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From bnet
We’ve been hard at work on refining the StarCraft II PTR and a new version has been made available. We have no time frame for how long this version of the PTR will remain up and it may be taken down without notice.
Several changes have been made to the PTR:
• Sound effects will no longer pop or cut off if buildings are rapidly selected.
• Fixed a display issue so the number of harvesters on a Vespene Geyser node will now increment correctly for all occasions.
• Using ALT-F4 during the opening cinematic will no longer crash the game.
• Fixed an issue where the auto-detection system was defaulting graphics to a lower resolution than recommended.
• Fixed a frequent Out of Memory crash for 32-bit OS systems on the PTR.
• Fixed a case where public chat channels wouldn’t show up on the list.
• Added a drop-down selector to switch channel instances.
• Chat channel throttles have been adjusted to allow for a more natural chatting experience.
• Bunker build time has been reverted to the original 35 seconds.
• Fungal Growth has been reverted to the previous functionality and can once again target air units.
• Holding down a key will once again issue multiple orders.
We would also like to take this time to thank our players for providing such valuable feedback after playing the first version of the PTR. Please keep up the good work!
Roll on the reverts :D
Back up to play now
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well I dont think anyone thought the bunker thing was going to be permanent.
fungal growth + hold key is a gift to the zerg players. but not like a christmas gift, more like one of those gifts you have to give your wife after you've cheated on her.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Nothing new, only interface improvements  I want this patch for europe, why it's only for SEA?
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I really want some new maps added to the ladder map pool, and the lame ones removed. The maps are simply horrible.
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Nice, chat channel throttle adjustment is very welcome. Hated the fact you couldn't type more than 3 lines in like 2 minutes.
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On December 11 2010 04:57 red_b wrote:
but not like a christmas gift, more like one of those gifts you have to give your wife after you've cheated on her.
so thats how it feels!
yay for fungal growth
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Sounds cool, disappointing they didn't introduce any new balance changes to play with, does this indeed mean that the FG/keypress changes were only changed due to community feedback???
Also, I found it impossible to use the old hotkeys, I was so addicted to the changes I made in the PTR... I'm just going to be stuck on the PTR until 1.2 goes live 
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On December 11 2010 04:57 red_b wrote:
fungal growth + hold key is a gift to the zerg players. but not like a christmas gift, more like one of those gifts you have to give your wife after you've cheated on her.
beautiful post
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Excellent...time to go spam phoenixs kekekekeke
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On December 11 2010 04:57 red_b wrote:
well I dont think anyone thought the bunker thing was going to be permanent.
They wanted to make from 35 to 30 sec, but now reverted to 35 so bunker is still the same.
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On December 11 2010 04:57 red_b wrote:
fungal growth + hold key is a gift to the zerg players. but not like a christmas gift, more like one of those gifts you have to give your wife after you've cheated on her.
Its more like taking a child his toy away to give it back so he plays more with it, wich will work no doubt.
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I knew Blizz couldn't possibly pass the FG and interface nerfs 
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On December 11 2010 05:18 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 04:57 red_b wrote:
fungal growth + hold key is a gift to the zerg players. but not like a christmas gift, more like one of those gifts you have to give your wife after you've cheated on her. Its more like taking a child his toy away to give it back so he plays more with it, wich will work no doubt.
It could have been a few things.
It could have been blizzard just saying 'hey, look, we're not stubborn about changes - in the future don't freak out about PTR things". I'm sure this will be cited whenever something contraversial happens on the PTR.
It could have been blizzard attempting to improve the game and not realizing the amount of frustration there is in mashing the key - or the implications of fungal growth not hitting air.
The first is a little conspiracy-theoryish, but I think it was closer to the second.
I really like the idea that if they have a passing fancy of a balance change they can just put it on the PTR - they don't have to fully test it in all matchups and then release it live. They can just let people mess around with it on the PTR and see if there's any problems - like free QA.
I like it.
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Well.. Hurray for interface change! Yaaa
on a serious note.. I wouldn't say the game is balanced yet, although it's quite close. But it wont help if they do a change, and then revert them a week after..
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I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
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No FG change is cool but now toss builds a structure simply for upgrades or...carriers?
Wow, if I want +2 air upgrades I need a building that only allows me to create carriers and improve the carrier effectiveness?
This feels very limited. Toss tech patterns already seem confining. This solidifies the you're one tech, stay there mentality.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
** throws up
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On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
troll? the speed void ray makes me think so. ive played 2000 games and seen speed rays 1 time as a zerg.
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i still think chatrooms are under powered.
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You mean 1.2? Since 2.0 would mean HotS....
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On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
This was an overall Protoss buff. Removing speed for voids is worth it to have +20 against ultra's, broodlords, thors, collosus, BC's, Carriers. Removing the pylon block was simply nerfing the single most retarded thing anybody can do in this game, even more retarded than SCV all-ins. Besides, you can still pylon block nearly as effectively with 3 pylons, and a cannon will still be up before any lings come if they 14 hatch, so don't worry, it hasn't been nerfed as much as you think. I've lost to pylon + cannon blocks at my ramp in the PTR, despite the nerf.
Cheaper observers, quicker phoenixes, and cheaper hallucination will all be very useful in the hands of good players.
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So they're keeping the weird stalement countdown?
Bleh
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On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
So now it takes 3 pylons or different buildings. At least you have the option to wall reasonably effectively. Zerg really can't do that. As for the speedray nerf, they're just changing the purpose of the unit, which btw, still hardcounters all of zerg tier 3.
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On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
Yep, zerg gain 0 buffs but also 0 nerfs, and the nerf on FG was ridiculous and only made ZvZ a crappy matchup.
Protoss gained a serious advantage with the Pheonix upgrade BUT STILL they whine like little kids. Come on, do you guys know Calimero? Protoss = Calimero = We are UP, Why always us, We always gets nerfed each patch.
*yawn*
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It can't be a coincidence that the Zerg changes coincided with the power of Zs in the GSL.
Lots of Zergs at the start.... oh dear they think they've buffed Zergs too much.
Then FD and NesTea get owned, top 4 is all P/T and then they revert them.
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ok that feels better. i like the reverts
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On December 11 2010 05:45 Klive5ive wrote:
It can't be a coincidence that the Zerg changes coincided with the power of Zs in the GSL.
Lots of Zergs at the start.... oh dear they think they've buffed Zergs too much.
