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On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG.
Put an upgrade on the Fleet beacon which makes shields block fungal growth!
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How do you remove a private chat channel from your list?
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
They will add some undocummented changes, 90%
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On December 11 2010 06:46 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:45 Legatus wrote:On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I agree that VRs will be better overall after the changes. However, I think the reason protoss players feel shafted is that Fluxvanes were supposedly removed because FG wasn't going to hit air anymore. Now that change was reverted and Fluxvanes are still not coming back. I think this was just badly managed by Blizz. It's not like Fluxvanes were OP or anything (especially after the last nerf) so it seems like a somewhat gratuitous change. Oh man I doubt anyone has ever tried to catch speed voids with FG lol^^
Well, I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that FG was useless against speedrays?? If so, how is FG doing against slowrays?
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On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG.
How about using a technique that already exists in the game and lines up perfectly with Phoenix control? Magic box FTW!
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On December 11 2010 06:44 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). You're right. Nothing fundamentally changed about toss. The only person to show anything convincingly solid and consistent has been MC with his insane aggression. Probably will be enough to bide us over til we get new units. Hallu is still not worth the gas cost. Obs still require going down the robo tech path, and we've not dealt with the core issues of toss. We'll see.
This is silly. Changes shouldn't be fought or encouraged because it is nerfing or buffing a specific race, they should be fought and encouraged for the sake of balance and not personal motivations. The Zerg changes didn't get reverted because IdrA said that it broke the game, they got reverted because it DID break the game.
Players shouldn't complain because their race isn't getting buffed, they should complain when the game is actually not balanced. I have seen no evidence to indicate that protoss needs more of a buff than they are receiving.
For the sake of argument I will talk about how the game was broken or made worse than it was before by the Zerg changes.
The fungal growth change makes ZvZ a nightmare and a more one dimensional match-up because there would not be a strong response to mutalisks other than mutas. The hydralisk comes to mind as a response but they are easily out maneuvered and countered by a ling/bling tech switch. I wouldn't be particularly opposed to making it simply slow air units so that the opponent can respond to the fungal instead of just sit there and take it.
The multiple key presses was a silly change that fights against the ideal RTS experience. The least amount of key presses should be required to perform a desired action. The ideal number of presses necessary to do something should be the minimum possible to show the players intent. Holding down a key shows the intent to produce multiple units and is less presses than mashing the button. Also while mechanical skill is important to the game I doubt anyone but the most masochistic brood war veteran would argue that how fast you can push a singular key is an important part of balance.
Also someone was wondering about 2.0 v 1.2 the patch is 2.0 in the PTR but will be 1.2 on the main servers.
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On December 11 2010 06:57 Legatus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:45 Legatus wrote:On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I agree that VRs will be better overall after the changes. However, I think the reason protoss players feel shafted is that Fluxvanes were supposedly removed because FG wasn't going to hit air anymore. Now that change was reverted and Fluxvanes are still not coming back. I think this was just badly managed by Blizz. It's not like Fluxvanes were OP or anything (especially after the last nerf) so it seems like a somewhat gratuitous change. Oh man I doubt anyone has ever tried to catch speed voids with FG lol^^
Well, I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that FG was useless against speedrays?? If so, how is FG doing against slowrays?
Man, if you have ton of void rays then I have either ton of hydra or ton or corruptors/mutas, so what's the point of FG here at all..? I mean voids can't kite any of those units anyways.
If you say FG is OP then maybe it is vs marines, or vs mutas or vs phoenixes, but vs. VRs? That's just funny..
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On December 11 2010 07:02 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:57 Legatus wrote:On December 11 2010 06:46 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:45 Legatus wrote:On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I agree that VRs will be better overall after the changes. However, I think the reason protoss players feel shafted is that Fluxvanes were supposedly removed because FG wasn't going to hit air anymore. Now that change was reverted and Fluxvanes are still not coming back. I think this was just badly managed by Blizz. It's not like Fluxvanes were OP or anything (especially after the last nerf) so it seems like a somewhat gratuitous change. Oh man I doubt anyone has ever tried to catch speed voids with FG lol^^ Well, I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that FG was useless against speedrays?? If so, how is FG doing against slowrays? Man, if you have ton of void rays then I have either ton of hydra or ton or corruptors/mutas, so what's the point of FG here at all..? I mean voids can't kite any of those units anyways. If you say FG is OP then maybe it is vs marines, or vs mutas or vs phoenixes, but vs. VRs? That's just funny..
I don't play Zerg, but I think if you have hydras FG could be pretty useful, seeing as how air units (even slow ones) can just run away from them otherwise by abusing the terrain and attack somewhere else.
Also I never claimed FG was overpowered at all.
