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FOMOS: BW will live if SC2 dies? - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
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alexanderzero
Profile Joined June 2008
United States659 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-09 16:26:48
January 09 2011 16:26 GMT
#281
I want to see some actual evidence for the claim that SC2 is a failure in Korea. If we're going to draw conclusions about the success of the entire event due to there being 500 people at the opening ceremony, then consider that in the early days of the GSL there might have been just a few people at Mok-Dong studio watching the non-finals matches live. Now there are always at least 20 or 30 people, even for the Code A matches. If I had to guess the real truth, it would be that the popularity has been gaining.

Anyways, this kind of speculation is really quite worthless. Unless we get financial numbers then we're not going to know anything about the success of the GSL and of Starcraft 2 in Korea.
I am a tournament organizazer.
Lensman
Profile Joined October 2010
United States17 Posts
February 17 2011 00:14 GMT
#282
Attendance at events like this is all about marketing and promotion, it has little to do with the quality of the show.
CPTHammer.464
Profile Joined December 2010
United States37 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-18 01:12:45
February 18 2011 01:11 GMT
#283
If Koreans want BW to win out it needs to be updated with SC2 style graphics IMO...you then have a balanced game with 21st century graphics/gameplay.
Kantutan
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1319 Posts
February 18 2011 01:54 GMT
#284
What's the point of necroing this thread? Pretty sure it's already been established that GSL code S has not been a failure as exaggerated in the OP.
chenchen
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1136 Posts
February 18 2011 01:58 GMT
#285
On February 18 2011 10:11 CPTHammer.464 wrote:
If Koreans want BW to win out it needs to be updated with SC2 style graphics IMO...you then have a balanced game with 21st century graphics/gameplay.


Graphics aren't important to a game's long term success. Why do you think everyone prefers 1.6 over Source?
powerade = dragoon blood
Gudeldar
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1200 Posts
February 18 2011 01:59 GMT
#286
I'm getting really sick and tired of seeing this shit. For one its pure speculation that SC2 is going to die in Korea, GSL is still happening and GOM has never said anything about reducing the number of tournaments or lowering the prize pool or anything like that. Don't BW openings/finals have concerts that bring a ton of people to them?

Second, Korea isn't the center of the universe and even if GSL ends that won't affect anything going on anywhere else. MLG, ESL, etc aren't all just going to end because Korea isn't paying attention to SC2.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-18 05:37:30
February 18 2011 05:37 GMT
#287
On February 18 2011 10:59 Gudeldar wrote:
I'm getting really sick and tired of seeing this shit. For one its pure speculation that SC2 is going to die in Korea, GSL is still happening and GOM has never said anything about reducing the number of tournaments or lowering the prize pool or anything like that. Don't BW openings/finals have concerts that bring a ton of people to them?

Second, Korea isn't the center of the universe and even if GSL ends that won't affect anything going on anywhere else. MLG, ESL, etc aren't all just going to end because Korea isn't paying attention to SC2.

First, this article is ages old. Back when this was somewhat a genuine worry 'cause GSL attendance was ridiculously low. The reason was likely due to bad production value and marketing, which GOM has been very very good about rectifying.

Second. This article is ages old.

EDIT: I don't even get why it got bumped. The bumping post made no sense either...
Red.
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Spain228 Posts
February 18 2011 15:55 GMT
#288
broodwar fits better with the oriental culture (imo). The harder the game is, the bigger is the gap between kids that play for 14 hours a day and between guys that play 5 hours a day or not even that, I think they love that game and it wont be replaced... which is nice. We will have both sc2 and scbroodwar around the world, what could possibly go wrong ^^
"Truth is cold and tough; lies are warm and always give you an excuse"
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19399 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-16 12:55:31
October 16 2019 12:52 GMT
#289
It's really interesting to read this article today and compare it to the state of SC2 today. I feel like if there was no date on when this was published someone could assume this was written this week and not know the difference (barring the mention of Kespa). Also, noting the disclaimer at the top, it still stands true today that SC2 has done impressively well in maintaining popularity outside of South Korea. After 8 years some of the struggles in South Korea remain the same such as fostering a new and younger player base and also fighting against the mandatory service clock. However, I think those that have watched SC2 over the past LOTV years have become a stronger and more loyal fan base as scene by great turnouts to GSL events.