Then FD and NesTea get owned, top 4 is all P/T and then they revert them.
This, I think Blizzard pays way too much attention to GSL. A lot of people do. European and Americans tournaments must be taken into consideration - and the power of Terran's in tournaments (perhaps it's because of their strong all-ins?) must be nerfed into the ground.
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On December 11 2010 05:30 Ummbeefy wrote:
No FG change is cool but now toss builds a structure simply for upgrades or...carriers?
Wow, if I want +2 air upgrades I need a building that only allows me to create carriers and improve the carrier effectiveness?
This feels very limited. Toss tech patterns already seem confining. This solidifies the you're one tech, stay there mentality.
You mean like the fusion core?
Yeah. It's fine. It also unlocks the mothership.
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On December 11 2010 05:25 Thehummel wrote:
Well.. Hurray for interface change! Yaaa
on a serious note.. I wouldn't say the game is balanced yet, although it's quite close. But it wont help if they do a change, and then revert them a week after..
Whenever I see a post like this, to me it says.... My [race I play] is UP and needs a buff or.....[race I do not play] needs a nerf.
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hmm seems the 2pylon wall off is gone but the 2bunker still works? i tested vs ai and i couldnt get a marine or scv in or out of the opponents base (i didnt have anyone to test the other side) and im not sure if the drone/ling pathing is different. Can anyone confirm?
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so in America patch is up?ALSO CHATROOMS+LADDER RESET IS COMING?
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On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE.
This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all.
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Where is the note of hold position units being pushed by zerglings?
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You could see the reverts coming a mile away.
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On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all.
Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing?
And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit.
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On December 11 2010 05:41 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). This was an overall Protoss buff. Removing speed for voids is worth it to have +20 against ultra's, broodlords, thors, collosus, BC's, Carriers. Removing the pylon block was simply nerfing the single most retarded thing anybody can do in this game, even more retarded than SCV all-ins. Besides, you can still pylon block nearly as effectively with 3 pylons, and a cannon will still be up before any lings come if they 14 hatch, so don't worry, it hasn't been nerfed as much as you think. I've lost to pylon + cannon blocks at my ramp in the PTR, despite the nerf. Cheaper observers, quicker phoenixes, and cheaper hallucination will all be very useful in the hands of good players.
Well you should've 6 pooled and forced the protoss to wall in cause one zealot doesn't hold.
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On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit.
I use the VR speed upgrade all the time in PvZ. They already did fine vs ultras and broodlords, and nobody makes BCs or carriers anyways so I see this patch as an overall nerf.
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Thank you Blizzard! I couldn't spam 414141441414414 at the beginning because it hurt my ears T_T
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What ever happened with Blizz stating that Ran have an adv over toss in the beg of games??? No Changes there, No surprise there.
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On December 11 2010 05:53 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:30 Ummbeefy wrote:
No FG change is cool but now toss builds a structure simply for upgrades or...carriers?
Wow, if I want +2 air upgrades I need a building that only allows me to create carriers and improve the carrier effectiveness?
This feels very limited. Toss tech patterns already seem confining. This solidifies the you're one tech, stay there mentality. You mean like the fusion core? Yeah. It's fine. It also unlocks the mothership.
too bad armory unlocks already everything....and fleet beacon is more expensive...
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Give some new screenshots with new interface or link to stream PTR
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blizz still not fix the bug where some ppl can't get on -__- what a shame
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hey hey ladder reset is coming?someone tell me ................
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so...they buff phoenixs to be good against zerg in 1.2, and nerf voids because of the FG not attacking air, and then they let FG hit air again? Yay ghosted protoss nerfs...thanks blizz :D
However, I like the bunker build time reversion, it was building too fast imo
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hmm... really wished the chat channels were more integrated into b.net but this is a good start.
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I can't play the PTR, the game keeps crashing before I even get to the login screen, any ideas?
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They really need to look at lings pushing hold position units out of their way. Lost a game to this today and it was infuriating. If this was only more commonly used by zergs maybe blizz might even notice, but it happens very rarely on ladder at least at ~2500 lvl.
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I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG.
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On December 11 2010 06:33 Multis wrote:
They really need to look at lings pushing hold position units out of their way. Lost a game to this today and it was infuriating. If this was only more commonly used by zergs maybe blizz might even notice, but it happens very rarely on ladder at least at ~2500 lvl.
I personally refuse to take advantage of this due to it having already been fixed by Blizzard once.
Anybody else taking advantage of the PTR to smurf a little bit? I'm all T all the time when the PTR is up ><
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On December 11 2010 05:53 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:30 Ummbeefy wrote:
No FG change is cool but now toss builds a structure simply for upgrades or...carriers?
Wow, if I want +2 air upgrades I need a building that only allows me to create carriers and improve the carrier effectiveness?
This feels very limited. Toss tech patterns already seem confining. This solidifies the you're one tech, stay there mentality. You mean like the fusion core? Yeah. It's fine. It also unlocks the mothership.
The structure that costs 150/150 and isnt an extension of a rugged tech path like the Protoss 3-way tech path - and which does *not* unlock the +2 air upgrades, cuz they're available from the start?
But yay for Mothership, that changes everything.
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On December 11 2010 06:39 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:33 Multis wrote:
They really need to look at lings pushing hold position units out of their way. Lost a game to this today and it was infuriating. If this was only more commonly used by zergs maybe blizz might even notice, but it happens very rarely on ladder at least at ~2500 lvl. I personally refuse to take advantage of this due to it having already been fixed by Blizzard once. Anybody else taking advantage of the PTR to smurf a little bit? I'm all T all the time when the PTR is up ><
Spam the hold position key and they won't run by.
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On December 11 2010 06:39 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:33 Multis wrote:
They really need to look at lings pushing hold position units out of their way. Lost a game to this today and it was infuriating. If this was only more commonly used by zergs maybe blizz might even notice, but it happens very rarely on ladder at least at ~2500 lvl. I personally refuse to take advantage of this due to it having already been fixed by Blizzard once. Anybody else taking advantage of the PTR to smurf a little bit? I'm all T all the time when the PTR is up ><
I certainly am. Like to practice off race or figure out my playstyle without risking my ladder record. I suppose custom games work fine for that, but I can at least avoid the hassle of meeting people who only want other high diamond levelers to play with and having to find another game.
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Sound effects will no longer pop or cut off if buildings are rapidly selected.
