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On December 04 2010 21:23 Darksoldierr wrote:
Atleast void ray became usefull against mass roach and marauder, yay
What?
-- Void Ray
Now deals 20% more damage to massive targets.
Flux Vanes speed upgrade removed.
This changes nothing with respect to roaches and marauders, or any of the backups for these units in a typical composition. Looks purely to me likey they're trying to make them viable in PvP to stop collosus wars being the only way beyond the early game. Maybe they could be used against BCs without yamato too but who builds those.
Can anyone on the US server show what the damage info box says for the voidray now? This whole "20%" thing doesn't sound much like a typical patch note. I'd expect "+x damage vs massive" instead..
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On December 04 2010 21:33 DImported wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 21:28 SedativeDev wrote:
OMG Everytime some changes are made to zergs race all the zerg players are whining like hardcore. This is unbelievable. I think that this patch is pretty good over all. These aren't just slight changes. These are very big. Changing the way zerg produce units is going to take away precious time, especially for a race that relies on creating a huge amount of units instantly. The infestor change is overkill. No fungal medivacs, phoenix and mutas is a huge disadvantage for zerg.
Nah, these changes aren't as bad as you think. Just play it though - if they are so bad, Blizzard won't release it to the live game.
I can't understand the QQ when Blizzard is putting it on their test server to evaluate the balance changes, before deploying it live. If the balance changes are so bad, they will never make it live.
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On December 04 2010 21:10 drlame wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 20:57 Gegenschein wrote:
Like most people, I think the fungal growth nerf is overkill. And I play Terran.
(On the other hand, I must admit it doesn't make much sense that a fungus could immobilize a flying unit mid-air... either a flying unit can still move, or it crashes.)
Wouldn't it be a good compromise if fungal growth acted as an Ensnare spell against air?
I.e.: doesn't prevent air units from moving, but decreases their speed by 50% or something like that.
I much less care for the "poison" effect of the spell. It could remain the same or be halved. Still, I don't think it should be totally removed. You should never ever compare SC to reality, especially not when talking about balance.
I wouldn't say reality, but I do enjoy when common sense is respected within the established boundaries of the game's conventions. Ultralisks shouldn't be stunned by anything, harvesters should go through force fields, stalkers shouldn't be able to blink while under fungal growth, etc.
You are right in saying that between design and balance, balance should win in the end. But the best, by far, is to have both.
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Lol, this "zergs are going to have to go mutas to stop drops now" is the funniest complaint I've heard since the beginning of the game. All zergs go mutas every single game anyway in ZvT. Absolutely nothing has changed.
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The phoenix buff doesn't make any sense. It's not like people aren't going phoenix already in PvZ.
I have a hard time beliving the fungal nerf actually is going to proceed, not for the balance only, but the gameplay is losing so much dynamic with that change.
And the hold production key, well It's going to take some time to adjust, but some kind of nerf to zerg lategame was needed.
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On December 04 2010 21:37 iEchoic wrote:
Lol, this "zergs are going to have to go mutas to stop drops now" is the funniest complaint I've heard since the beginning of the game. All zergs go mutas every single game anyway. Absolutely nothing has changed.
Exactly. It's probably not going to affect TvsZ late game much - even after the nerf, I expect TvsZ will still heavily favor Z.
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On December 04 2010 21:33 Sewi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 21:29 DiZasteR wrote:On December 04 2010 21:16 lolaloc wrote:On December 04 2010 21:13 DiZasteR wrote:On December 04 2010 21:06 Nerchio wrote:
Larva change is horrible. It was pretty simple when you had all ur hatcheries on 1 hotkey and you could just use 1 hotkey to make ur army again. I can't imagine replenishing your army while you have to micro and macro, clicking 30 times the same button.
This. If you need to remax after a battle you will spend like 10-20 seconds bashing thesame button. Time in which you can't do anything else. And that just does not make sense to me. It does not cost the Terran and Protoss that much time because they will never be making 30-50 units at once. Try remaxing while you're losing units in a battle. It's better than simply making units after the battle. How will it be possible hitting thesame button 30-50 times DURING a battle while you are trying to microand actually win it. I dont see why this is a problem´. I play SC2 for 4 month now and I never used "holding down a button". I just dont think it is that usefull. I want to know exactly how many units of which type I make. Not just hold down a button until I get a msg like "more supply needed" or "not enough minerals" or "no more larva" etc. I really cannot imagine any good player using this at all
It's actually very easy to do and a lot faster. You are very quick in finding out how long you have to hold the key down to make 5 rines, 10 rines etc and when you are on more bases, it hardly matters if you do queue up a 1 unit in few buildings(from t perspective).
