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Map Pool killing interest in SC2/esports - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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zyzski
Profile Joined May 2010
United States698 Posts
January 07 2011 02:44 GMT
#41
shakuras plateau was the only saving grace
TYBG
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 02:46:05
January 07 2011 02:44 GMT
#42
On January 07 2011 11:34 Omigawa wrote:
Dumbest allegation ever. The only people who care about the map pool are Liquidian's


Right there, [citation needed]. If the maps make for boring games - and I have yet to see any evidence only TL posters think so - that affects the quality of spectating for everyone.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Keitzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2509 Posts
January 07 2011 02:46 GMT
#43
WE NEED ONE OF THOSE

"DOWNVOTE ALL MAPS TO PLAY CUSTOM MAPS"

BUTTONS!!

WHO'S WITH ME?!
I'm like badass squared | KeitZer.489
Eschaton
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1245 Posts
January 07 2011 02:46 GMT
#44
On January 07 2011 11:34 Omigawa wrote:
Dumbest allegation ever. The only people who care about the map pool are Liquidian's, and they will never lose interest in E-sports. If anything, the people who will help E-sports grow ("casuals") would probably be in favor of the map pool since it leads to more exciting, "dynamic", action packed all in filled games.

I frequent a pretty knowledgeable MMA site (perhaps too knowledgeable, bordering on elitism). It's a pretty widely known fact that casual MMA fans are the ones who keep the sport alive. Casuals are the ones buying T-shirts and PPV's, which "hardcores" would never be caught dead in an Affliction shirt and prefer to stream PPV's. The point I'm trying to make is (keep in mind these are pretty broad generalizations) this: hardcore MMA fans enjoy MMA because of the technique and synthesis of multiple martial arts in a modern fighting atmosphere. Casuals like MMA because of the brutality, violence, and blood (chanting "stand them up" when a Jiu-Jitsu fighter is in the middle of a submission attempt is just one example; casuals only like to see KO's). Meanwhile, hardcore E-sports fans (in SC2) love E-sports because of the technical mastery, and casuals just like to see shit blow up. In a fast a manner as possible. As many times as possible (once again these are very broad generalizations but I think they are applicable). In that regard, short action filled (read: all in) games are what will increase the popularity of E-sports.

tl;dr The only people who care about maps are Liquidian's. No, the map pool (as is) will not kill interest in E-sports. If anything it will help. Stop bitching about the impending demise of E-sports.


How in any way are fast all-in games "dynamic"? Dynamic means continuous change. There is nothing more monotonous than repetetive, all-in, 1-base games. Many posters here have mentioned not even watching TvZ games anymore, because they are so un-dynamic. People want to see action, yes, but they also want it to be unpredictable. Does your favorite fighter go for the same combination of moves every time? And does it always work? Probably not, and if they did no one would care to see it.
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
January 07 2011 02:48 GMT
#45
I played BW maybe seven or eight times when I was about twelve. I have no knowledge of the maps, I didn't play competitively enough to pay attention.

However, the map pool currently to me is rather bland. I'm not one to get into balance, however, as a Zerg player, I have JB downvoted and hate it. I can't win vs. T or P. That being said, I'm indifferent to the other maps. They do get a little boring playing over and over, but it helps me develop strategies on the different maps.
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
ProtossGirl
Profile Joined December 2010
England123 Posts
January 07 2011 02:48 GMT
#46
makes me lol when news comes out of 10 people turning up to see Boxer play..

seems this game is heading down the shitter, at least in korea.
And lets face it, unless your cap is on backwards and you say "bro" there is not e-spots in the west. its just halo and fighting games.


Blizzard could so easily fix this.
Map making isn't particularly challenging, and they have millions of tools to do it.
Time for some VARIETY.

Even if the maps are ribonucleic... err ridiculous i mean.. at first, at least start getting them out there, see what works and what doesn't, before the game stagnates too much
Phwar Gate
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 02:49:55
January 07 2011 02:49 GMT
#47
everytime I see a gsl game that is announced on Blistering Sands, Delta, Jungle or Steps, I'm inches away from turning off. They make for terrible games.

I stopped playing about a month ago also. Because of those maps. ANd now that they've removed my fav. map ? To little chance of getting a fun map. Can't stand rushing
Dead girls don't say no.
FrostOtter
Profile Joined September 2010
United States537 Posts
January 07 2011 02:50 GMT
#48
On January 07 2011 11:44 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 11:34 Omigawa wrote:
Dumbest allegation ever. The only people who care about the map pool are Liquidian's


Right there, [citation needed]. If the maps make for boring games - and I have yet to see any evidence only TL posters think so - that affects the quality of spectating for everyone.

Nor is there evidence that all TL posters think the maps make for boring games.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 02:52:57
January 07 2011 02:52 GMT
#49
On January 07 2011 11:50 FrostOtter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 11:44 UniversalSnip wrote:
On January 07 2011 11:34 Omigawa wrote:
Dumbest allegation ever. The only people who care about the map pool are Liquidian's


Right there, [citation needed]. If the maps make for boring games - and I have yet to see any evidence only TL posters think so - that affects the quality of spectating for everyone.

Nor is there evidence that all TL posters think the maps make for boring games.


