|
Also the fact I can't even bother to watch GSL at all anymore
I will watch ret and jinro/idra but that's it. It's just so boring on these horrible maps, half the time the worse player wins because of some imbalance on the map. Seriously just so boring when only some maps have good games and that's usually dependent on not spawning right next to your opponent.
Overall Small Maps
No real Macro friendly maps (without destructible rocks or highground everywhere creating stupid cheeses)
Horribly unbalanced maps staying in the pool for way longer than they should because blizz is lazy/uninterested in supporting SC2.
Honestly I would have watched GSL if they had new / interesting / good maps.
|
It's threads like these that give me the motivation for climbing the ladder.
|
if the custom games section wasn't made in the way it was it might have been better but as is no one will want to wait in a iccup map, or any other new map for that matter, for however long it takes to get non ladder games. this is only compounded by the lack of chat channels, hopefully introducing that will change things a little for the better but i think the way battlenet2.0 has been made deserves it share of blame too.
its also a bit of a shame people don't really use #tlpickup much as well.
|
Theres a few maps i checked off, and yeah, we could use alot more maps.
However it hasnt been all that long since release so im content for the time being. Id like some new maps within the next... say 6 months and ill be good
|
[x] I rage at the Map Pool harder than when Idra does against cheesy terrans.
Not even joking. I usually don't rage at my opponent, I just rage at the stupid maps that sure have a big influence on the outcome of my and everyone elses games. And yes, I do believe that some of my losses are because of the maps and not because I'm worse than my opponent.
|
|
|
I'm not at the point where my victories or losses are really affected by the maps (platinum), but I really am sick of seeing the same maps. The ICCup maps are great, but without an easy way to find people to play with, the wait times are too frustrating.
|
Blizzard needs to just expand the size of the maps, then not balance the game for 2 months. If, at the end of that period, terran actually suffers as much as some people chose to believe, buff them. but at this point, the fact that 2 rax can apply godly amounts of pressure while at the same time being perfectly safe to execute is just a joke.
|
It was so sad that TSL3 did not include at least one iccup map. I thought teamliquid might set a good example. 
I know that they aren't on the ladder, but you've got to start somewhere.
|
I'm not sure exactly what's holding back tournament organizers (other than GSL) from using maps outside of the pool. I feel like if a few big ones (cough*TSL*cough) started using other maps, it could catch on and become standard, which would almost certainly be very good for the game.
|
The worry is that without an easy way to practice the maps, since custom melee games are not a big thing, open tournaments such as TSL and GSL will favor players on teams which provide practice partners rather than being neutral. A lot of people practice with randoms on the ladder and would be hurt by it if they could not practice on some of the maps being used in the pool.
I think, though, that if tournaments used these maps then custom games featuring them might become more common.
Blizzard won't do anything unless there's real pressure on them. GSL or someone needs to say to them "this shit sucks change it" and maybe they will.
|
Dumbest allegation ever. The only people who care about the map pool are Liquidian's, and they will never lose interest in E-sports. If anything, the people who will help E-sports grow ("casuals") would probably be in favor of the map pool since it leads to more exciting, "dynamic", action packed all in filled games.
I frequent a pretty knowledgeable MMA site (perhaps too knowledgeable, bordering on elitism). It's a pretty widely known fact that casual MMA fans are the ones who keep the sport alive. Casuals are the ones buying T-shirts and PPV's, which "hardcores" would never be caught dead in an Affliction shirt and prefer to stream PPV's. The point I'm trying to make is (keep in mind these are pretty broad generalizations) this: hardcore MMA fans enjoy MMA because of the technique and synthesis of multiple martial arts in a modern fighting atmosphere. Casuals like MMA because of the brutality, violence, and blood (chanting "stand them up" when a Jiu-Jitsu fighter is in the middle of a submission attempt is just one example; casuals only like to see KO's). Meanwhile, hardcore E-sports fans (in SC2) love E-sports because of the technical mastery, and casuals just like to see shit blow up. In a fast a manner as possible. As many times as possible (once again these are very broad generalizations but I think they are applicable). In that regard, short action filled (read: all in) games are what will increase the popularity of E-sports.
tl;dr The only people who care about maps are Liquidian's. No, the map pool (as is) will not kill interest in E-sports. If anything it will help. Stop bitching about the impending demise of E-sports.
|
On January 07 2011 10:46 bennyaus wrote:
I don't get why people are so harsh on SC2, the game is in its infancy... it took years for SC:BW to become the game it is now. As Tasteless said last night, nerds will never be happy, "Why isn't this perfect??!?!".
Because there's 10 years of BW to BUILD ON, not in spite of? We are not back to the dark ages are we now?
|
They don't have to make new maps, they just have to allow community maps into the ladder map pool.
I don't understand why it's so hard t_t
|
I'm really not sure why so many people think that changing the maps will magically fix the game...
|
the map pool is the reason why I don't really play anymore. I've only been playing 4v4 :/
|
On January 07 2011 11:37 lu_cid wrote:
I'm really not sure why so many people think that changing the maps will magically fix the game...
What would you say are the main problems with the game other than things such as the Lost Temple cliff drop and tiny maps making 1base timing pushes powerful?
