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Patch 1.2.0 on PTR - Page 69

Forum Index > SC2 General
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DreamSailor
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada433 Posts
December 04 2010 08:36 GMT
#1361
On December 04 2010 17:33 andrewwiggin wrote:
Show nested quote +

Dunno why nobody uses stargate units outside Korea, but phoenix are ridic broken on scrap station already.


Lol. Missile turrets? =/




Thors also beat Phoenix as hard as they beat Mutalisks.
Where ever you go, there you are.
lol12tree
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada88 Posts
December 04 2010 08:36 GMT
#1362
On December 04 2010 17:28 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2010 15:55 travis wrote:
On December 04 2010 15:40 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
There are a lot of good things in this patch, but there are three huge problems to me....

Fungal Growth

This is to my mind the absolutely biggest change - fungal doesnt see a ton of use as a staple part of current ZvT, but I have always thought the potential was there, and now its just not. This is basically saying "make mutalisks or die to drops", which just isnt right.

In addition, this is going to make broodlords SOOOO much worse - you will never catch defending vikings now unless you have, you guessed it, mass mutas.

Also, ZvZ is back to mutas. Lol.

Bunker build time

Seriously =[? Its nice on the defense, but on the attack, do you really want more allin?

Phoenix

..... The phoenix is ridiculously powerful already, are you fucking kidding me mang. Zerg and Terran users all over the world be crying.


i agree about the rest but if phoenix is so powerful then why do i never see it used in pvt (and not even very much in pvz... more lately though.)

just serious question

Dunno why nobody uses stargate units outside Korea, but phoenix are ridic broken on scrap station already.


yes because banshees and mutas aren't.

in another words a map that favors air units make 1 race's air units over powered but not another race's air units.

very logical.
{ToT}ColmA
Profile Joined November 2007
Japan3260 Posts
December 04 2010 08:36 GMT
#1363
its a testrealm, not every change they did have to make it throu, hoping for the fungal change to get removed :3
The only virgins in kpop left are the fans
Almania
Profile Joined September 2010
145 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-04 08:37:59
December 04 2010 08:37 GMT
#1364
On December 04 2010 17:32 Pinski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2010 17:23 theherder2 wrote:
On December 04 2010 17:18 Almania wrote:
On December 04 2010 17:16 moose162 wrote:
The Phoenix still takes longer to build than a Muta..Just food for thought.


Only if you aim to keep your nexus energy high.

However if you use it like you should, 17.5s works out to be quite a bit less than 33s.


well if I'm using it as i'm should, (meaning i need some saved up) i can bust out 2 phoenixes in 35 seconds. in 33 seconds you can hatch 8 mutas at once.


Actually you only get 2 Phoenix from 1 Stargate with full Chronoboost out in 46.66 seconds.

Chronoboost improves efficiency by 50%, it doesn't make things work 100% faster. So it only cuts times down by a third, not a half.


I stand corrected. So nixes are now 23s, still faster than mutas. And yes Zerg can still out mutas your single stargate via a hatch, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise - I was just correcting the poster that I replied to.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-04 08:41:09
December 04 2010 08:37 GMT
#1365
On December 04 2010 17:32 lol12tree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2010 15:40 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
There are a lot of good things in this patch, but there are three huge problems to me....

Fungal Growth

This is to my mind the absolutely biggest change - fungal doesnt see a ton of use as a staple part of current ZvT, but I have always thought the potential was there, and now its just not. This is basically saying "make mutalisks or die to drops", which just isnt right.

In addition, this is going to make broodlords SOOOO much worse - you will never catch defending vikings now unless you have, you guessed it, mass mutas.

Also, ZvZ is back to mutas. Lol.

Bunker build time

Seriously =[? Its nice on the defense, but on the attack, do you really want more allin?

Phoenix

..... The phoenix is ridiculously powerful already, are you fucking kidding me mang. Zerg and Terran users all over the world be crying.

pheonix is ridic over powered?
i guess that explains why inControl Kiwikaki Chief HuK InCa Sangho sSKS didn't make it into the GSL because they didn't use phoenixs right? Obviously you understand how protosses work better than those players.

Show nested quote +
On December 04 2010 17:36 lol12tree wrote:
On December 04 2010 17:28 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On December 04 2010 15:55 travis wrote:
On December 04 2010 15:40 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
There are a lot of good things in this patch, but there are three huge problems to me....

Fungal Growth

This is to my mind the absolutely biggest change - fungal doesnt see a ton of use as a staple part of current ZvT, but I have always thought the potential was there, and now its just not. This is basically saying "make mutalisks or die to drops", which just isnt right.

In addition, this is going to make broodlords SOOOO much worse - you will never catch defending vikings now unless you have, you guessed it, mass mutas.

Also, ZvZ is back to mutas. Lol.

Bunker build time

Seriously =[? Its nice on the defense, but on the attack, do you really want more allin?

