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On December 04 2010 16:33 Jaeger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 16:26 Amui wrote:
Phoenix are not actually that good in large numbers at killing ground. +1 phoenix 4 shot hydras, and 4 phoenix kill 5 hydras. However, 8 phoenix do not kill 10 hydra's because the first phoenix to pick up also gets killed extremely quickly, and drops it's target before it's killed, which snowballs. They do retain the role of anti-ovies though, and you can reach the critical number of 4 20 seconds earlier =).
As for the voidray buff, they now only need to be 3attack/1 armor up on a BC to 1v1 it without precharge, or else just 2/1 with charge.
The removal of keyholding makes me very, very sad. How on earth are you going to make 40 zerglings late-game as zerg now? Don't phoenix also 4shot hydras at +0 +1 +2 and +3? Never really understood the fascination with +1 air attack instead of warp gate tech.
hydra's regen a miniscule amount of hp between shots, so regardless, as long as it does not take 80 damage in one hit, it will survive any number of attacks that add up to 80. That is why +1 air attacks is important, because it hits a breakpoint.
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On December 04 2010 17:00 DreamSailor wrote:
Spore crawlers also double as detection so if the opponent does the Bisu build you'll already have detection.
Well micro'd Mutalisks can force a retreat from Phoenix. Phoenix are very fragile, just like Mutalisks. If you fake a retreat and immediately double back you can get a volley off potentially killing lots.
Lol@ Hydras are worthless comment. Hydralisks smash gateway units pretty damn badly, chances are if he wen't early Phoenix he is low on Stalker/Sentry, which means cannons and Zealots. Roach/Hydra is very strong vs. non-Colossus/HT Protoss. Zealots and Hydras have the same speed aside from buffs. So everyone complaining that Hydralisks are soooOooooOooo slow off creep need to realize they have the same speed as Zealots, a melee unit.
Work on creep spread, and Hydralisks are very powerful vs. Protoss. You just need to watch out for Colossus and High Templar.
For many maps if you make roach/hydra you can't be aggressive until after the Protoss has the time to get colossi. Generally you can setup some transitions (corruptors) to handle this, but if you have to skew too much towards hydralisks early on and/or are unable to secure a 3rd then it becomes very problematic.
Hydras off creep are slow enough that they easily lose the superior concave to stalkers which is huge and are also vulnerable to forcefields or counter attacks.
Complaining about fluxvanes is like complaining about something about your race that is never or rarely used... Like a Yamato Cannon nerf or the 250mm cannons.... or for zerg complaining about ... wait nvm pretty much all of zerg units are used.... lol
That's because we don't have enough options to pick and choose what units to use. When one of our units seems weak we make the best of it and use it anyways because we have nothing else we can use.
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On December 04 2010 17:02 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 16:59 kedinik wrote:On December 04 2010 16:34 Dingobloo wrote:On December 04 2010 16:18 kedinik wrote:
Protoss already had the advantage at all levels of PvZ play, whether you look at the ladder stats or the GSL. Just a goofy patch. You mean those ladder stats that said PvZ was either balanced (within 5%) in the case of NA/Europe or heavily zerg favoured in the case of korea? Those ladder stats? Or the GSL3 stats that show 11 games to 11 games in favor of neither? Yeah um being +10% (45 vs 55) with millions of samples is not very balanced. I won't QQ about it but protoss had a slight edge already. well also those are the "adjusted percentages", whatever that means(i still dont understand it) not that i give a shit about the percentages anyways, im just saying, in the hard percentages it has protoss winning less than zerg, though it's very close
Ah, I apologize, was way off with the stats that I remembered.
Just didn't seem like the numbers pointed towards P being at a disadvantage, and I don't think "sure, protoss usually win vZ, but they FEEL like they need a buff" is worth a lot.
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What I would like is a change in warping-in units to be able to assign a command such as Attackmove, hold position, patrol etc.
This would help out in issueing commands to reinforcement especially attackmove. Right now issueing attackmoves does nothing and the warped in units will just stand there. Only move commands works.
edit: Also morphing banelings able to issued a burrow command. After they finish morphing they burrow.
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On December 04 2010 17:04 kedinik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 17:02 travis wrote:On December 04 2010 16:59 kedinik wrote:On December 04 2010 16:34 Dingobloo wrote:On December 04 2010 16:18 kedinik wrote:
Protoss already had the advantage at all levels of PvZ play, whether you look at the ladder stats or the GSL. Just a goofy patch. You mean those ladder stats that said PvZ was either balanced (within 5%) in the case of NA/Europe or heavily zerg favoured in the case of korea? Those ladder stats? Or the GSL3 stats that show 11 games to 11 games in favor of neither? Yeah um being +10% (45 vs 55) with millions of samples is not very balanced. I won't QQ about it but protoss had a slight edge already. well also those are the "adjusted percentages", whatever that means(i still dont understand it) not that i give a shit about the percentages anyways, im just saying, in the hard percentages it has protoss winning less than zerg, though it's very close My issue with those win %s is that since the last patch ZvP has changed a ton from what the Protoss players do. Meanwhile Zerg has evolved a bit, but not nearly to the same amount and it doesn't really seem like there's much more in terms of new stuff that zergs will pull out. So if you have a bunch of zergs doing well practiced builds on the ladder and a bunch of Protoss players learning completely new builds and transitions... well that seems like it'd affect win % a bit. Ah, I apologize, was way off with the stats that I remembered..