It surprrises me to learn that some people actually DON'T want a macro game more than, say, half the time. In Brood War, macro games weren't boring. They weren't 20 minutes of sitting around, one big fight, and then that was it. Once people got good at the game, they had multi-stage gameplans involving lots of multi-pronged harass and timing pushes.
|
On January 07 2011 11:34 Omigawa wrote:
Dumbest allegation ever. The only people who care about the map pool are Liquidian's, and they will never lose interest in E-sports. If anything, the people who will help E-sports grow ("casuals") would probably be in favor of the map pool since it leads to more exciting, "dynamic", action packed all in filled games.
I frequent a pretty knowledgeable MMA site (perhaps too knowledgeable, bordering on elitism). It's a pretty widely known fact that casual MMA fans are the ones who keep the sport alive. Casuals are the ones buying T-shirts and PPV's, which "hardcores" would never be caught dead in an Affliction shirt and prefer to stream PPV's. The point I'm trying to make is (keep in mind these are pretty broad generalizations) this: hardcore MMA fans enjoy MMA because of the technique and synthesis of multiple martial arts in a modern fighting atmosphere. Casuals like MMA because of the brutality, violence, and blood (chanting "stand them up" when a Jiu-Jitsu fighter is in the middle of a submission attempt is just one example; casuals only like to see KO's). Meanwhile, hardcore E-sports fans (in SC2) love E-sports because of the technical mastery, and casuals just like to see shit blow up. In a fast a manner as possible. As many times as possible (once again these are very broad generalizations but I think they are applicable). In that regard, short action filled (read: all in) games are what will increase the popularity of E-sports.
tl;dr The only people who care about maps are Liquidian's. No, the map pool (as is) will not kill interest in E-sports. If anything it will help. Stop bitching about the impending demise of E-sports.
You are right that casual people don't "care" about the map pool, in that they wouldn't know much about custom maps nor would they be particularly interested but i think the point is that if the maps force a playstyle which is not spectator friendly or enjoyable then spectators won't enjoy the games and watch them in the future.
|
On January 07 2011 11:37 lu_cid wrote:
I'm really not sure why so many people think that changing the maps will magically fix the game...
It won't make the game perfect, but seriously... It would make a pretty big difference in game quality.
Can you imagine OSL/MSL/Proleague games on this map?:
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/wSp0M.jpg)
A slight exaggeration, no doubt, but that's prettttttty much what Steppes of War is like.
|
it's impossible to not hate the current sc2 map pool, at least if you played bw i think; it might just be my head still too wired to bw design/map pool, though i haven't even played it between 2005 and 2010. and no, i don't want to hear the "omg map pool is ok - game's just new" argument anymore, that one applies to the development of strategies at the individual level, and to overall (might even say, though imprecisely, metagame) unit balance, not to the environment of the matches, ie the maps. also, this is my personal take on the whole debate on the suckiness of the map pool or lack thereof
it's not necessarily that (all) the maps are bad, but things like close spawns on Meta or Steppes in its entirety need to gtfo right now. it's bad for esports, and it's bad for the gaming experience in general.
as an ex. of what i mean, i don't particularily like idra's play and only offrace zerg, but seeing him get eliminated by mvp last gsl 99% due to spawn positions (closest, on Meta), of all things which could have made a difference at that level of play, just made me rage and want to turn off the gsl stream right there.
meanwhile, maps like SoW make absolutely no sense to me, if i wanted a cheese trainer (def/execute) map i'd make one for myself and practice on it.
and what i'm talking about is a sentiment shared by a vast portion of the community, if not the overwhelming majority (seems to me that would be the case but i couldn't venture so far to assume this to be undisputable facts)
now i don't want a macro fest for every game when i watch or play, and i do understand the game design overall doesn't necessarily support the bw dynamics of play, but i wouldn't mind if the current decent maps would be kept, the sucky ones removed, if there were a bit more freedom and support for mapmakers, and a more dynamic map pool (dr. watson-blizzard, how'bout don't write it in all caps in blood that you and you alone automatically own the rights to any content any user creates and posts on your bnet - hmm, perhaps owning some form of shared ip rights to a map you create as a user and blizz and its licensees use for ladder and tournament purposes would motivate some creative and knowledgeable people to breathe some fresh air into the staleness of the by now putrid set of ladder maps we got to play on)
i do believe that ultimately all major issues with maps, similarly to race design issues and unit imbalance problems being raised by the community, will mostly be solved with the additional content in the two expansions to come -and not before then-, just like SC1 could only become what it is today after BW came out; but i think there need to be some steps taken by blizz in the direction of opening transparent lines of collaboration with would-be map designers so that we can have high quality and diverse map pools that make tourneys entertaining, laddering more dynamic, and custom game practice/funsies more enjoyable/useful for competitive purposes
should note i'm actually not playing sc2 right now, though still watching the gsl and major tourneys, but instead lanning some bw 1v1 with an old friend i used to play with, until i get some urging to play sc2 again. sc2, while an amazing game, can get aggravating to play sometimes for reasons which shouldn't impact the gaming experience so strongly (ex.: bnet suck, map pool - gimme back lan and more maps, faster, made by non-blizz designers if necessary, thank you)
also, that i'm an average player and great fan of both bw and sc2, so nothing in this post is motivated by any form of elitism or nostalgia
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