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On December 04 2010 21:34 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 21:30 HuHEN wrote:On December 04 2010 21:23 fleeze wrote:On December 04 2010 21:17 ghostnuke1234 wrote:On December 04 2010 11:04 KneeDeeP wrote:
lol how is zerg supposed to stop air? how about like the other 2 races and counter it with your own air or ground units that shoot up maybe? ^^^ QFT! It amazes me how some Z players complain that they don't have to make Corruptors or Hydras to counter mass air. Not to mention they have a default unit in the Queen that is anti-air. They simply don't realize that they have been spoiled for all this time OP units, including the infestor. Blizzard simply realized how OP Z units are and made the correct nerf. Having said that, lategame TvsZ will still heavily favor Z after the fungal growth nerf - Blizzard needs to further nerf late game Z, or buff late game T. this is just wrong. there is no viable zerg air counter now against z and p. zvz will be mass muta because once the mutas reach critical mass they will beat hydras without fungal growth. also you will have map control. the only counter to mutas being corrupters now. zvp will become mass phoenix. the protoss has no reason not to phoenix and force hydras or corrupters and then build either colossi (vs hydra) or just pure ground (vs corruptor). zvt it's not that game breaking. though you will need mutas now when facing dropship play. and the mass marine raven play some people in here have brought up. GUess youre just going to have to deal with phoenix the way we had to deal with mutas, with units, not 1 spell. Its not like phoenix are that strong, the only reason toss players were getting them was to have some viable way to deal with mutas, now that huge committment wont be completely thrown in your face by one spell. That's not true. Vs. mutas you can go phoenixes and you rape them. What should zerg do now when you mass phoenix? Corruptors? Even if I can make enough of them, they are useless after I killed phoenixes, while phoenixes are far from useless when there are no mutas on the field.
well it can be done.
but i wouldn't want every zvp to play out like ROOTKiWiKaKi vs EGStrifeCro
corruptor/broodlord being the only option
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I like that infestor change for ZvZ. Back to BW metagame (mass muta! <3)
But I really dislike it for ZvT and ZvP ~~
And I dont know what I should think about this
Fixed an issue where Larva could produce units by holding down hotkeys.
On the one hand it requires fasters fingers to produce units (you need better mechanics) but it will be so fucking stressful in ZvP/ZvT where you waste so many seconds hitting the "Z" key just to produce some zerglings -_-
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Wow, my friend just taught me how to fungal mutas and spawn infested terran too. I think it's pretty cool that Blizzard is shaking things up so much though.
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On December 04 2010 21:38 ghostnuke1234 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 21:37 iEchoic wrote:
Lol, this "zergs are going to have to go mutas to stop drops now" is the funniest complaint I've heard since the beginning of the game. All zergs go mutas every single game anyway. Absolutely nothing has changed. Exactly. It's probably not going to affect TvsZ late game much - even after the nerf, I expect TvsZ will still heavily favor Z.
if you dont see how taking out one of 2 options vs drops in zvt affects the matchup then you should stop commenting about the game.
and tvz heavily z favored? based on what? there was a short time after the last patch where the Ts were confused.they adapted as you can see in evry single tournament/stats out there.
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On December 04 2010 21:33 DImported wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 21:28 SedativeDev wrote:
OMG Everytime some changes are made to zergs race all the zerg players are whining like hardcore. This is unbelievable. I think that this patch is pretty good over all. These aren't just slight changes. These are very big. Changing the way zerg produce units is going to take away precious time, especially for a race that relies on creating a huge amount of units instantly.
And thats why the late zerg game is imba!
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The new fungal growth will just destroy ZvZ. ZvZ will become even more stupid than in scbw. Roaches or banelings into mass mutalisks every game without scourges. The old fungal growth was the only factor, which shut that strategy down. Phoenix harassment also became dangerous to the Protoss, once infestors were out. Now there will be no way to punish a phoenix opening.
On December 04 2010 21:36 ghostnuke1234 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 21:33 DImported wrote:On December 04 2010 21:28 SedativeDev wrote:
OMG Everytime some changes are made to zergs race all the zerg players are whining like hardcore. This is unbelievable. I think that this patch is pretty good over all. These aren't just slight changes. These are very big. Changing the way zerg produce units is going to take away precious time, especially for a race that relies on creating a huge amount of units instantly. The infestor change is overkill. No fungal medivacs, phoenix and mutas is a huge disadvantage for zerg. Nah, these changes aren't as bad as you think. Just play it though - if they are so bad, Blizzard won't release it to the live game. I can't understand the QQ when Blizzard is putting it on their test server to evaluate the balance changes, before deploying it live. If the balance changes are so bad, they will never make it live.