Just didn't seem like any of the numbers pointed towards P being at a disadvantage.
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On December 04 2010 16:52 KnightOfNi wrote:
To all you zergs out there: Q_Q about your macro. Q fucking Q.
All the other races have to spam their button to get the units they want (I have to go aaaaaaaaaaadd to make my marines off 2 bases, way more late game, protoss has to individually warp in units), so why the hell should zerg have ezmode for macro late game (which is already really easy because you have exactly 1 unit producing structure)? Make all your units individually pl0x, just like everyone else.
QFT. Being able to make 40 zerglings with 1 keystroke is just retarded
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On December 04 2010 17:05 yrag89 wrote:
What I would like is a change in warping-in units to be able to assign a command such as Attackmove, hold position, patrol etc.
This would help out in issueing commands to reinforcement especially attackmove. Right now issueing attackmoves does nothing and the warped in units will just stand there. Only move commands works.
You cant que attack or hold or anything on any other unit as it is in production, why would only upgraded gateways be the exception. Any good player would be able to do with without issue anywise.
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On December 04 2010 17:07 aAa.Freakz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 16:52 KnightOfNi wrote:
To all you zergs out there: Q_Q about your macro. Q fucking Q.
All the other races have to spam their button to get the units they want (I have to go aaaaaaaaaaadd to make my marines off 2 bases, way more late game, protoss has to individually warp in units), so why the hell should zerg have ezmode for macro late game (which is already really easy because you have exactly 1 unit producing structure)? Make all your units individually pl0x, just like everyone else. QFT. Being able to make 40 zerglings with 1 keystroke is just retarded
I don't think this button thing is a big deal one way or the other.
But it's one of those silly stealth-balance changes where they're like "Let's make our game shittier and harder to play instead of balancing things well".
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Plunder Isle <3
I loved that map so much @ WC3
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Selecting different units in quick succession will now fade out existing replies to play the most recent reply.
Customizable Hotkey Support has been added.
This is so awesome. I don't even care about the balance changes. lol The last thing remaining for my life to be perfect is the F-keys returning to their original places.
Fixed an issue with harvesting units bypassing force fields
This was a bug? I'm sad.
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On December 04 2010 17:11 clusen wrote:
Plunder Isle <3
I loved that map so much @ WC3
Yeah it was a pretty good map for WC3. Don't think it will be too good for SC2, though.
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What exactly happend to the ultralisk? I like the patch, but I think the infestor change will make zvz a muta war again. Not all that worried about phoenix, I think it's gonna be the flavor of the month but then they will realize that they are extremely vulnerable to a hydra push. But it's nice that protoss now also has an air option.
And the greatest change of all, so many scvs will die now woohoo
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The Phoenix still takes longer to build than a Muta..Just food for thought.
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On December 04 2010 17:10 kedinik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2010 17:07 aAa.Freakz wrote:On December 04 2010 16:52 KnightOfNi wrote:
To all you zergs out there: Q_Q about your macro. Q fucking Q.
All the other races have to spam their button to get the units they want (I have to go aaaaaaaaaaadd to make my marines off 2 bases, way more late game, protoss has to individually warp in units), so why the hell should zerg have ezmode for macro late game (which is already really easy because you have exactly 1 unit producing structure)? Make all your units individually pl0x, just like everyone else. QFT. Being able to make 40 zerglings with 1 keystroke is just retarded I don't think this button thing is a big deal one way or the other. But it's one of those silly stealth-balance changes where they're like "Let's make our game shittier and harder to play instead of balancing things well".
How does it make the game shittier if all you need to do is tap a button on your keyboard a few times? Pushing a button 5 times a second is nothing for a gamer.
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Well I've spent the last 3-4 hours reading this entire thread at work so thanks for the entertainment. As for the patch. Ultra fix was needed. Scv attack priority was needed ( don't know what took so long on this fix). My jaw literally dropped when I read the fungal change.... I think its going to cause major problems but we will see. The fact that I have to hit my keyboard 10x more in long games is going to get old fast.
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On December 04 2010 17:16 moose162 wrote:
The Phoenix still takes longer to build than a Muta..Just food for thought.
Only if you aim to keep your nexus energy high.
However if you use it like you should, 17.5s works out to be quite a bit less than 33s.
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Is there a picture of Blunder Isle anywhere? I'm in Europe and I can't play PTR, but I want to see what map it is.
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How does it make the game shittier if all you need to do is tap a button on your keyboard a few times? Pushing a button 5 times a second is nothing for a gamer.
What about the Zerg players who get repetitive strain injury symptoms? I'm sure there are people out there who may even be forced to switch races just to avoid the damage to their bodies.
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EPT