Edit: I also don't believe the state of BW now has any impact on the state of SC2 which makes me very happy. The water has very much settled on that discussion and everyone has resolved to enjoy whatever they want to enjoy without getting angry at others with different tastes.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
zenist
Profile Joined July 2019
30 Posts
October 16 2019 13:28 GMT
#290
On January 10 2011 01:26 alexanderzero wrote:
I want to see some actual evidence for the claim that SC2 is a failure in Korea. If we're going to draw conclusions about the success of the entire event due to there being 500 people at the opening ceremony, then consider that in the early days of the GSL there might have been just a few people at Mok-Dong studio watching the non-finals matches live. Now there are always at least 20 or 30 people, even for the Code A matches. If I had to guess the real truth, it would be that the popularity has been gaining.

Anyways, this kind of speculation is really quite worthless. Unless we get financial numbers then we're not going to know anything about the success of the GSL and of Starcraft 2 in Korea.


If it didn't manage to capture BW audience, then it is bad.
The Blade of Sparta
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
October 16 2019 13:33 GMT
#291
On October 16 2019 21:52 BisuDagger wrote:
It's really interesting to read this article today and compare it to the state of SC2 today. I feel like if there was no date on when this was published someone could assume this was written this week and not know the difference (barring the mention of Kespa). Also, noting the disclaimer at the top, it still stands true today that SC2 has done impressively well in maintaining popularity outside of South Korea. After 8 years some of the struggles in South Korea remain the same such as fostering a new and younger player base and also fighting against the mandatory service clock. However, I think those that have watched SC2 over the past LOTV years have become a stronger and more loyal fan base as scene by great turnouts to GSL events.

Edit: I also don't believe the state of BW now has any impact on the state of SC2 which makes me very happy. The water has very much settled on that discussion and everyone has resolved to enjoy whatever they want to enjoy without getting angry at others with different tastes.

I thought it was much more recent when I first skimmed it to be honest, although sickened by the TL conspiracy allowing their writers to necro as they please!

It is nice that the two scenes are a bit less annoyingly antagonistic and things have settled down where one can like both, or either game singularly and have their thing and enjoy it. Of course something is defective in you if you like neither game
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 16 2019 14:38 GMT
#292
I couldn't see this article being written at all today mainly because the esports landscape today has so many more popular games than back then.
DSh1
Profile Joined April 2017
292 Posts
October 16 2019 14:50 GMT
#293
On October 16 2019 22:33 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2019 21:52 BisuDagger wrote:
It's really interesting to read this article today and compare it to the state of SC2 today. I feel like if there was no date on when this was published someone could assume this was written this week and not know the difference (barring the mention of Kespa). Also, noting the disclaimer at the top, it still stands true today that SC2 has done impressively well in maintaining popularity outside of South Korea. After 8 years some of the struggles in South Korea remain the same such as fostering a new and younger player base and also fighting against the mandatory service clock. However, I think those that have watched SC2 over the past LOTV years have become a stronger and more loyal fan base as scene by great turnouts to GSL events.

Edit: I also don't believe the state of BW now has any impact on the state of SC2 which makes me very happy. The water has very much settled on that discussion and everyone has resolved to enjoy whatever they want to enjoy without getting angry at others with different tastes.

I thought it was much more recent when I first skimmed it to be honest, although sickened by the TL conspiracy allowing their writers to necro as they please!

It is nice that the two scenes are a bit less annoyingly antagonistic and things have settled down where one can like both, or either game singularly and have their thing and enjoy it. Of course something is defective in you if you like neither game


Never understood the NECRO NECRO NECRO crew.

On the contrary, very interesting to read the article in retrospect.
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1102 Posts
October 16 2019 20:02 GMT
#294
On October 16 2019 22:28 zenist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2011 01:26 alexanderzero wrote:
I want to see some actual evidence for the claim that SC2 is a failure in Korea. If we're going to draw conclusions about the success of the entire event due to there being 500 people at the opening ceremony, then consider that in the early days of the GSL there might have been just a few people at Mok-Dong studio watching the non-finals matches live. Now there are always at least 20 or 30 people, even for the Code A matches. If I had to guess the real truth, it would be that the popularity has been gaining.