Phoenix

..... The phoenix is ridiculously powerful already, are you fucking kidding me mang. Zerg and Terran users all over the world be crying.


i agree about the rest but if phoenix is so powerful then why do i never see it used in pvt (and not even very much in pvz... more lately though.)

just serious question

Dunno why nobody uses stargate units outside Korea, but phoenix are ridic broken on scrap station already.


yes because banshees and mutas aren't.

in another words a map that favors air units make 1 race's air units over powered but not another race's air units.

very logical.

Oh and when was the last time we had a pro tournament level match where we saw phoenix absolutely rape the crap out of the enemy?

hm... back in the HDH when Nony first popularized it?
Yeah.. phoenix OP my ass. Imo phoenixs were fine the way they were (as a 2k toss), this new buff is interesting but it may be important in the highest levels of play.

Considering phoenixes make banshees useless on scrap station....

I said ridiculously POWERFUL not OVERPOWERED. There are plenty of units that are ridiculously powerful but not overpowered already.

And your argument about them not making it into the GSL is a complete strawman, it has nothing to do with fucking phoenixes wtf.

Fact: phoenix builds are ridiculously strong on scrap station and certain other maps vs terran.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Lennon
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2275 Posts
December 04 2010 08:38 GMT
#1366
On December 04 2010 15:23 NibbloniaN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2010 15:21 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
On December 04 2010 15:17 Tump wrote:
Undocumented? New 1v1 map: Plunder Isle
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Omg, *THROWS UP*

Wtf is that shit. Looks worse than jungle basin


Map makers just gave up trying to be creative and copied a map they had in wc3
[image loading]


Yet another shit map.
Don't they get it yet? A map which forces Zerg to expand towards the enemy isn't balanced. It's taking them too long to realise this. Until then, they'll continue to make imbalanced maps with too few expansions points.
lurked
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada918 Posts
December 04 2010 08:38 GMT
#1367
Really nice, I'm actually surprised that they applied many of those changes. It's still not 100% official as it's only on the PTR, but let's see how it'll turn out.
Magic is "just" magic until I get my hands on the source code.
Horuku
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States405 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-04 08:40:30
December 04 2010 08:39 GMT
#1368
Can anyone confirm the having to push multiple times to spawn from larvae now?

That's the only thing I care about. I can adapt to the fungal growth change, but seriously gonna put me behind a bit on builds having to mash buttons multiple times. Kinda changes play style quiet a bit too since now I'll have to mash buttons more rather than holding it down and being done with it. Dumb change imo. Does this mean that other races have to push their buttons multiple times for all their stuff too? So mash a and d a ton for every single marine and maurader? I understand wanting to get some of the pro-micro back from BW days, but some of this stuff is just modernization (like rallying workers). Gotta be kidding me...
d<^^>b
lfs
Profile Joined September 2010
United States54 Posts
December 04 2010 08:40 GMT
#1369
On December 04 2010 16:52 KnightOfNi wrote:
To all you zergs out there: Q_Q about your macro. Q fucking Q.

All the other races have to spam their button to get the units they want (I have to go aaaaaaaaaaadd to make my marines off 2 bases, way more late game, protoss has to individually warp in units), so why the hell should zerg have ezmode for macro late game (which is already really easy because you have exactly 1 unit producing structure)? Make all your units individually pl0x, just like everyone else.


Uhmmmm if you have 5 barracks with 2 reactor and 3 tech lab and you want to make 5 marauder and 20 marines you just have to do D-D-D-D-D and then hold down A. This works for every toss structure as well besides warp gates. Holding down the hotkey is something that is spread across every race but now Zerg has to mash E 40 times to make 40 banelings, sounds pretty retarded to me.

Another thing is Terran, for example, can queue units so if they are spamming marines they don't have to do it as fast as possible, as long as they tap A enough times for one set of marines before the first set finished and you have lost 0 production time, which is not true for Zerg.
Mojeca
Profile Joined September 2010
United States46 Posts
December 04 2010 08:40 GMT
#1370
I'm quite surprised at the lack of discussion about the bottom of the ramp. No longer can 2 pylons block it off, this is a pretty big change. I'm all in favor of it, but still. Where is nation of QQ I have come to expect from this site?
Artisan
Profile Joined February 2010
United States336 Posts
December 04 2010 08:41 GMT
#1371
On December 04 2010 17:39 Horuku wrote:
Can anyone confirm the having to push multiple times to spawn from larvae now?

That's the only thing I care about. I can adapt to the fungal growth change, but seriously gonna put me behind a bit on builds having to mash buttons multiple times. Kinda changes play style quiet a bit too since now I'll have to mash buttons more rather than holding it down and being done with it. Dumb change imo. Does this mean that other races have to push their buttons multiple times for all their stuff too? So mash a and d a ton for every single marine and maurader? I understand wanting to get some of the pro-micro back from BW days, but some of this stuff is just modernization (like rallying workers). Gotta be kidding me...


sadly its true =( carpal tunnel 1 players 0
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
December 04 2010 08:42 GMT
#1372
On December 04 2010 17:40 Mojeca wrote:
I'm quite surprised at the lack of discussion about the bottom of the ramp. No longer can 2 pylons block it off, this is a pretty big change. I'm all in favor of it, but still. Where is nation of QQ I have come to expect from this site?