Oh man :D this is awesome, this is one of the things that made me sad in SC2. This and Hydralisks.
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On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
You're right. Nothing fundamentally changed about toss. The only person to show anything convincingly solid and consistent has been MC with his insane aggression. Probably will be enough to bide us over til we get new units.
Hallu is still not worth the gas cost. Obs still require going down the robo tech path, and we've not dealt with the core issues of toss. We'll see.
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On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit.
I agree that VRs will be better overall after the changes. However, I think the reason protoss players feel shafted is that Fluxvanes were supposedly removed because FG wasn't going to hit air anymore. Now that change was reverted and Fluxvanes are still not coming back. I think this was just badly managed by Blizz. It's not like Fluxvanes were OP or anything (especially after the last nerf) so it seems like a somewhat gratuitous change.
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On December 11 2010 06:19 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I use the VR speed upgrade all the time in PvZ. They already did fine vs ultras and broodlords, and nobody makes BCs or carriers anyways so I see this patch as an overall nerf.
If you see this patch as a toss nerf then you are sick. The phoenix buff is so huge that I think it's possible gonna be OP.
What about voids I can't imagine situation where toss get super expensive fleet beacon just to get a void ray upgrade, unless the game is already won by toss. Also I don't think anyone would take that speed upgrade over 20% of dmg buff lol. Toss usually having problems with BLs so this might help a lot.
On December 11 2010 06:45 Legatus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I agree that VRs will be better overall after the changes. However, I think the reason protoss players feel shafted is that Fluxvanes were supposedly removed because FG wasn't going to hit air anymore. Now that change was reverted and Fluxvanes are still not coming back. I think this was just badly managed by Blizz. It's not like Fluxvanes were OP or anything (especially after the last nerf) so it seems like a somewhat gratuitous change.
Oh man I doubt anyone has ever tried to catch speed voids with FG lol^^
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On December 11 2010 05:30 Ummbeefy wrote:
No FG change is cool but now toss builds a structure simply for upgrades or...carriers?
Wow, if I want +2 air upgrades I need a building that only allows me to create carriers and improve the carrier effectiveness?
This feels very limited. Toss tech patterns already seem confining. This solidifies the you're one tech, stay there mentality.
Hopefully fleet beacon and/or darkshrine will see some love with future expansions.
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Glad about the reverted changes. Back to playing normal Zerg lol.
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On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG.
Put an upgrade on the Fleet beacon which makes shields block fungal growth!
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How do you remove a private chat channel from your list?
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
They will add some undocummented changes, 90%
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On December 11 2010 06:46 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:45 Legatus wrote:On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I agree that VRs will be better overall after the changes. However, I think the reason protoss players feel shafted is that Fluxvanes were supposedly removed because FG wasn't going to hit air anymore. Now that change was reverted and Fluxvanes are still not coming back. I think this was just badly managed by Blizz. It's not like Fluxvanes were OP or anything (especially after the last nerf) so it seems like a somewhat gratuitous change. Oh man I doubt anyone has ever tried to catch speed voids with FG lol^^
Well, I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that FG was useless against speedrays?? If so, how is FG doing against slowrays?
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On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG.
How about using a technique that already exists in the game and lines up perfectly with Phoenix control? Magic box FTW!
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On December 11 2010 06:44 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). You're right. Nothing fundamentally changed about toss. The only person to show anything convincingly solid and consistent has been MC with his insane aggression. Probably will be enough to bide us over til we get new units. Hallu is still not worth the gas cost. Obs still require going down the robo tech path, and we've not dealt with the core issues of toss. We'll see.
This is silly. Changes shouldn't be fought or encouraged because it is nerfing or buffing a specific race, they should be fought and encouraged for the sake of balance and not personal motivations. The Zerg changes didn't get reverted because IdrA said that it broke the game, they got reverted because it DID break the game.
Players shouldn't complain because their race isn't getting buffed, they should complain when the game is actually not balanced. I have seen no evidence to indicate that protoss needs more of a buff than they are receiving.
For the sake of argument I will talk about how the game was broken or made worse than it was before by the Zerg changes.
The fungal growth change makes ZvZ a nightmare and a more one dimensional match-up because there would not be a strong response to mutalisks other than mutas. The hydralisk comes to mind as a response but they are easily out maneuvered and countered by a ling/bling tech switch. I wouldn't be particularly opposed to making it simply slow air units so that the opponent can respond to the fungal instead of just sit there and take it.
The multiple key presses was a silly change that fights against the ideal RTS experience. The least amount of key presses should be required to perform a desired action. The ideal number of presses necessary to do something should be the minimum possible to show the players intent. Holding down a key shows the intent to produce multiple units and is less presses than mashing the button. Also while mechanical skill is important to the game I doubt anyone but the most masochistic brood war veteran would argue that how fast you can push a singular key is an important part of balance.
Also someone was wondering about 2.0 v 1.2 the patch is 2.0 in the PTR but will be 1.2 on the main servers.
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On December 11 2010 06:57 Legatus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:45 Legatus wrote:On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I agree that VRs will be better overall after the changes. However, I think the reason protoss players feel shafted is that Fluxvanes were supposedly removed because FG wasn't going to hit air anymore. Now that change was reverted and Fluxvanes are still not coming back. I think this was just badly managed by Blizz. It's not like Fluxvanes were OP or anything (especially after the last nerf) so it seems like a somewhat gratuitous change. Oh man I doubt anyone has ever tried to catch speed voids with FG lol^^
Well, I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that FG was useless against speedrays?? If so, how is FG doing against slowrays?
Man, if you have ton of void rays then I have either ton of hydra or ton or corruptors/mutas, so what's the point of FG here at all..? I mean voids can't kite any of those units anyways.
If you say FG is OP then maybe it is vs marines, or vs mutas or vs phoenixes, but vs. VRs? That's just funny..
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On December 11 2010 07:02 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:57 Legatus wrote:On December 11 2010 06:46 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:45 Legatus wrote:On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I agree that VRs will be better overall after the changes. However, I think the reason protoss players feel shafted is that Fluxvanes were supposedly removed because FG wasn't going to hit air anymore. Now that change was reverted and Fluxvanes are still not coming back. I think this was just badly managed by Blizz. It's not like Fluxvanes were OP or anything (especially after the last nerf) so it seems like a somewhat gratuitous change. Oh man I doubt anyone has ever tried to catch speed voids with FG lol^^ Well, I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that FG was useless against speedrays?? If so, how is FG doing against slowrays? Man, if you have ton of void rays then I have either ton of hydra or ton or corruptors/mutas, so what's the point of FG here at all..? I mean voids can't kite any of those units anyways. If you say FG is OP then maybe it is vs marines, or vs mutas or vs phoenixes, but vs. VRs? That's just funny..
