EPTMap Pool killing interest in SC2/esports - Page 14
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Jstor
United States107 Posts
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smileyyy
Germany1816 Posts
On January 08 2011 03:41 LarJarsE wrote: The maps are repetitive and uninteresting; leading to similar games.... The new editor is so powerful, and we saw how much the development of new tournament maps lead to the growth of SC:BW. Blizz, please let user created maps be involved in the league maps! Its not like Blizzard forbids the use of custom maps lol. The problem is that B.Net 0.2 SUCKS BIG TIME  . How can any open tournament use custom maps if the participating players have no easy means to get games on them for training ?. Thats the only reason why Gom is using the Ladder maps. Blizzard needs to add sth like custom ladders. Tbh I dont get it why Gom didnt use custom maps for the Code S even Code A. Since anybody is in a team anyways .... Oh well I just dont want to see another 5min games with 2-Rax on Meta close position and idiots crying about Z being greedy and going for eco cheese rofl *rage* | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 08 2011 03:43 zerglingsfolife wrote: Yeah was just about to post this. I find it hilarious that the original guy was praising blizzard for making a nice map and it's really taken from the BW map makers. I didn't know it was a remake. Mind = blown. No wonder it seems like such a good map. It looks like a pretty good remake, from what I can tell. Definitely one of the best looking BW to SC2 conversions I've seen. I'm quite interested to see what games on this map would look like. Maybe Blizzard should stick to just remaking BW maps lol. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
Anyways, I think Blizzard is being a bit reluctant on changing maps due to their stance on having a "wide variety" of games on the ladder. The large macro maps are fine. It's mainly the small maps with troublesome rush distances and/or bad layout that are causing troubles in the forums. For leagues lower than diamond, I think the current map pool is fine. It may encourage cheese, but with more cheese comes a better opportunity to practice defending against cheese. I really hope Blizzard is much more dynamic with their map pool when dealing with the Grandmaster league. Up in those nosebleed-inducing ranks will be the cream of the crop players who will most likely be competing in the tournaments that we all so dearly love. Having a healthy map variety in the Grandmaster league would thus encourage tournaments to start using better maps. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On January 08 2011 02:40 Xeris wrote: Crossfire isn't unreleased, you can play it in custom games, its not bad. What you guys don't realize is that in BW, the original Blizzard maps were the only things used in events for the first 2-3 years of the game. It wasn't until Korean SC got big and the tournament orgs hired their own mapmakers that custom, more balanced/good maps started coming out. Give Blizzard time O_O! Its a point thats been made before, but why do we have to wait? It isnt like the release of sc2 killed off all of the bw map makers like some bizzarro horror film. They're still out there, and still making good bw maps. The main problem is that blizzards stance is that they dont care about the map pool, and want us to do something. The only problem is that tourney's wont make new map pools without those maps being on ladder so people can get practice. and blizz hasn't changed ladder for better at all. Its a vicious cycle that starts and ends with blizz. | ||
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DarthXX
Australia998 Posts
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
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Omni17
United States141 Posts
That is all. | ||
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FrogOfWar
Germany1406 Posts
On January 08 2011 05:06 DarthXX wrote: How would bronze players hate large maps? They wouldn't die to pathetic "rushes" at 10 mins into the game, and could instead mass 200/200 3/3 t3 air armies against each other like they love doing. Maybe that would become boring after a while too. I remember a noobish friend of mine back in BW complaining about the ICCUP maps being too big. To him, there seemed to be an overabundance of resources, making it unnecessary to fight over expansions. I can well imagine that beginners might feel lost on big maps if there's too much space for them to use and to keep an eye on and too many resources to ever use. But that doesn't mean that it has to be the way it is. There could be a couple more maps in the pool with the ability to veto a few more, or maybe two map pools, a noob one and an advanced one (which could be named more neutrally of course), letting players choose which one they want to use for laddering. As many others have said, it's a little strange that Blizzard remains so passive about this. | ||
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eu.xen
Germany352 Posts
They make so much money, sue everyone and their dog, but don't have the time and money to have like 5-10 people in the english forums and communicate with this awesome community? I don't get it. I can understand why they don't say exact dates on patch releases, cause not being able to keep them would disappoint people, but I hate it, that we don't know what they plan to do with maps and other features and don't answer to so many of the communities questions. If they take their following in Starcraft for granted, it will never last as an esports. Maybe they'll wake up if heart of the swarm doesn't sell well. We'll see. I would like to be able to say, that Blizzard WANTS do make good, but since they don't tell us that, I really can't say. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On January 08 2011 02:40 Xeris wrote: Crossfire isn't unreleased, you can play it in custom games, its not bad. What you guys don't realize is that in BW, the original Blizzard maps were the only things used in events for the first 2-3 years of the game. It wasn't until Korean SC got big and the tournament orgs hired their own mapmakers that custom, more balanced/good maps started coming out. Give Blizzard time O_O! As true as the past is, eSports isn't in the inception anymore. There are precedents and infrastructure set up to propel SC2 to make correct decisions and directions to grow the sport. It is not like there is a magical date we're all running towards when Blizzard finally wakes up and realizes the current map pool is not good for the longevity of the game. AFAIK the Koreans have spoken and more are watching BW than SC2. I don't think this is problem that will go away by simply ignoring it and continuing with an as-is GSL. I love the SC2 professional scene as much as anyone on these forums but honestly the games are stagnating. Since every game seems to end on either a 1base or 2base timing attack you never get to see decision making or crisis management. It become redundant. It seems like once I see a few tech structures I know exactly where the game is going and based on the tech structure of the opponent I pretty much know the outcome already. | ||
