like to see SC2 become big, but I don't understand why so many people try to attach SC2 to BW so much. I know both of their names start with Starcraft, but they're different games. They don't need to bother each other
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For every legally bought copy, you probably have 3 pirated ones in China ALONE (totally random number, but you get the point Im trying to make).
I'm not saying people don't pirate the game. But it is crazy to think a game is only successful based on the ease of which it is pirated. It isn't like all games can't be pirated and they still fail.
I just think there is no basis at all to say BW was somehow popular as an eSport because of pirated versions of the game? I mean it is just a crazy connection to make, and to me seems like it is irrelevant to the conversation. WoW is popular and that involves paying as you go. At the end of the day, people will find a way to get the money to get the game, but if they can get it free they will.
This was reported also a while back anyway :
With at least three million copies sold as of last count, StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty is doing just fine for itself, but that doesn't mean pirates aren't getting the game the old-fashioned, illegal way.
"According to TorrentFreak, a BitTorrent enthusiast site, StarCraft II has been illicitly downloaded via BitTorrent 2.3 million times. The download file's huge 7.19 GB size makes it the most data sent via BitTorrent for a single file -- 15.77 petabytes.
Again, just seems completely baseless to say "SC2 isn't doing as well as an eSport because they game isn't as easily pirated as BW." Not when the game is selling like crazy/downloading like crazy. There are more than enough people who own SC2...
Once again I go back to my point, it isn't about the number of people playing SC2, it is about getting a larger percentage of the current players to want to watch eSports from the people who already own the game, and number that keeps growing.
This is where Blizzard could help. When you log into b.net it would be cool if there was a big link that said, "Watch IDRA vs. JINRO play in the GSL!" Then an article telling you where and when to see it. Trying to get the growing player base to watch the eSport is where the efforts should be put, the game itself is growing and selling perfectly fine.
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On January 08 2011 22:16 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 22:12 Arcanefrost wrote:
Biggest bullshit article I've read since the one where they completely destroyed nada because he made the switch. how so? please elaborate.not that I disagree in any way.
If blizzard stops supporting sc2, they basically kill all the profits they could make with the expansions and sc3,sc4,etc... I don't think they'll ever do that, and certainely not to keep a 13 year old game going. The games can coexist together, but bw is getting so old that inevitably it will stop pretty soon. If my income depended on the success of bw, I'd hate sc2 too, but the way it's getting disrespected is just a goddamn shame. Unless anyone finds it righteous to call the gsl a failure...
It's one of the biggest esports scenes since bw, and it will be the biggest scne ever relatively soon.
We have t give sc2 the time it needs to grow, I bet that in ten years we'll laugh at the skill level the likes of mc had during these early stages. Sc2 will be huge, no doubt about it form my part.
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On January 08 2011 22:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 22:23 MindRush wrote:
there are alot of players who will still watch BW games exclusively or both SC2 and BW.
don't think BW will die so easily just because SC2 came out.
SC2 means, surely that BW will have less fans, less support but not dead.
The ones who will not earn as much money from it will suffer the greatest losses, so don't feel sorry for a bunch of corporatists who own unearned cash from the work and talent of honest progamers. Did they not work hard to make the game?Have they not earned the money that they have made from it?
Kespa did not make the game, Blizzard did
Kespa is the one proffiting from the work of players Boxer, Bisu, Flash, etc.
BroodWar brings cash into Kespa's pockets, not Blizzard's.
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On January 09 2011 00:55 MindRush wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 22:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:On January 08 2011 22:23 MindRush wrote:
there are alot of players who will still watch BW games exclusively or both SC2 and BW.
don't think BW will die so easily just because SC2 came out.
SC2 means, surely that BW will have less fans, less support but not dead.
The ones who will not earn as much money from it will suffer the greatest losses, so don't feel sorry for a bunch of corporatists who own unearned cash from the work and talent of honest progamers. Did they not work hard to make the game?Have they not earned the money that they have made from it? Kespa did not make the game, Blizzard did Kespa is the one proffiting from the work of players Boxer, Bisu, Flash, etc. BroodWar brings cash into Kespa's pockets, not Blizzard's.
Blizzard made the game with piece of shit maps that would never sustain competitive play.
Blizzard made the game without big-name sponsors willing to support E-Sports.
Yes, Blizzard made the original game, but Kespa made it the BW that we still care about.
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On January 09 2011 00:55 MindRush wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 22:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:On January 08 2011 22:23 MindRush wrote:
there are alot of players who will still watch BW games exclusively or both SC2 and BW.
don't think BW will die so easily just because SC2 came out.
SC2 means, surely that BW will have less fans, less support but not dead.
The ones who will not earn as much money from it will suffer the greatest losses, so don't feel sorry for a bunch of corporatists who own unearned cash from the work and talent of honest progamers. Did they not work hard to make the game?Have they not earned the money that they have made from it? Kespa did not make the game, Blizzard did Kespa is the one proffiting from the work of players Boxer, Bisu, Flash, etc. BroodWar brings cash into Kespa's pockets, not Blizzard's.
If it wasn't for the Korean esport side of BW, the game would be as popular as games like AoE2 or WC2 are these days, pretty much.
The prime reason why blizzard was able to create so much hype around sc2 is the fact that Korea made StarCraft into something way beyond a mere game, largely thanks to KeSPA, whether you like them or not. KeSPA greatly perpetuated the growth of BW, while blizzard never really cared after they released WC3 and later on WoW.
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If starcraft 2 succeeds in SKorea I will be very surprised.
From the beginning blizzard made many wrong decisions handling SC2. BW is a 10 year old proven game. SC2 is new but unbalanced, easier, less spectator worthy and unproven. In Korea I don't see how SC2 can just win the day over night. Also time is a factor, how long will blizz take to get SC2 to BW level? The safe route would have been making a BW 2 with better graphics and new units with small intelligent changes to game mechanic over time.
Blizzard went for different, but different doesn't mean better. And I enjoy watching SC2, but BW is more entertaining. It doesn't matter that SC2 is some months old...I got 2 options and one clears comes out on top. This is same mentality the Koreans have. Instead of trying to emulate the things BW did right, blizz tried to get creative, and I don't even see the originality.
In addition, I don't think it pleases Koreans for blizzard to push it's self into their culture like they're doing. Even if Blizz has IP rights, BW is a culture in Korea, they should handle the situation there delicately.
Lastly, BW had freedom. Blizzard right off the bat assumed SC2 would sell well, every one would love it, and is heavily dictating the game. No Lan support for one....etc.
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It's always better to have too few seats than too many. A room that seats 50 people that ends up having 75 jammed into it seems more impressive than a 5,000 seat arena that only has 500 in it. Really the is the only mistake GOM made. SC2 itself is fine.
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EPT