Anyways, this kind of speculation is really quite worthless. Unless we get financial numbers then we're not going to know anything about the success of the GSL and of Starcraft 2 in Korea.


If it didn't manage to capture BW audience, then it is bad.

You replied to a post from 8 years ago and then used terrible logic in your response. By that same logic, as people have left the SC2 scene, they should have gone to BW if it wasn’t bad. Very few people went from SC2 to BW unless they were big BW fans/players in the first place. Therefore, BW must be bad.

Or, maybe the two games are different enough that they can appeal to different audiences. Worldwide, SC2 has been far more popular than BW ever was. It is only in Korea where BW was huge and always overshadowed SC2. But honestly, the popularity of LoL in Korea stomped SC2 while suppressing the BW revival, rather than one destroying the other. I guess LoL is just the better game.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10891 Posts
October 16 2019 21:10 GMT
#295
Well I personally hope they both thrive.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
zenist
Profile Joined July 2019
30 Posts
October 16 2019 21:26 GMT
#296
On October 17 2019 05:02 RenSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2019 22:28 zenist wrote:
On January 10 2011 01:26 alexanderzero wrote:
I want to see some actual evidence for the claim that SC2 is a failure in Korea. If we're going to draw conclusions about the success of the entire event due to there being 500 people at the opening ceremony, then consider that in the early days of the GSL there might have been just a few people at Mok-Dong studio watching the non-finals matches live. Now there are always at least 20 or 30 people, even for the Code A matches. If I had to guess the real truth, it would be that the popularity has been gaining.

Anyways, this kind of speculation is really quite worthless. Unless we get financial numbers then we're not going to know anything about the success of the GSL and of Starcraft 2 in Korea.


If it didn't manage to capture BW audience, then it is bad.

You replied to a post from 8 years ago and then used terrible logic in your response. By that same logic, as people have left the SC2 scene, they should have gone to BW if it wasn’t bad. Very few people went from SC2 to BW unless they were big BW fans/players in the first place. Therefore, BW must be bad.

Or, maybe the two games are different enough that they can appeal to different audiences. Worldwide, SC2 has been far more popular than BW ever was. It is only in Korea where BW was huge and always overshadowed SC2. But honestly, the popularity of LoL in Korea stomped SC2 while suppressing the BW revival, rather than one destroying the other. I guess LoL is just the better game.


Most BW pros did go back, same with Korean BW audience.
The Blade of Sparta
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5913 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-16 22:11:02
October 16 2019 22:10 GMT
#297
I wonder how well they will both do if Blizzard decided to pullback funding. That's the only thing that really worries me at this juncture.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
October 17 2019 03:20 GMT
#298
On October 17 2019 07:10 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I wonder how well they will both do if Blizzard decided to pullback funding. That's the only thing that really worries me at this juncture.

SC2 is way more reliant on Blizzard than BW is. BW survived on the community alone from 2012 to 2018, SC2 wouldn't get nearly as much support from the community.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33713 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-17 07:21:24
October 17 2019 04:19 GMT
#299
I do feel like the way it played out is that whatever effect SC2 and BW may have had on each other in terms of playerbase (positive or negative), all that was ultimately insignificant compared to how they were affected by other games in the market. With or without SC2, BW was on a slow decline in Korea since the the 2000's. In SC2's case, not having the shadow of BW at launch may have helped slightly at launch, but ultimately it was bound to get surpassed by other games.

TL;DR: If either SC2 or BW are "dying," it has very little to do with one another.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Mahanaim
Profile Joined December 2012
Korea (South)1002 Posts
October 17 2019 09:03 GMT
#300
On October 17 2019 13:19 Waxangel wrote:
I do feel like the way it played out is that whatever effect SC2 and BW may have had on each other in terms of playerbase (positive or negative), all that was ultimately insignificant compared to how they were affected by other games in the market. With or without SC2, BW was on a slow decline in Korea since the the 2000's. In SC2's case, not having the shadow of BW at launch may have helped slightly at launch, but ultimately it was bound to get surpassed by other games.

TL;DR: If either SC2 or BW are "dying," it has very little to do with one another.


Very true. At this point, I don't think there are many people left who would say either game has to "die" in order for the other brother to live.
Celebrating Starcraft since... a long time ago.
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