I think most people saw it as pretty cheesy and likely to be changed in some way anyway. I thought the roach range was meant to address it also, but clearly not.
XothermeK
Profile Joined May 2010
United Arab Emirates245 Posts
December 04 2010 08:42 GMT
#1373
As dear Artosis would say "IF THEY RELEASE THIS PATCH, ITS GONNA BE HUGGGGEEEEEE!!!!"
Lennon
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2275 Posts
December 04 2010 08:42 GMT
#1374
On December 04 2010 17:39 Horuku wrote:
Can anyone confirm the having to push multiple times to spawn from larvae now?

That's the only thing I care about. I can adapt to the fungal growth change, but seriously gonna put me behind a bit on builds having to mash buttons multiple times. Kinda changes play style quiet a bit too since now I'll have to mash buttons more rather than holding it down and being done with it. Dumb change imo. Does this mean that other races have to push their buttons multiple times for all their stuff too? So mash a and d a ton for every single marine and maurader? I understand wanting to get some of the pro-micro back from BW days, but some of this stuff is just modernization (like rallying workers). Gotta be kidding me...


If it's true, we won't see Zerg winning anything for a while. It's too much of a big gameplay change. Imagine trying to spam Zerglings. It'll take too long. They're really screwed up if that change is going through.
sykBelieve
Profile Joined November 2010
22 Posts
December 04 2010 08:43 GMT
#1375
The maps have been there SINCE LAST PATCH, they're just custom game maps.

Another one I remember is Crossfire, Punder Isle and a few others but can't remember..
Doubt they'll go in the actual ladder map pool.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
December 04 2010 08:43 GMT
#1376
there's another change people didnt really notice i think, but it's nice. workers cant mineral walk through enemy units anymore, so you cant scout past units at a choke by right clicking minerals, nor can you escape when workers surround your scout. it's not huge but something to remember come next patch
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Gooey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States944 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-04 08:46:27
December 04 2010 08:44 GMT
#1377
On December 04 2010 17:39 Horuku wrote:
Can anyone confirm the having to push multiple times to spawn from larvae now?

That's the only thing I care about. I can adapt to the fungal growth change, but seriously gonna put me behind a bit on builds having to mash buttons multiple times. Kinda changes play style quiet a bit too since now I'll have to mash buttons more rather than holding it down and being done with it. Dumb change imo. Does this mean that other races have to push their buttons multiple times for all their stuff too? So mash a and d a ton for every single marine and maurader? I understand wanting to get some of the pro-micro back from BW days, but some of this stuff is just modernization (like rallying workers). Gotta be kidding me...


The only time I even held a button down was to make banelings. I don't know why holding the button down would change your play style that drastically. And who in their right mind would down down A to queue up max marines? I don't get when is so horrible about this change. And micro doesn't even apply to building units out of larva... It is much easier to count the units that you make by pressing the button anyways. If anything, it is an annoyance.

On December 04 2010 17:43 Zelniq wrote:
there's another change people didnt really notice i think, but it's nice. workers cant mineral walk through enemy units anymore, so you cant scout past units at a choke by right clicking minerals, nor can you escape when workers surround your scout. it's not huge but something to remember come next patch


Also, this affects protoss quite a bit for holding ramps. You can currently use the mineral glitch to slide past singe forcefields blocking the bottom of ramps to gain high ground vision.
www.twitch.tv/Thatgooey
kedinik
Profile Joined September 2010
United States352 Posts
December 04 2010 08:45 GMT
#1378
Oh and when was the last time we had a pro tournament level match where we saw phoenix absolutely rape the crap out of the enemy?


Don't remember the names involved, but the GSL featured a protoss player absolutely annihilating a competent zerg player on scrap station with mass phoenixes. Toss was killing overlords, queens and roaches so fast that zerg could never build any kind of army.
MLG_Wiggin
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States767 Posts
December 04 2010 08:46 GMT
#1379
What's with the 100 post or less people trying to argue with jinro? The best is the guy talking about Protoss players in the gsl... do you not realize his credentials?

Anyway, on topic, coming from the Terran perspective these are certainly interesting changes. Drops lategame will be much easier against Zerg. It'll be interesting to see if we see an influx of stargate play on the na servers. Can't wait for chat channels. Anyone have any info on what it'll take to get into Masters League?
@DBWiggin, SC2 ref
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
December 04 2010 08:46 GMT
#1380
Thanks a bunch for posting these, I dont get some of these changes, but the Hotkeys are AWESOME!!
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
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