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On November 29 2010 15:13 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2010 15:02 mizU wrote:On November 29 2010 14:36 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:On November 29 2010 14:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On November 29 2010 14:18 Loser777 wrote: If you're not walling off, placing the depot next to the mineral line is the most efficient use of resources, as SCVs can return to mining immediately after --there's a reason for that, it's not "because they can". Try as they might, Protoss can't place their Pylon in the middle of their mineral line, although that would be just as resource efficient. Yes they can, ![[image loading]](http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4523/screenshot2010112821325.jpg) Your mining time would be reduced with that pylon placement. @OP, I agree with your post. Terran's abilities seem a little more developed and synergetic than the other races. Repair as an ability, seems like a pretty big advantage as an OPTION rather than zerg's heal or protoss' shield, which reduces their fluidity. You can do this placement without losing mining time, you just have to tell the probe on the far right right to build it. ![[image loading]](http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7083/screenshot2010112822102.jpg)
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The most micro-intensive race is protoss, especially in zerg vs protoss where you really can't afford to loose units, you loose your entire army at any point it's practicly over.
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I really hate the term "skill ceiling" or "skill cap", because it assumes that its possible to reach some point where you can't get any better. It is not possible to play perfectly, we can only get as close to perfection as humanly possible. No one is fast enough to do everything perfectly in the late game, there are simply too many possible things we could do and we can only be in one place at a time.
Even a player like Flash, amazing as he is, could get better and will never be able to play brood war perfecly, but he is as close to perfection as anyone I have seen.
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[QUOTE]On December 27 2010 04:23 FLuE wrote: [quote]All i can say is that you need more micro for terran then you would need for the other races to be in diamond.[/quote]
im guessing uve never played starcraft 1d ont talk about terran being the most micro heavy race in sc2. sc2 macro is gone now that terran can mass select buildings protoss can warp any gateway unit with w. and zerg can hold down 1 key to make a ton of units.
every race is micro intensive.
unless u played rank B or higher in iccup as terran vs zerg going bio thats the most micro intense games ive ever played. terrans mainly need fast hands in sc1 as do all races but thats not the case in starcraft 2
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Yeah I never said that, someone else did I had just quoted them. So use their name and their quote I said it wasn't true. You took my quote of a quote and made it look like I said that, would appreciate you editing and fixing that.
Also, comparing sc1 and sc2 to talk about race micro is the dumbest thing ever with all the different mechanics that exist for all races in sc2 unless you are having some discussion directly comparing the 2 games. This thread, and the micro comments have no relation to SC1 no real need to bring SC1 into the conversation at all. So your post is all sorts of fail good work.
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On December 27 2010 05:04 FLuE wrote: Yeah I never said that, someone else did I had just quoted them. So use their name and their quote I said it wasn't true. You took my quote of a quote and made it look like I said that, would appreciate you editing and fixing that.
Also, comparing sc1 and sc2 to talk about race micro is the dumbest thing ever with all the different mechanics that exist for all races in sc2 unless you are having some discussion directly comparing the 2 games. This thread, and the micro comments have no relation to SC1 no real need to bring SC1 into the conversation at all. So your post is all sorts of fail good work.
then dont compare an easy race to play with other races in sc2. terran dosent require good micro marines have very high dps they can basicaly shot while moving. sc2 is very easy to micro any unit because there is no unit delay in movement in sc2 so u fail, i wont compare sc1 to sc2 anymore since its clear uve never played sc1 or even at a high level
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On December 27 2010 06:03 blacksnow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 05:04 FLuE wrote: Yeah I never said that, someone else did I had just quoted them. So use their name and their quote I said it wasn't true. You took my quote of a quote and made it look like I said that, would appreciate you editing and fixing that.
Also, comparing sc1 and sc2 to talk about race micro is the dumbest thing ever with all the different mechanics that exist for all races in sc2 unless you are having some discussion directly comparing the 2 games. This thread, and the micro comments have no relation to SC1 no real need to bring SC1 into the conversation at all. So your post is all sorts of fail good work. then dont compare an easy race to play with other races in sc2. terran dosent require good micro marines have very high dps they can basicaly shot while moving. sc2 is very easy to micro any unit because there is no unit delay in movement in sc2 so u fail, i wont compare sc1 to sc2 anymore since its clear uve never played sc1 or even at a high level What is this, I don't even...I was just wandering TL, and I saw this comment. I have no clue what you're trying to say or why you seem so elitist when he seems to be taking a very logical and neutral stance. He never even compares SC1 to SC2, but apparently he fails. Are you trying to say that T is the "easy race" in SC2? That because it's easier to micro every unit, it makes T easy to play? I'm no pro, but every race is quite difficult to play at a decent level, and trying to stutterstep an entire fight while macroing well doesn't seem like an easy task.
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8751 Posts
terran and zerg have highest skill ceilings because they're further away from hitting the protoss ceiling, which is the highest, because they first need to switch race to protoss.
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terr13, thank you. I have no idea what he is talking about. I am either being trolled big time or the guy has the reading comprehension of a monkey.
Not even sure how I got drug into what he said, I think it started with him using a quote by FeyFey and attributing it to me? Somehow SC1 is now involved?