Why would there need to be? There's evidence that a lot of them do, look at the forums every day...
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
TheAngelofDeath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2033 Posts
January 07 2011 02:59 GMT
#50
Map pool is god awful. They got rid of Shakuras because games lasted too long lol. The maps need to be larger, and less gimmicky. So more fun macro style can be played and less, "oh, its been 4 minutes, time to all in and win!!!" happens in big name tourneys. You would think they would catch on after all the hate with GSL season 3 for cheese. Seein as they sponsor the damn thing.
"Infestors are the suck" - LzGamer
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
January 07 2011 03:05 GMT
#51
Blizzard still hasn't said why Shakuras was removed or why it's STILL gone. It's really weird.
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
rolfe
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
January 07 2011 03:06 GMT
#52
On January 07 2011 11:50 FrostOtter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 11:44 UniversalSnip wrote:
On January 07 2011 11:34 Omigawa wrote:
Dumbest allegation ever. The only people who care about the map pool are Liquidian's


Right there, [citation needed]. If the maps make for boring games - and I have yet to see any evidence only TL posters think so - that affects the quality of spectating for everyone.

Nor is there evidence that all TL posters think the maps make for boring games.


on the first page of this thread there is a poll. it isn't exactly unanimous but there is certainly a large majority.
life will not be contained. Life breaks free, it expands to new territories and crashes through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously but there it is. Life finds a way
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2475 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 03:17:02
January 07 2011 03:13 GMT
#53
On January 07 2011 11:46 Eschaton wrote:
How in any way are fast all-in games "dynamic"? Dynamic means continuous change. There is nothing more monotonous than repetetive, all-in, 1-base games. Many posters here have mentioned not even watching TvZ games anymore, because they are so un-dynamic. People want to see action, yes, but they also want it to be unpredictable. Does your favorite fighter go for the same combination of moves every time? And does it always work? Probably not, and if they did no one would care to see it.


The map isn't the main factor of why people dislike watching TvZ. It's more so marine/scv all-ins are just so powerful early on that you can beat the zerg a good majority of the time. Hence why you see this on Steppes and you also see it on Shakaras.

It's either...

Map is too small.
Map has too many cliffs.
Map has too many small chokes.

I really don't think maps are that bad. Apparently TvZ close positions on metal or lost temple are not favorable for the zerg (yeah i agree with that) or maybe that's just because zerg early game sucks or terran early game is too strong (weird didn't we hear blizzard say this before?)

Pretty soon with all this map complaining we're just going to have a 256x256 flat square map with no cliffs, choke points or water and just loaded with minerals in the corners, naturals at random spots and xel'naga towers at 1,3,6,9 spots!
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
Meteora.GB
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada2479 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 03:15:13
January 07 2011 03:13 GMT
#54
Map pool is apparently very "meh" with how things are. Shakuras Plateau, Scrap Station and Metalopolis are very good maps but the rest are either mediocre or bad (Blistering Sands, Steppes of War and Desert Oasis)

I think Blizzard should set up something like a monthly competition for map makers to make custom melee maps and add them into the official map pool based on public reception. These maps will be played under a different melee ladder or something. I think that would be the most efficient method in making more balanced maps that do not take resource and time on Blizzard's behalf.

Of course there has to be some guideline so they can't make maps like Fastest Possible Map's layout slip into the official map pool.
Sega92
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States467 Posts
January 07 2011 03:14 GMT
#55
okay, i got to "SC:BW always had new maps coming out because the servers and map pool in ladder was controlled by third parties" and realized...SC2 has only been out a few months...at this time in SC 1's life span BW wasn't even out and it was still a few months off...soo for now yes the maps are really bad but I know the ICCUP SC2 tourneys are using custom maps but just give it a little time
FlamingTurd
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1059 Posts
January 07 2011 03:20 GMT
#56
Too many Terran freakin favored maps pisses me off.
Nerf MMMT!!! Liquid`Ret Hwaiting!!!
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
January 07 2011 03:23 GMT
#57
for the love of god stop complaining about blizzard maps. here, support our own user maps by checking this out --> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180821
toadstool
Profile Joined May 2006
Australia421 Posts
January 07 2011 03:24 GMT
#58
On January 07 2011 11:39 Turgid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 11:37 lu_cid wrote:
I'm really not sure why so many people think that changing the maps will magically fix the game...

What would you say are the main problems with the game other than things such as the Lost Temple cliff drop and tiny maps making 1base timing pushes powerful?

It surprrises me to learn that some people actually DON'T want a macro game more than, say, half the time. In Brood War, macro games weren't boring. They weren't 20 minutes of sitting around, one big fight, and then that was it. Once people got good at the game, they had multi-stage gameplans involving lots of multi-pronged harass and timing pushes.


maps make a huge difference on a game. Look at every game played on Steppes of War compared to the epic games such as Clide vs Leenock on shakuras and Kyrix vs MKP on Xelnaga.


you won't see all taht sht happening on Steppes or Delta Quadrant. Or even Blistering Sands.
NEWB?!
muzzy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States640 Posts
January 07 2011 03:24 GMT
#59
Bad poll... I don't "hate" the map pool, but it should be rotated. C'mon Blizz, kinda sad that WC3 still has better B.net features than SC2
Snorkle
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 07 2011 03:25 GMT
#60
We can only hope that chat channels will save us. The problem again is that because of blizzards hold on the gsl i see to get into GSL code b "Code B : Top ladder players who are given the right to play in Code A preliminary."

sooo that means anyone trying to get into the largest tournament around will be forced to ladder and thus practice ladder maps. This leaves the fate of the map pool entirely in blizzards ever incapable hands.

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