I don't play Zerg, but I think if you have hydras FG could be pretty useful, seeing as how air units (even slow ones) can just run away from them otherwise by abusing the terrain and attack somewhere else.
Also I never claimed FG was overpowered at all.
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On December 11 2010 06:20 NemA wrote:
What ever happened with Blizz stating that Ran have an adv over toss in the beg of games??? No Changes there, No surprise there.
Why do you ignore the fact they also stated that P > T in late game? Don't be so biased when talking about balance.
I'm sure they're trying to figure out how to fix T's skewed early game strength/late game weakness.
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amazing how they removed flux vanes, but after adding the air effect to fungal, they just dont add it back. well there is the toss nerf...
or like the zealot nerf to 38 secs, because it was too stong vs fe zergs? then they got 4 range roaches and leave the zealots that way? and they dont consider this marine/scvs bs too strong vs fe? brilliant...
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On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all.
the bonus to massive, did that come at the expense of +armour?
if not, void rays are probably too strong now, they were already shown to be really really good lately..
On December 11 2010 07:33 Lucius2 wrote:
amazing how they removed flux vanes, but after adding the air effect to fungal, they just dont add it back. well there is the toss nerf...
or like the zealot nerf to 38 secs, because it was too stong vs fe zergs? then they got 4 range roaches and leave the zealots that way? and they dont consider this marine/scvs bs too strong vs fe? brilliant...
its funny how some people complain
flux vanes was only part of the whole story here and the change doesnt affect the game nearly as much as fungal broke it, and thats neglecting the +massive damage buff
the zealots should be reverted tho, i agree there
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On December 11 2010 06:56 Existor wrote:
They will add some undocummented changes, 90%
in undocummented settings any chance for Ladder Reset?this so important for me,please someone reply ty...
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On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
In my opinion, the pylon wall isn't a nerf to protoss, but more of a fix for zergs, as both toss and terran kept doing it over and over to these poor zergs, while laughing in their 1base faces, while they were expending and gaining an unfair lead. (Yeah unfair, because only 2 out of 3 races could abuse of this trick, and it penalised a LOT more the 3rd race than the other 2).
And have you at least noticed that it's almost the only patch where protoss hasn't been nerfed? In fact they even got a few (minor) buffs. I really don't understand why you'd want any protoss to whine and QQ over such a nice patch for them...
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On December 11 2010 06:46 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:19 iamke55 wrote:On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I use the VR speed upgrade all the time in PvZ. They already did fine vs ultras and broodlords, and nobody makes BCs or carriers anyways so I see this patch as an overall nerf. If you see this patch as a toss nerf then you are sick. The phoenix buff is so huge that I think it's possible gonna be OP. What about voids I can't imagine situation where toss get super expensive fleet beacon just to get a void ray upgrade, unless the game is already won by toss. Also I don't think anyone would take that speed upgrade over 20% of dmg buff lol. Toss usually having problems with BLs so this might help a lot. Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:45 Legatus wrote:On December 11 2010 06:17 Alpina wrote:On December 11 2010 06:09 Karthane wrote:On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). Well i think most people are satisfied with the trade void rays got, no speed for 20% damage to masive. Since no one really got speed anyways. Plus the Phoenix buff is HUGE. This is a patch for Protoss. No real reason to complain at all. Agree. Now after some zerg nerfs were removed people start saying that zerg was buffed lol. Toss will (probably) get nice buffs this patch - phoenixes, VRs, obs, haliucination, so why should they be QQ'ing? And LOL at VR speed compaining, who was using that upgrade anyways? Now that VRs will do 20% more dmg to ultras, bloodlords, BCs, etc. it will be much better unit. I agree that VRs will be better overall after the changes. However, I think the reason protoss players feel shafted is that Fluxvanes were supposedly removed because FG wasn't going to hit air anymore. Now that change was reverted and Fluxvanes are still not coming back. I think this was just badly managed by Blizz. It's not like Fluxvanes were OP or anything (especially after the last nerf) so it seems like a somewhat gratuitous change. Oh man I doubt anyone has ever tried to catch speed voids with FG lol^^
I meant as an overall nerf to the void ray, not Protoss as a race. Of course the phoenix and observer changes are welcome, and hallucination doesn't even matter since sentry energy was the limiting factor, not the research itself.
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Since we lost one upgrade we should get one on Dark Shrine. It seems kind of dumb to just completely remove something from the game.
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so fungal was reverted but flux vanes is still missing?
why ?
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Sound effects will no longer pop or cut off if buildings are rapidly selected.
does that mean they "stack" now? ..... that would suck big time.
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On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays).
Are you even considering whether or not there is a good enough reason to Protoss players to complain? As far as I'm concerned Protoss got buffed. Why would they complain?
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On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG.
Thank god you're not balancing the game. Quit complaining imo. You got buffed, and just because they removed a nerf from zerg doesn't mean protoss got nerfed lol.
Note: You do realize phoenix outrange mutas and can shoot on the run, so in an ideal situation, they should never even be touched.. Surely you've seen that silly attack they have.
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On December 11 2010 08:16 Rickilicious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG. Thank god you're not balancing the game. Quit complaining imo. You got buffed, and just because they removed a nerf from zerg doesn't mean protoss got nerfed lol. Note: You do realize phoenix outrange mutas and can shoot on the run, so in an ideal situation, they should never even be touched.. Surely you've seen that silly attack they have.
Are you dumb? The entire point of his post was that after pumping out all those phoenixes, FUNGAL GROWTH, which stops MOVEMENT, will get all his phoenixes killed in half a second. To FUNGAL GROWTH.
Protoss as a race is definitely messed up right now in my opinion, probably the weakest of the three.
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On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG.
phoenix eat muta's alive, zerg NEEDS fungal to keep those sacks of fat called overlords alive.
Btw, ever tought of spreading your phoenix so they don't all get fungaled and pick of the infestor?
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Protoss buffs to air and scouting are fine and dandy, but when are they going to fix the Protoss early game against Terran?