Yes, like the ultralisk splash bug, the graviton beam bug, the supply depot requirement, the factory requirement for the reaper speed upgrade and the removal of energy bars. They never made it into the game after weeks of testing!
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I dont understeand how they talked about how problematic Terran late game is and than we get this? Do I miss something? Cheaper Observers will make it easier for Protoss to react and get to later stages of the game while faster Phoenix being so good against Tanks wont help either..
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On December 04 2010 21:45 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 21:38 ghostnuke1234 wrote:On December 04 2010 21:37 iEchoic wrote:
Lol, this "zergs are going to have to go mutas to stop drops now" is the funniest complaint I've heard since the beginning of the game. All zergs go mutas every single game anyway. Absolutely nothing has changed. Exactly. It's probably not going to affect TvsZ late game much - even after the nerf, I expect TvsZ will still heavily favor Z. if you dont see how taking out one of 2 options vs drops in zvt affects the matchup then you should stop commenting about the game. and tvz heavily z favored? based on what? there was a short time after the last patch where the Ts were confused.they adapted as you can see in evry single tournament/stats out there.
I think Z players should stop complaining and just play it out on the test server. LOL, it's not going live yet. If it is so bad, Blizzard will stop it from going live.
Really, the sheer QQ is unwarranted because the balance changes will be tested out first. It's not going live by any means, LOL.
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On December 04 2010 21:38 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 21:33 Sewi wrote:On December 04 2010 21:29 DiZasteR wrote:On December 04 2010 21:16 lolaloc wrote:On December 04 2010 21:13 DiZasteR wrote:On December 04 2010 21:06 Nerchio wrote:
Larva change is horrible. It was pretty simple when you had all ur hatcheries on 1 hotkey and you could just use 1 hotkey to make ur army again. I can't imagine replenishing your army while you have to micro and macro, clicking 30 times the same button.
This. If you need to remax after a battle you will spend like 10-20 seconds bashing thesame button. Time in which you can't do anything else. And that just does not make sense to me. It does not cost the Terran and Protoss that much time because they will never be making 30-50 units at once. Try remaxing while you're losing units in a battle. It's better than simply making units after the battle. How will it be possible hitting thesame button 30-50 times DURING a battle while you are trying to microand actually win it. I dont see why this is a problem´. I play SC2 for 4 month now and I never used "holding down a button". I just dont think it is that usefull. I want to know exactly how many units of which type I make. Not just hold down a button until I get a msg like "more supply needed" or "not enough minerals" or "no more larva" etc. I really cannot imagine any good player using this at all It's actually very easy to do and a lot faster. You are very quick in finding out how long you have to hold the key down to make 5 rines, 10 rines etc and when you are on more bases, it hardly matters if you do queue up a 1 unit in few buildings(from t perspective).
I dont like it anyways. I know it is just personal preferance but when I hold the key down and wait that little moment before the action spam occures, I lose the flow of my clicking etc. I like having to click for an action I want to make. My amp isnt the highest but bercause I am so used to this due to playing BW for so/too long it doesnt look like a problem to me :p
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It seems there is a secret unannounced feature coming with this patch, announced by an italian blue post.
If it exists it's not on the PTR or in the patch notes and it's something they don't need to test.
I suppose it's some christmas shit like santa's hats on zealots xD
http://www.sc2mapster.com/announcements/corruption-orpg/
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Jinro's a monster and he'd destroy damn near any zerg out there because he plays a solid macro game. Which is basically unheard of in terran players and the only reason ZvT ever seems imbalanced.
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On December 04 2010 21:51 Bibendus wrote:It seems there is a secret unannounced feature coming with this patch, announced by an italian blue post. If it exists sure it's not on the PTR or in the patch notes. I suppose it's some christmas shit like santa's hat on zealots :O http://www.sc2mapster.com/announcements/corruption-orpg/
Maybe it's the stalemate detection?
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On December 04 2010 21:53 Ingruz wrote:Maybe it's the stalemate detection?
Maybe :O
The post says that it's a common requested feature on the italian forum, I don't think that stalemate is commonly happening!
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EPT
