On December 16 2010 17:42 Markus138 wrote: I hope BLizzard will NEVER allow you (or others doing this) to make the tournament!
wanna "buyin" just to play? go play fuckin poker and stop putting this shit into sc2.
you mean.. you don't want SC2 to be as big as poker?
you know, i would often love to see SC2 on TV with intense action than watching a bunch of fucking poker table sharks stare each other down and act cook with their full tilt hats.. its fucking boring...
as others have said, if you dont find the appeal to "gambling" then stay away, don't post your opinion to get in the way of what other people want to happen
to all those people quoting me that I should shut up:
don't you realise what thise means? Everyone of us bought the game to enjoy it and some of us also for esports value. Suddenly guys are making tournaments with buy-in. So lots of people pay, a few win.
SC2 is a game, an esports game. not a GAMBLING game.
if one gets the permission others will get it too and soon you have hundreds of tournaments where poor people can't join. Great! That's what we want. Make only the rich guys winning!
On December 16 2010 18:05 rS.Sinatra wrote: its dumb to discourage this because of blizzard, do you honestly think blizzard is going to shut shit down if someone is making less than $10,000/year off running tournaments?
do you know how much it costs to hire a lawyer that will fight this for you?
also, how did poker get big? hint, it wasn't by following the rules of paying the rake (which gets taxed) at the casino... its by small illegal house games and other underground stuff that still happens everyday for much more money than SC2 could ever imagine
teamliquid probably won't allow this type of behaviour, simply because they are trying to put on the most professional image possible and have blizzard's approval on every turn, however, take this onto a different website and the attitude changes very rapidly...
i'd totally play a $5.00/$10/$15/ hell even $100 tournament even if there is some sort of rake, any day..
the more money it costs, the less people you'll get to play, especially for LAN, noobs know to stay away from bigger games. this is exactly like poker, only on a much smaller scale...
Yes I honestly think Blizzard will most definitely shut it down. Are you kidding me? They won't let this snowball out of control and that starts at the very bottom. They won't need a lawyer, they have one on retainer, they'll just send a cease and desist. Costs them nothing and gets the job done.
The question about these tournaments are: Will Blizzard be hold responsible for tournaments with bad outcomes if they allow illegal SCII tournaments.
Let us say that a tournament host starts with 5€ "buy-in" and it has success with 200 guys playing. After that a tournament with 10€, 15€ and 25€. And when the tournament for 25€ with 400 players is about to begin the host disappears and takes the 10000€ with him.
op - i've always liked the idea of swiss tournaments, and they shouldn't really be any more difficult to manage than a knockout/double elim etc, gl
On December 16 2010 19:50 Markus138 wrote:
if one gets the permission others will get it too and soon you have hundreds of tournaments where poor people can't join. Great! That's what we want. Make only the rich guys winning!
this is such a horrendous argument and you clearly have no idea how anything that's played for money like this actually works
also, how did poker get big? hint, it wasn't by following the rules of paying the rake (which gets taxed) at the casino... its by small illegal house games and other underground stuff that still happens everyday for much more money than SC2 could ever imagine
so it wasn't by some guy qualifying to the world series off the internet and making everyone think "wow, i could do that" then?
And people presented the argument that only the top tier players would participate, because starcraft 2 is actually not a luck based game and others would see no chance of winning (the comparison was to Poker; I think Poker isn't luck based either, but thats another discussion). Then this morning I read about the GSL and that they have a lot of BO1s in there. And how this could be a problem since this makes the results more volatile.
So why not have a BO1 buy in tourney? This would make it possible for lesser skilled people to actually win something, and increase the probability of these people participating. I think BO1 would make this much more a "try my luck" thing, and I think it could indeed increase the number of participants. Skilled players would still have a higher chance of winning, but more people would feel that they are able to compete. What do you think?
On December 16 2010 20:04 Koshi wrote: The question about these tournaments are: Will Blizzard be hold responsible for tournaments with bad outcomes if they allow illegal SCII tournaments.
Let us say that a tournament host starts with 5€ "buy-in" and it has success with 200 guys playing. After that a tournament with 10€, 15€ and 25€. And when the tournament for 25€ with 400 players is about to begin the host disappears and takes the 10000€ with him.
The host doesn't have to be the one taking care of the money... it could just as well be a trusted member of the community.
On December 16 2010 20:11 hifriend wrote: Is it a good idea to run buy in tourneys in a game where maphack is so easily accessible and virtually completely safe to use?
There are already online tournaments with prize money. I don't see what special about this particular format.
On December 16 2010 19:50 Markus138 wrote: to all those people quoting me that I should shut up:
don't you realise what thise means? Everyone of us bought the game to enjoy it and some of us also for esports value. Suddenly guys are making tournaments with buy-in. So lots of people pay, a few win.