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On December 11 2010 08:33 Barook wrote:
Protoss buffs to air and scouting are fine and dandy, but when are they going to fix the Protoss early game against Terran?
You should + Show Spoiler +Watch the jinro vs mc match
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On December 11 2010 06:27 silencesc wrote:
so...they buff phoenixs to be good against zerg in 1.2, and nerf voids because of the FG not attacking air, and then they let FG hit air again? Yay ghosted protoss nerfs...thanks blizz :D
However, I like the bunker build time reversion, it was building too fast imo
Umm void rays got a buff +20% damage? How would a zerg stop protoss's air without FG now that phoenix comes out faster? And who gets fleet beacon for mass void rays speed anyways? Thats like getting reaper speed to harass (lol).
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No one who does not play diamond should complain about balance issues, you need at least to have the basic mechanics down before you can correctly asses what changes might be needed... Even then it is not your opinion that matters, but the data blizz gathers from the game...
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Russian Federation481 Posts
They should make fungal to slowdown units like queens ability in bw.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 11 2010 08:43 Esp1noza wrote:
They should make fungal to slowdown units like queens ability in bw.
Then increase radius by 50% or double
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I still get the Same Shit about not having an associated copy of SC2 to my name......
Have had it since Midnight Launch, but nooooooo PTR says i dont have one GRRRRRRRR
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On December 11 2010 08:40 acidfreak wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 08:33 Barook wrote:
Protoss buffs to air and scouting are fine and dandy, but when are they going to fix the Protoss early game against Terran? You should + Show Spoiler +Watch the jinro vs mc match to see when
Knowing the timings of your training partner inside out while being the superior player is not how you fix the match-up.
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On December 11 2010 08:30 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG. phoenix eat muta's alive, zerg NEEDS fungal to keep those sacks of fat called overlords alive. Btw, ever tought of spreading your phoenix so they don't all get fungaled and pick of the infestor?
corruptors rape phoenixes. Sprinkle some of those in and you are off to the races
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No fix for drone drilling? Sad...
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Drone drilling is still disabled i think...
The reverts to the infestor fungal and the holding down hotkeys is excellent, perhaps these guys listen to state of the game?
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wait. so they actually broke drone drilling?. it better be something i can undo for my BW mod or i'll be pissed.
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On December 11 2010 08:53 Barook wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 08:40 acidfreak wrote:On December 11 2010 08:33 Barook wrote:
Protoss buffs to air and scouting are fine and dandy, but when are they going to fix the Protoss early game against Terran? You should + Show Spoiler +Watch the jinro vs mc match to see when Knowing the timings of your training partner inside out while being the superior player is not how you fix the match-up.
He has a point. In general there's a problem, MC just knew all of Jinro's timings by heart.
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The phoenix buff needs to be combined with the fungal growth change or else its gonna be more of the same for pvz.
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On December 11 2010 08:30 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG. phoenix eat muta's alive, zerg NEEDS fungal to keep those sacks of fat called overlords alive. Btw, ever tought of spreading your phoenix so they don't all get fungaled and pick of the infestor?
Storm also works amazing as well lol.
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On December 11 2010 04:57 red_b wrote:
well I dont think anyone thought the bunker thing was going to be permanent.
fungal growth + hold key is a gift to the zerg players. but not like a christmas gift, more like one of those gifts you have to give your wife after you've cheated on her.
are you speaking from experience here?!
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On December 11 2010 04:57 red_b wrote:
fungal growth + hold key is a gift to the zerg players. but not like a christmas gift, more like one of those gifts you have to give your wife after you've cheated on her. What is this I don't even...
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On December 11 2010 08:53 Barook wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 08:40 acidfreak wrote:On December 11 2010 08:33 Barook wrote:
Protoss buffs to air and scouting are fine and dandy, but when are they going to fix the Protoss early game against Terran? You should + Show Spoiler +Watch the jinro vs mc match to see when Knowing the timings of your training partner inside out while being the superior player is not how you fix the match-up.
Don't have the VODs so I can't rewatch but I remember the Xelnaga cavern game the most, and have some questions. Was there any important timing from Jinro's part that could have helped? MC just made 6 sentries wait for them to have enough energy while making some stalkers and moved out. Those are all MC's timing. The only important timing at that period for Terran was the stim, and with no room to micro even stim wouldn't help that much. Was there some thing else that I missed? I keep hearing about Jinro's timing being exploited but nobody said exactly what that timing was. Thanks.
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Canada5565 Posts
On December 11 2010 05:42 LittleeD wrote:
So they're keeping the weird stalement countdown?
Bleh
Hm, I forgot about that until I read your post. That definitely could have been tweaked. As Idra said, adding 'no damage dealt to units' would vastly improve it.
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On December 11 2010 08:44 Existor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 08:43 Esp1noza wrote:
They should make fungal to slowdown units like queens ability in bw. Then increase radius by 50% or double
What about keeping the ability the same for ground units (complete immobilization) and then changing its effect on air units to a slowdown.
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On December 11 2010 08:26 SpikeNeedle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 08:16 Rickilicious wrote:On December 11 2010 06:37 kcdc wrote:
I'm hoping they'll eventually let P beat mutas with designated air-to-air units. Spending the whole game pumping phoenixes to defend yourself from muta harass and then to lose them all and the game in half a second to FG is crap. Just give P corsairs and make them immune to FG. Thank god you're not balancing the game. Quit complaining imo. You got buffed, and just because they removed a nerf from zerg doesn't mean protoss got nerfed lol. Note: You do realize phoenix outrange mutas and can shoot on the run, so in an ideal situation, they should never even be touched.. Surely you've seen that silly attack they have. Are you dumb? The entire point of his post was that after pumping out all those phoenixes, FUNGAL GROWTH, which stops MOVEMENT, will get all his phoenixes killed in half a second. To FUNGAL GROWTH. Protoss as a race is definitely messed up right now in my opinion, probably the weakest of the three.
Learn to spread your phoenix out or scout better, Foxer had to with Marines, Zerg has to with ling vs banelings and muta vs fungal growth, why would P not at least have to with phoenix?
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Well, phoenix are basically melee units, you can spread them out, but that means you can't snipe low health muta so well. I don't think that is a problem, but it is why people are less than willing to do it. If the Zerg has so much map control that he is comfortable walking that slow-ass infestor off creep all the way over to your base so that he can fungal your phoenix in the 5 minute window where you actually need phoenix to be safe from muta.. well.. you got a problem, but that problem ain't fungal growth.