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Daria
Australia500 Posts
I currently stopped laddering because of the same old repetitive map pool, and only watch the GSL at this point. Even when watching it, i feel like 'oh steppes again ok'. It just gets boring. | ||
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
The GSL will not be using any custom maps unless blizz puts them into the ladder. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On January 08 2011 05:38 Donttazemebro wrote: What angers me the most is, that Blizzard is just not communicating well with the community. They make so much money, sue everyone and their dog, but don't have the time and money to have like 5-10 people in the english forums and communicate with this awesome community? I don't get it. I can understand why they don't say exact dates on patch releases, cause not being able to keep them would disappoint people, but I hate it, that we don't know what they plan to do with maps and other features and don't answer to so many of the communities questions. If they take their following in Starcraft for granted, it will never last as an esports. Maybe they'll wake up if heart of the swarm doesn't sell well. We'll see. I would like to be able to say, that Blizzard WANTS do make good, but since they don't tell us that, I really can't say. Yea, I also feel that blizzard isnt communicating well at all, we rarely know what they are thinking, they delay everything (common we waited those chat channels for 6 damn months) without any informations. They really need to do something about the map pool, although I see why they don't : the casual wouldn't understand. I know a lot of casuals who think that the map pool is perfectly fine and that it would be too hard to learn to play on other maps. They don't understand why we should rotate some other maps. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 08 2011 05:44 LyRa wrote: For the GSL, can GOM take all the really terrible Blizzard maps out and put in say, their own third-party maps? Or does the sponsorship by Blizzard make them have all Blizzard maps. I currently stopped laddering because of the same old repetitive map pool, and only watch the GSL at this point. Even when watching it, i feel like 'oh steppes again ok'. It just gets boring. David Kim said that tournaments should look at using fan-made maps. However, John the Translator has said that GOM isn't planning on implementing custom maps just yet because they feel that it would put teamless players at a disadvantage since all they have is the ladder and no abundance of practice partners. However, I'm hoping that GOM could shake things up by introducing custom maps into the Team League. The "teamless player" excuse can't really be brought into a league where everyone is from a team, so there would be no disadvantage to anyone. However, I have a feeling that currently Blizzard is using GSL partially as an advertisement for people to play on the ladder, hence the GSL map pool. I mean, if you see FoxeR abusing the cliff on LT with Thor drops, wouldn't you want to do the same next time you play LT? The ladder is Blizzard's beloved child, and they are trying very hard to portray it as a viable center of competition. | ||
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Dali.
New Zealand689 Posts
I understand that tournament organisers are treading lightly as the game is so new and underdeveloped but they should acknowledge that a huge component in BW's success was custom maps. Hopefully an organisation will step up to the call of the community and give custom maps a try. I honestly don't see what they have to lose (they can always go back to ladder maps if they feel customs were unsuccessful) and I'm sure most viewers would greatly appreciate both the diversity and improvement in game quality that custom maps would bring. | ||
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DarthXX
Australia998 Posts
Rocks: Are used to create a longer path to expos, a path which is shortened by killing said but rocks. Like the 3rd on Xel Naga. This expo can be taken at any time, but until the rocks go down its easy for the opponent to attack said expo. On the flipside you have rocks used in the opposite manner on Scrap where if you kill them its easier for the attacking player. Their obsession with back doors and using rocks as giant troll faces on expos (read: DQ, and any map with a gold) is not how rocks should be used IMO. Grass/Smoke: This stuff is spread out pretty randomly on most blizzard maps. Usually it surrounds a Xel Naga tower so you can obviously hide units that are sitting on it. Beyond this its not really used that well in the current map pool, you have a random patch in ur base on Scrap, shove a pylon/depot/ overlord over there and its completely nullified. On Worldship however this stuff is everywhere. Without vision from air units or very wide spreads you literally can't see half of the enemy army at the places where most battles take place which leads to very fun positional plays as your opponent can't see where ur moving all ur stuff. Unlike how they can in deathball battles on Metal or Xel Naga. Just one example of how new map features are not being taken full advantage of. Makes Watch tower control even more important. Speaking of which ... Watch Towers: Most maps these are just shoved in the middle of the map, along the main attack route, or they are off the side allowing you to easily see drops or outlying expos. Think it would be interesting if these played a more strategix role in the game instead of taking the place of good scouting. Some ideas that spring to mind are having one outside ur base on the low ground that has vision inside ur main making it hard to hide tech or something. Just feels to me that Blizz came up with these new features to fulfill one purpose and didn't think to apply them elsewhere. Just my opnion though. | ||
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Sockpuppet
119 Posts
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bashalisk
102 Posts
On January 08 2011 02:19 eviltomahawk wrote: 4. I think Blizzard still has an ace up their sleeve in the form of the unreleased map Crossfire. http://i.imgur.com/MK4R1.jpg Seriously, this map looks amazing compared to their other 1v1 maps, and I'm hoping that they will eventually replace Blistering Sands or Steppes of War with this much superior offering. Yeah, prepare for TvT on Crossfire. It's going to be slower than death. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 08 2011 06:01 bashalisk wrote: Yeah, prepare for TvT on Crossfire. It's going to be slower than death. At least it seems like it's going to be harder to marine+SCV all-in on this map. People want macro games, right? | ||
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