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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
On December 22 2010 19:24 blackh3d wrote: Have they cheated? No. It's like saying "I'm going to steal from you" when I have not clearly committed the act. So does that make me a thief just because I say it? *cough* if only Minority Report existed *cough*  | ||
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Rhokdar
Denmark240 Posts
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
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dakalro
Romania525 Posts
If MorroW and Sjow are close enough in skill but way ahead of everyone else in the tournament then the chances are that together they'd win the majority of rounds. Being even would mean there would be an extremely low chance of anyone actually going home with the only reason they'd even agree to be there. The fact that in the first round of the tournament only one of them played is proof enough the "leaks" occured before any games were even played and so did the talk with the organizers (and they would have been dumb to let the players fix a winner for something they didn't want to give away). For something not casted and with no spectators that is rigged against the players from the start I would have said fuck em and go for the prize, maybe next time they would think twice before trying to get money out of 2 players' names and pay nothing for it. This is not players trying to cheat the community, this is sponsors trying to cheat the players for free publicity without actually giving anything in return. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4758 Posts
On December 22 2010 19:33 decemberscalm wrote: The difference here is that the "athletes" are idly discussing it in a public stream and might not be aware of whether its legal or not where as you better believe Olympic athletes would be. You can discuss a plan without knowing its legality, and then ask if its allowed. For all intents and purposes this seems like what happened from what was said in the stream. I think this sums it up quite nicely. They saw a problem and discussed it and even contacted the tournament admins about that to ask them. Now, you can like them less for that, because you don't agree on their moral stance and all that, but they simply didn't do anything wrong that you can judge them for. | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On December 22 2010 19:33 Rhokdar wrote: It disgust me how many people, think it's okay, that they decide to fix a match. Really.. It disgusts me how many people can't challenge themselves to think one step further. | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
One thing though, why don't you guys discuss this matter via...sms on your cell phone O_O :D | ||
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aoe2fan
Sweden700 Posts
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
I guess both players should just play definitely for pride instead of practicality just like the Americans. Both of you guys are so cute, being nice to each other and all but what you're deciding is really affecting the esports community as a whole | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On December 22 2010 19:33 decemberscalm wrote: The difference here is that the "athletes" are idly discussing it in a public stream and might not be aware of whether its legal or not where as you better believe Olympic athletes would be. You can discuss a plan without knowing its legality, and then ask if its allowed. For all intents and purposes this seems like what happened from what was said in the stream. Ok, so they didn't know the offcial stance on 'prize sharing fixing' so they were discussing it and it happened to be on stream and got caught by some keen eyed people? Fine, they're more guilty of carelessness than malicious intent but as experienced progamers, they should've known ANY form of match fixing whether the rules are unclear is not right. | ||
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
On December 22 2010 19:31 Askesis wrote: And that's exactly what the 6k computer is: a risk of a payout that the house (tournament) if offering. The players were trying to collude to win an individual nonguaranteed bonus prize. And yes, there are rules against collusion. What are you arguing? I'm not really sure. Well if they actually were going to meet up in the final everytime, the victory is now guaranteed by not colluding and SjoW simply not playing at all. The house loses the prize and a top player. | ||
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haka
United States1414 Posts
On December 22 2010 19:42 aoe2fan wrote: By HuK not competing in this tournament he is basicly giving Morrow and SjoW the wins, therefore he is matchfixing. that is some fallacious logic there kiddo | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On December 22 2010 19:43 Telcontar wrote: THAT. This is the mistake so many people are making. If the rules allow for it, you should defiantly go for it to increase your prize winnings in the tournament setup. Theres nothing wrong about it.Ok, so they didn't know the offcial stance on 'prize sharing fixing' so they were discussing it and it happened to be on stream and got caught by some keen eyed people? Fine, they're more guilty of carelessness than malicious intent but as experienced progamers, they should've known ANY form of match fixing whether the rules are unclear is not right. | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
But I guess that is "OK" for some here. | ||
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cnas
Sweden640 Posts
On December 22 2010 19:24 blackh3d wrote: Have they cheated? No. It's like saying "I'm going to steal from you" when I have not clearly committed the act. So does that make me a thief just because I say it? I don't see why the allegations thrown against them when they've allegedly discussed it but have yet to act on it. If you have proof that they've done it, then by all means, call them matchfixers. but if no crime has been done, you can't simply go around claiming they're matchfixing. That metaphor means that your can never stop a planned crime. Like the police knows that someones gonna be killed but they have to stand and wait until it happens before they can act. I'll fix your metaphor. Lets say I tell you I'll steal from you next week. You can report it to the police but I wont be charged for stealing, just the threat. So the question is how to react to the "planning" of this fraud. | ||
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Luvz
Norway356 Posts
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On December 22 2010 19:47 Jayson X wrote: This thread is like a statement to what TL.net has become. But I guess that is "OK" for some here. But uninformed opinions are fun! Right? ... Right? :/ | ||
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Askesis
216 Posts
On December 22 2010 19:27 MythicalMage wrote: Eh. That's technically cheating in the strictest sense, but the thing that hits me is that they're the only two who could win it, in their minds. So instead of no one having it, one of them is saying "Why don't I give it to you?" So instead of wasting this awesome computer, they saw the opportunity and they're taking it. Yes, they are being opportunistic. They saw a way that they could take advantage of the system, and tried to do so. I'm having a hard time finding how you find this justifiable. The computer belongs to the tournament. They offer to give it away if one player can accomplish a very difficult task; otherwise, they keep it. I don't get where it is acceptable for the players to say "we're entitled to this computer, we're going to game the system and make sure we win it". That's the exact opposite of what is intended. I cannot say anything more to argue. If people disagree, I guess we just have considerably different ethical values. | ||
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