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Haha, I saw 2.0 and thought that signified a major software change. Like, oh I don't know, Lurkers and Scourge or something.
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On December 11 2010 04:55 Frack wrote:
• Using ALT-F4 during the opening cinematic will no longer crash the game.
Whew, good thing they got that taken care of.
In my opinion the patch is going in the right direction. Fungal is a tricky topic. I really think it might be fair to just have fungal slow air units instead of freeze them. But I think it has to have some kind of effect.
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fungal on air is fine, but why the f*** are flux vanes now completely gone, thats bs
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On December 11 2010 20:03 Lucius2 wrote:
fungal on air is fine, but why the f*** are flux vanes now completely gone, thats bs
I'm guessing it created an unintended role for the VRs as a more harass-oriented unit that you couldn't really chase down, even with the proper counters.
The two VR changes shifted it more towards an 'anti-biggie' role which has been intended since that 2007 video.
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On December 14 2010 02:00 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 20:03 Lucius2 wrote:
fungal on air is fine, but why the f*** are flux vanes now completely gone, thats bs I'm guessing it created an unintended role for the VRs as a more harass-oriented unit that you couldn't really chase down, even with the proper counters. The two VR changes shifted it more towards an 'anti-biggie' role which has been intended since that 2007 video.
I honestly think it was because of team games, but since I hardly play any of them, I might just be completely wrong. It's just a thought because I always hear people who play team games complaining about void rays when they're imo completely fine in 1v1's.
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On December 14 2010 02:15 Refreshe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 02:00 fdsdfg wrote:On December 11 2010 20:03 Lucius2 wrote:
fungal on air is fine, but why the f*** are flux vanes now completely gone, thats bs I'm guessing it created an unintended role for the VRs as a more harass-oriented unit that you couldn't really chase down, even with the proper counters. The two VR changes shifted it more towards an 'anti-biggie' role which has been intended since that 2007 video. I honestly think it was because of team games, but since I hardly play any of them, I might just be completely wrong. It's just a thought because I always hear people who play team games complaining about void rays when they're imo completely fine in 1v1's.
Come on, lets not blame Team games for every change we don't like. Everybody was saying that the last Void Ray Nerf was due to team games and then we were told because it was done because a Pro contacted the Balance team with tons of replays and stuff.
Only reported change done for Team games sake is the Supply before Barracks change
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On December 14 2010 02:18 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 02:15 Refreshe wrote:On December 14 2010 02:00 fdsdfg wrote:On December 11 2010 20:03 Lucius2 wrote:
fungal on air is fine, but why the f*** are flux vanes now completely gone, thats bs I'm guessing it created an unintended role for the VRs as a more harass-oriented unit that you couldn't really chase down, even with the proper counters. The two VR changes shifted it more towards an 'anti-biggie' role which has been intended since that 2007 video. I honestly think it was because of team games, but since I hardly play any of them, I might just be completely wrong. It's just a thought because I always hear people who play team games complaining about void rays when they're imo completely fine in 1v1's. Come on, lets not blame Team games for every change we don't like. Everybody was saying that the last Void Ray Nerf was due to team games and then we were told because it was done because a Pro contacted the Balance team with tons of replays and stuff. Only reported change done for Team games sake is the Supply before Barracks change
I remember CheckPrime,if it was him, QQing a lot, but to balance off one pro is pretty huge. I hope there was a lot of evidence for blizzard to do something like that. The thing is, they didn't even tell us what made it so OP after they changed it.
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On December 14 2010 02:18 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 02:15 Refreshe wrote:On December 14 2010 02:00 fdsdfg wrote:On December 11 2010 20:03 Lucius2 wrote:
fungal on air is fine, but why the f*** are flux vanes now completely gone, thats bs I'm guessing it created an unintended role for the VRs as a more harass-oriented unit that you couldn't really chase down, even with the proper counters. The two VR changes shifted it more towards an 'anti-biggie' role which has been intended since that 2007 video. I honestly think it was because of team games, but since I hardly play any of them, I might just be completely wrong. It's just a thought because I always hear people who play team games complaining about void rays when they're imo completely fine in 1v1's. Come on, lets not blame Team games for every change we don't like. Everybody was saying that the last Void Ray Nerf was due to team games and then we were told because it was done because a Pro contacted the Balance team with tons of replays and stuff. Only reported change done for Team games sake is the Supply before Barracks change
whitch was so huge for 1v1 that it eventualy lead to the 2 rax allin that all the zergs hate atm so making balance changes based on team games = not good
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On December 11 2010 05:09 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 04:57 red_b wrote:
well I dont think anyone thought the bunker thing was going to be permanent. They wanted to make from 35 to 30 sec, but now reverted to 35 so bunker is still the same.
the original PTR notes said along the lines of 'for PTR only'... so no, they didn't plan on changing it to 30 sec permanently.
they probably wanted to test the bunker some more to see if it was imbalanced, but as they suspected it's only terribad whiners who complain about perfectly balanced bunker.
btw chronoboost phoenix take less time to make than marines = tee hee.
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I thought void rays were really powerful in team games because it was possible hit critical mass and melt everything. Then speed along with it meant that you couldn't catch them. But then they nerfed the damage at some point so I don't know if that is even true anymore.
Maybe they are hoping with void ray being less viable late game, carriers will be more in vogue.
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I'm pretty sure if void rays were a problem in team games, it was happening in the bronze league. lol.
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i think it was because voidrays are awesome enough without a speed upgrade...
it's like banshee's having a speed upgrade.
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On December 11 2010 06:41 Jarmam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:53 junemermaid wrote:On December 11 2010 05:30 Ummbeefy wrote:
No FG change is cool but now toss builds a structure simply for upgrades or...carriers?
Wow, if I want +2 air upgrades I need a building that only allows me to create carriers and improve the carrier effectiveness?
This feels very limited. Toss tech patterns already seem confining. This solidifies the you're one tech, stay there mentality. You mean like the fusion core? Yeah. It's fine. It also unlocks the mothership. The structure that costs 150/150 and isnt an extension of a rugged tech path like the Protoss 3-way tech path - and which does *not* unlock the +2 air upgrades, cuz they're available from the start? But yay for Mothership, that changes everything.