Jesus, shit like that just makes my brain hurt.
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I would like to see Chronoboost and Zerg Creep have more then it's 1 use. Chrono boosting an individual unit to increase shield regen and or abilities? Or even give the nexus a secondary ability to phase any unit or allied building out for 10 seconds but have it cost 50 energy so it can be spammed?? (kinda of like the mothership ability?) IT could allow for some interesting ways to save collosi or help pvz by walling in? For Zerg maybe give all buildings a light static defense? since they are alive?
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On December 27 2010 06:15 Liquid`Tyler wrote: terran and zerg have highest skill ceilings because they're further away from hitting the protoss ceiling, which is the highest, because they first need to switch race to protoss. Nony trolling leading the way!
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On December 27 2010 06:15 Liquid`Tyler wrote: terran and zerg have highest skill ceilings because they're further away from hitting the protoss ceiling, which is the highest, because they first need to switch race to protoss.
You actually think protoss has the highest skill ceiling? I'd really like to know why.
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On December 27 2010 06:15 Liquid`Tyler wrote: terran and zerg have highest skill ceilings because they're further away from hitting the protoss ceiling, which is the highest, because they first need to switch race to protoss.
Whereas the Protoss skill ceiling is flying in the air like the eagles of America...
Anyways, I don't think there's a point to this thread. There's no real meaningful discussion. "Terran have the highest skill ceiling."
.....
So? It's not like anyone's going to switch out from Terran or anything. Most of this thread is people flaming other people, anyways.
Although I do have to agree that Terran units have more synergy than the other races (Zealots charge while you have Storm... so they charge into the storm? D
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he just stated why... :S because they need to switch to protoss first...
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8751 Posts
On December 27 2010 10:55 AndAgain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 06:15 Liquid`Tyler wrote: terran and zerg have highest skill ceilings because they're further away from hitting the protoss ceiling, which is the highest, because they first need to switch race to protoss. You actually think protoss has the highest skill ceiling? I'd really like to know why. i have no idea. the skill ceiling for starcraft in general, for any race, is so high that no one is near reaching it. it will never matter which race has the highest skill ceiling because the race with the lowest ceiling is still far beyond our reach.
but i am very tempted to tell the next terran i lose to that i would have won if only my race could take advantage of my skills. that's a new level of trash talking and arrogance.
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On December 27 2010 06:03 blacksnow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 05:04 FLuE wrote: Yeah I never said that, someone else did I had just quoted them. So use their name and their quote I said it wasn't true. You took my quote of a quote and made it look like I said that, would appreciate you editing and fixing that.
Also, comparing sc1 and sc2 to talk about race micro is the dumbest thing ever with all the different mechanics that exist for all races in sc2 unless you are having some discussion directly comparing the 2 games. This thread, and the micro comments have no relation to SC1 no real need to bring SC1 into the conversation at all. So your post is all sorts of fail good work. then dont compare an easy race to play with other races in sc2. terran dosent require good micro marines have very high dps they can basicaly shot while moving. sc2 is very easy to micro any unit because there is no unit delay in movement in sc2 so u fail, i wont compare sc1 to sc2 anymore since its clear uve never played sc1 or even at a high level In order to make marines shutter shoot, you need micro...
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On December 27 2010 14:05 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 06:03 blacksnow wrote:On December 27 2010 05:04 FLuE wrote: Yeah I never said that, someone else did I had just quoted them. So use their name and their quote I said it wasn't true. You took my quote of a quote and made it look like I said that, would appreciate you editing and fixing that.
Also, comparing sc1 and sc2 to talk about race micro is the dumbest thing ever with all the different mechanics that exist for all races in sc2 unless you are having some discussion directly comparing the 2 games. This thread, and the micro comments have no relation to SC1 no real need to bring SC1 into the conversation at all. So your post is all sorts of fail good work. then dont compare an easy race to play with other races in sc2. terran dosent require good micro marines have very high dps they can basicaly shot while moving. sc2 is very easy to micro any unit because there is no unit delay in movement in sc2 so u fail, i wont compare sc1 to sc2 anymore since its clear uve never played sc1 or even at a high level In order to make marines shutter shoot, you need micro... Yep that's like saying "Protoss doesn't require micro. And Reavers wreck mineral lines" when discussing BW.
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enjoyed the read. good analysis
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Too bad blizzard just nerfs so much that strategies get funneled. Supply depot b4 rax is a prime example. They are nerfing everything that seems overpowered, and now we have limited options. Compare this to BW, where a bunch of individual overpowered units mashed together formed perfect balance.
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I wanted to type up some nonsense about how a mechanical skill ceiling isn't even relative... This is a strategy game, and as long as a strategy game is reasonably balanced then best responses and Nash equilibrium and game theory+mind games take far more precedent over something like a mechanical skill ceiling... But I'm no pro gamer or game theorist either. And there will never be a consensus on "balance" (at least not for a long time)
Now if you want to talk about a game theory skill ceiling, I'd say you're totally jumping the gun, the meta game is totally under developed and best responses are still being formulated...
EDIT: +1 to what NonY Liquid`Tyler said as well :D
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