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On December 11 2010 06:20 NemA wrote:
What ever happened with Blizz stating that Ran have an adv over toss in the beg of games??? No Changes there, No surprise there.
Why do you ignore the fact they also stated that P > T in late game? Don't be so biased when talking about balance.
I'm sure they're trying to figure out how to fix T's skewed early game strength/late game weakness.
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amazing how they removed flux vanes, but after adding the air effect to fungal, they just dont add it back. well there is the toss nerf...
or like the zealot nerf to 38 secs, because it was too stong vs fe zergs? then they got 4 range roaches and leave the zealots that way? and they dont consider this marine/scvs bs too strong vs fe? brilliant...
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On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all.
the bonus to massive, did that come at the expense of +armour?
if not, void rays are probably too strong now, they were already shown to be really really good lately..
On December 11 2010 07:33 Lucius2 wrote:
amazing how they removed flux vanes, but after adding the air effect to fungal, they just dont add it back. well there is the toss nerf...
or like the zealot nerf to 38 secs, because it was too stong vs fe zergs? then they got 4 range roaches and leave the zealots that way? and they dont consider this marine/scvs bs too strong vs fe? brilliant...
its funny how some people complain
flux vanes was only part of the whole story here and the change doesnt affect the game nearly as much as fungal broke it, and thats neglecting the +massive damage buff
the zealots should be reverted tho, i agree there
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On December 11 2010 06:56 Existor wrote:
They will add some undocummented changes, 90%
in undocummented settings any chance for Ladder Reset?this so important for me,please someone reply ty...
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On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
In my opinion, the pylon wall isn't a nerf to protoss, but more of a fix for zergs, as both toss and terran kept doing it over and over to these poor zergs, while laughing in their 1base faces, while they were expending and gaining an unfair lead. (Yeah unfair, because only 2 out of 3 races could abuse of this trick, and it penalised a LOT more the 3rd race than the other 2).
And have you at least noticed that it's almost the only patch where protoss hasn't been nerfed? In fact they even got a few (minor) buffs. I really don't understand why you'd want any protoss to whine and QQ over such a nice patch for them...
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On December 11 2010 06:46 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:19 iamke55 wrote:On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I use the VR speed upgrade all the time in PvZ. They already did fine vs ultras and broodlords, and nobody makes BCs or carriers anyways so I see this patch as an overall nerf. If you see this patch as a toss nerf then you are sick. The phoenix buff is so huge that I think it's possible gonna be OP. What about voids I can't imagine situation where toss get super expensive fleet beacon just to get a void ray upgrade, unless the game is already won by toss. Also I don't think anyone would take that speed upgrade over 20% of dmg buff lol. Toss usually having problems with BLs so this might help a lot. Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:45 Legatus wrote:On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I agree that VRs will be better overall after the changes. However, I think the reason protoss players feel shafted is that Fluxvanes were supposedly removed because FG wasn't going to hit air anymore. Now that change was reverted and Fluxvanes are still not coming back. I think this was just badly managed by Blizz. It's not like Fluxvanes were OP or anything (especially after the last nerf) so it seems like a somewhat gratuitous change. Oh man I doubt anyone has ever tried to catch speed voids with FG lol^^
I meant as an overall nerf to the void ray, not Protoss as a race. Of course the phoenix and observer changes are welcome, and hallucination doesn't even matter since sentry energy was the limiting factor, not the research itself.
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Since we lost one upgrade we should get one on Dark Shrine. It seems kind of dumb to just completely remove something from the game.
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so fungal was reverted but flux vanes is still missing?
why ?
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Sound effects will no longer pop or cut off if buildings are rapidly selected.
does that mean they "stack" now? ..... that would suck big time.
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United States626 Posts
On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
Are you even considering whether or not there is a good enough reason to Protoss players to complain? As far as I'm concerned Protoss got buffed. Why would they complain?
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On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG.
Thank god you're not balancing the game. Quit complaining imo. You got buffed, and just because they removed a nerf from zerg doesn't mean protoss got nerfed lol.
Note: You do realize phoenix outrange mutas and can shoot on the run, so in an ideal situation, they should never even be touched.. Surely you've seen that silly attack they have.
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On December 11 2010 08:16 Rickilicious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG. Thank god you're not balancing the game. Quit complaining imo. You got buffed, and just because they removed a nerf from zerg doesn't mean protoss got nerfed lol. Note: You do realize phoenix outrange mutas and can shoot on the run, so in an ideal situation, they should never even be touched.. Surely you've seen that silly attack they have.
Are you dumb? The entire point of his post was that after pumping out all those phoenixes, FUNGAL GROWTH, which stops MOVEMENT, will get all his phoenixes killed in half a second. To FUNGAL GROWTH.
Protoss as a race is definitely messed up right now in my opinion, probably the weakest of the three.
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EPT