I mainly played protoss back in BW. I tell you what, back in those days, you had to build an observatory to get observers. Protoss was fine back then and it's fine now with splintered tech, that's just the race.
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On December 14 2010 02:22 cilinder007 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 02:18 windsupernova wrote:On December 14 2010 02:15 Refreshe wrote:On December 14 2010 02:00 fdsdfg wrote:On December 11 2010 20:03 Lucius2 wrote:
fungal on air is fine, but why the f*** are flux vanes now completely gone, thats bs I'm guessing it created an unintended role for the VRs as a more harass-oriented unit that you couldn't really chase down, even with the proper counters. The two VR changes shifted it more towards an 'anti-biggie' role which has been intended since that 2007 video. I honestly think it was because of team games, but since I hardly play any of them, I might just be completely wrong. It's just a thought because I always hear people who play team games complaining about void rays when they're imo completely fine in 1v1's. Come on, lets not blame Team games for every change we don't like. Everybody was saying that the last Void Ray Nerf was due to team games and then we were told because it was done because a Pro contacted the Balance team with tons of replays and stuff. Only reported change done for Team games sake is the Supply before Barracks change whitch was so huge for 1v1 that it eventualy lead to the 2 rax allin that all the zergs hate atm so making balance changes based on team games = not good
The 2 Rax build was always around. It just wasn't the most optimal build. Terran still have a rax all-in build that's incredibly strong vs. most Zerg early game builds.
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On December 14 2010 02:43 hoovehand wrote:
i think it was because voidrays are awesome enough without a speed upgrade...
it's like banshee's having a speed upgrade.
Rofl yeah. Or like banshees having a way to turn invisible. O.o
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On December 11 2010 06:21 Lucius2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:53 junemermaid wrote:On December 11 2010 05:30 Ummbeefy wrote:
No FG change is cool but now toss builds a structure simply for upgrades or...carriers?
Wow, if I want +2 air upgrades I need a building that only allows me to create carriers and improve the carrier effectiveness?
This feels very limited. Toss tech patterns already seem confining. This solidifies the you're one tech, stay there mentality. You mean like the fusion core? Yeah. It's fine. It also unlocks the mothership. too bad armory unlocks already everything....and fleet beacon is more expensive...
For late game air tech AND +2 upgrades, each respective race requires:
Pylon > Gateway > Cybercore > Stargate > Fleet Beacon
850 Minerals
450 Gas
Pool > Lair > Spire > Infestation Pit > Hive > Greater Spire
900 Minerals + 150 for 3 Drones
700 Gas
Depot > Barracks > Factory > Armory > Starport > Fusion Core
850 Minerals
450 Gas
In short, stop it.
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On December 14 2010 02:22 Refreshe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 02:18 windsupernova wrote:On December 14 2010 02:15 Refreshe wrote:On December 14 2010 02:00 fdsdfg wrote:On December 11 2010 20:03 Lucius2 wrote:
fungal on air is fine, but why the f*** are flux vanes now completely gone, thats bs I'm guessing it created an unintended role for the VRs as a more harass-oriented unit that you couldn't really chase down, even with the proper counters. The two VR changes shifted it more towards an 'anti-biggie' role which has been intended since that 2007 video. I honestly think it was because of team games, but since I hardly play any of them, I might just be completely wrong. It's just a thought because I always hear people who play team games complaining about void rays when they're imo completely fine in 1v1's. Come on, lets not blame Team games for every change we don't like. Everybody was saying that the last Void Ray Nerf was due to team games and then we were told because it was done because a Pro contacted the Balance team with tons of replays and stuff. Only reported change done for Team games sake is the Supply before Barracks change I remember CheckPrime,if it was him, QQing a lot, but to balance off one pro is pretty huge. I hope there was a lot of evidence for blizzard to do something like that. The thing is, they didn't even tell us what made it so OP after they changed it.
Yea they said a professional player who didnt play protoss sent David Kim a replay of a void ray rush that couldnt be beaten which made them change it. Later at Blizzcon someone asked David who it was and he said CheckPrime. So this time it wasnt 2v2 that got it changed.
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fungal growth + hold key is a gift to the zerg players. but not like a christmas gift, more like one of those gifts you have to give your wife after you've cheated on her.
Brilliantly put, my man... haha.
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On December 14 2010 02:57 Invol2ver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:21 Lucius2 wrote:On December 11 2010 05:53 junemermaid wrote:On December 11 2010 05:30 Ummbeefy wrote:
No FG change is cool but now toss builds a structure simply for upgrades or...carriers?
Wow, if I want +2 air upgrades I need a building that only allows me to create carriers and improve the carrier effectiveness?
This feels very limited. Toss tech patterns already seem confining. This solidifies the you're one tech, stay there mentality. You mean like the fusion core? Yeah. It's fine. It also unlocks the mothership. too bad armory unlocks already everything....and fleet beacon is more expensive... For late game air tech AND +2 upgrades, each respective race requires: Pylon > Gateway > Cybercore > Stargate > Fleet Beacon 850 Minerals 450 Gas Pool > Lair > Spire > Infestation Pit > Hive > Greater Spire 900 Minerals + 150 for 3 Drones 700 Gas Depot > Barracks > Factory > Armory > Starport > Fusion Core 850 Minerals 450 Gas In short, stop it. He didnt say he was comparing late air tech he said in order to get +2 air upgrades you have to build a fleet beacon. You dont have to build a fusion core to get +2 air as terran and you dont have to build a greater spire as zerg to get +2 air either though you do need a hive and it is more comparable.
Conversely +1 air can be got extremely quickly with just a cyber core though.
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Problem is, earlier I wanted to get fleet beacon eventually even if I stick with rays...because of the flux vanes. Now with flux vanes removed it's just a bit odd that you need the beacon if you want +2 rays, I doubt anybody will ever build the beacon just to unlock this tech-possibility.
Meaning, the way it was originally designed made much sense, if you want strong(er) air the game was designed in a way that makes you "want" the beacon anyways - carriers are unlocked by it and rays get their awsome speed upgrade. Now it's just strange....though definitely not gamebreaking or anything.
EDIT: also the fusion core originally unlocked the cloak for banshees, something very balanced that I still not understand how Blizz can take this away and make a cloaked flying unit easier available than a cloaked ground unit
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On December 14 2010 04:30 sleepingdog wrote:
Problem is, earlier I wanted to get fleet beacon eventually even if I stick with rays...because of the flux vanes. Now with flux vanes removed it's just a bit odd that you need the beacon if you want +2 rays, I doubt anybody will ever build the beacon just to unlock this tech-possibility.