SC2 is a game, an esports game. not a GAMBLING game.
if one gets the permission others will get it too and soon you have hundreds of tournaments where poor people can't join. Great! That's what we want. Make only the rich guys winning!
Don't agree with this at all, if people want to play a small buy in tournament let them go ahead. Your "argument" literally makes zero sense. Just because there is a buy in does not turn SC2 into a gambling game. I see it as paying 5$ for the tournament experience and a chance at making a small amount of more money.
I think its a great idea, the more tournaments the better and if its hard to get sponsors then there is no problem with the players sponsoring the prize pool.
It makes sense that there should be some sort of rake. The tourney organizer should get paid for his troubles. Not sure why blizz would have a problem with that.
On December 16 2010 16:01 SuperBigFoot wrote: There are too many free tournaments that give prize money for you to be successful. Basically what I'm saying is, why would anyone want to join your tournament when there are hundreds of tournaments that they can join for free? If you do an in house tournament where people have to actually show up at a physical location, then that's a different story but doing an online pay to play tournament is a huge failure. Check the front page tournament listings for proof. This isn't texas holdem poker we're talking about. It's starcraft...
The prize payouts are garbage for most of the free tournaments, and prize structure is terrible too. Take US craft cup for instance, almost 200 people signed up for it, 1st place is 20 dollars. Hardly worth the time if you're in it for the money. Besides, there has been a lot of interest in doing some sort of buy in tournament - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176783
I think the purpose of the thread was to probe the interest and viability of it.
If you're playing starcraft II for the money you need to find a new hobby.
Oh like a lot of the pros do? Sure they like the game and are good at it, but what's wrong with trying to make SC2 tournaments more lucrative and worth the effort. Winner take all tournaments aren't worth the trouble IMO, as there's not much difference between getting knocked out in the first round or the fourth. There's absolutely nothing wrong with entrance fee tournaments. Poker does this, as does Magic the Gathering, Soccer, Karate, etc.
Just registered to give the OP my support. I know me and a lot of my friends would be down for this kind of tournament. We're not amazing, mostly 1-2k diamond, but the fact that you could be in the top half and "win" is a big draw, and it'd let us actually see how good we are since the ladder isn't a very good indicator with bonus pools and hidden ratings and divisions and all that.
I looked at the blizzard tournament policy and I see no reason why this wouldn't be okay with them. It's also not gambling because this is clearly a game of skill (that's what matters legally) and tournament entry fees are completely normal and natural.
On December 16 2010 16:01 SuperBigFoot wrote: There are too many free tournaments that give prize money for you to be successful. Basically what I'm saying is, why would anyone want to join your tournament when there are hundreds of tournaments that they can join for free? If you do an in house tournament where people have to actually show up at a physical location, then that's a different story but doing an online pay to play tournament is a huge failure. Check the front page tournament listings for proof. This isn't texas holdem poker we're talking about. It's starcraft...
The prize payouts are garbage for most of the free tournaments, and prize structure is terrible too. Take US craft cup for instance, almost 200 people signed up for it, 1st place is 20 dollars. Hardly worth the time if you're in it for the money. Besides, there has been a lot of interest in doing some sort of buy in tournament - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176783
I think the purpose of the thread was to probe the interest and viability of it.
If you're playing starcraft II for the money you need to find a new hobby.
Oh like a lot of the pros do? Sure they like the game and are good at it, but what's wrong with trying to make SC2 tournaments more lucrative and worth the effort. Winner take all tournaments aren't worth the trouble IMO, as there's not much difference between getting knocked out in the first round or the fourth. There's absolutely nothing wrong with entrance fee tournaments. Poker does this, as does Magic the Gathering, Soccer, Karate, etc.
as do WoW, CS:S, Halo etc.... also most sports have some form of money you have to pay out.
If you are on a football/rugby/basketball team in the UK you prolly pay a few quid every week to your team for things like pitch fees, training ground fees etc.
Most sport leagues require teams to pay a fee to play in leagues, cups etc.
Calling it a "buy-in" is where i think we are going wrong. A Buy-in is for gambling.... an entrance fee is for sport
Most sport leagues require teams to pay a fee to play in leagues, cups etc.
For most sports the money is for refs and admin costs. They are not actually paying to make money. A medal is fine because its not currency. If your going to start doing this i think you better look a little more into it, it might be wise to have the people of legal age.
Most sport leagues require teams to pay a fee to play in leagues, cups etc.
For most sports the money is for refs and admin costs. They are not actually paying to make money. A medal is fine because its not currency. If your going to start doing this i think you better look a little more into it, it might be wise to have the people of legal age.
Hope this helps, Adun
I'm not making money on this one, I am in fact loosing $50, because I'm putting that into the prize pool, anyway don't worry I'm going about this very carefully and legally. Thanks for the support.
EPT