Meaning, the way it was originally designed made much sense, if you want strong(er) air the game was designed in a way that makes you "want" the beacon anyways - carriers are unlocked by it and rays get their awsome speed upgrade. Now it's just strange....though definitely not gamebreaking or anything.
terran needs an armory if he wants +2 marines, that makes more sense ?
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On December 14 2010 04:32 cilinder007 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 04:30 sleepingdog wrote:
Problem is, earlier I wanted to get fleet beacon eventually even if I stick with rays...because of the flux vanes. Now with flux vanes removed it's just a bit odd that you need the beacon if you want +2 rays, I doubt anybody will ever build the beacon just to unlock this tech-possibility.
Meaning, the way it was originally designed made much sense, if you want strong(er) air the game was designed in a way that makes you "want" the beacon anyways - carriers are unlocked by it and rays get their awsome speed upgrade. Now it's just strange....though definitely not gamebreaking or anything. terran needs an armory if he wants +2 marines, that makes more sense ?
Toss needs a twilight council if he wants +2 "anything-but-air" - so yes, it does makes sense, one additional building that you "maybe" don't want (vs terran yes, vs zerg...not necessarily). Toss has got two, the TC for forge +2 and the beacon for air +2.
Again, previously this made sense, now it must look like somewhat silly design for somebody who doesn't know the whole patch-history.
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Does anyone else feel the skill level on the PTR is higher than the regular server? Someone actually mentioned this in game during one of my placement matches and after playing about 20 games, I have to agree. Maybe it's because I'm only in silver on the regular server, but it seems like I can only beat people who are like 2-11 and in bronze, whereas I'm beating upper gold players on the regular server.
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It used to be stronger on the PTR, but I think all the good players have got out of bronze/silver now.
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On December 14 2010 05:16 roflcopter420 wrote:
wtf is ptr?
public test realm.
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I normally don't like to accuse people of this kind of thing, but I think the "Protoss UP" narrative is just a convenient excuse for Protoss players(I am one) to try to be lazy. You can talk all you want about Tester and Sangho and Ace and whoever else not qualifying, but unless you know the content of those games, you can't prove anything. I want hard content to prove that my race is UP, not just recitation of racial asymmetries and minor weaknesses, such as all the races have.
There is currently no strategy in this game that can't be beaten by being the better player.
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"Sound effects will no longer pop or cut off if buildings are rapidly selected."
What does this mean? I though in the first PTR patch they made the sounds be like BW, cut each other off now they changed it back?? Noooo
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On December 14 2010 04:47 LambtrOn wrote:
Does anyone else feel the skill level on the PTR is higher than the regular server? Someone actually mentioned this in game during one of my placement matches and after playing about 20 games, I have to agree. Maybe it's because I'm only in silver on the regular server, but it seems like I can only beat people who are like 2-11 and in bronze, whereas I'm beating upper gold players on the regular server.
Probably because Joe Blow average noob doesn't know it even exists. Only people who care are good players.
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On December 14 2010 06:20 k20 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 04:47 LambtrOn wrote:
Does anyone else feel the skill level on the PTR is higher than the regular server? Someone actually mentioned this in game during one of my placement matches and after playing about 20 games, I have to agree. Maybe it's because I'm only in silver on the regular server, but it seems like I can only beat people who are like 2-11 and in bronze, whereas I'm beating upper gold players on the regular server. Probably because Joe Blow average noob doesn't know it even exists. Only people who care are good players.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. Kinda nice to have a place to practice against better than average players
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what did it mean by "holding down a key"?
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On December 14 2010 06:39 Sodaplay111 wrote:
what did it mean by "holding down a key"?
Press z while selecting larvae. Don't press it multiple times, just hold, and then you ahve a shitton of zerglings. Aka not having to hit zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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On December 11 2010 05:31 teacash wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2010 05:27 DaBears57 wrote:
I feel like the protoss players aren't complaining enough. I mean they removed speed void rays and the ability to wall off with two pylons. All of this happened without much QQ, almost the entire thread of the original PTR thread was zerg users complaining. Top protoss players are also too modest when it comes to balance. Top protoss players like incontrol and nony are the last ones to cry imba,whereas for zerg they have the very vocal idra and artosis.
After all is said and done, they revert zerg changes after only a couple of days and while they kept the phoenix buff, they still removed two huge aspects of protoss (pylon wall and speed rays). ** throws up
why would you encourage whining?
i think they are fine changes and i am a toss player. so it takes 3 pylons to block instead of 2. this way it is still possible but wont happen ever game. and idk much about the top lever for speed void rays, but i never say them all that much except in that guinea pig game.
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Im so happy that the fungal is back it wuld limit the use of infestor in zvz to almost non existant
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On December 14 2010 06:46 Froadac wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 06:39 Sodaplay111 wrote:
what did it mean by "holding down a key"? Press z while selecting larvae. Don't press it multiple times, just hold, and then you ahve a shitton of zerglings. Aka not having to hit zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
is that just in PTR???
or is that happening in real sc2??
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On December 14 2010 02:43 ccou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 06:41 Jarmam wrote:On December 11 2010 05:53 junemermaid wrote:On December 11 2010 05:30 Ummbeefy wrote:
No FG change is cool but now toss builds a structure simply for upgrades or...carriers?
Wow, if I want +2 air upgrades I need a building that only allows me to create carriers and improve the carrier effectiveness?
This feels very limited. Toss tech patterns already seem confining. This solidifies the you're one tech, stay there mentality. You mean like the fusion core? Yeah. It's fine. It also unlocks the mothership. The structure that costs 150/150 and isnt an extension of a rugged tech path like the Protoss 3-way tech path - and which does *not* unlock the +2 air upgrades, cuz they're available from the start? But yay for Mothership, that changes everything. I mainly played protoss back in BW. I tell you what, back in those days, you had to build an observatory to get observers. Protoss was fine back then and it's fine now with splintered tech, that's just the race.
But SC2 is a game of hard counters. BW is not. Therefor, adding too many different tech routes makes it so that you have to guess what your opponent is going for and just go for the coinflip.
On top of that, SC2 lacks the defender's advantage that BW has.
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EPT
