EPTI think that point comes earlier for protoss than terran or zerg. While I'm moving my army around in a big ball, terrans can do drops and harass without a problem, zergs can focus on heavy expanding and getting map control. Protoss can do that, but it has to be forced given the race clearly isn't designed for those kind of things.
Terrans Have Highest Skill Ceiling - Page 16
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
I think that point comes earlier for protoss than terran or zerg. While I'm moving my army around in a big ball, terrans can do drops and harass without a problem, zergs can focus on heavy expanding and getting map control. Protoss can do that, but it has to be forced given the race clearly isn't designed for those kind of things. | ||
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RonaldRayGun
United States200 Posts
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Vari
United States532 Posts
On December 27 2010 14:57 RonaldRayGun wrote: I looked at the title and I lol'd. Zerg has the highest ceiling, and Protoss second. Terran is forgiving. You can call down mules if you forget to, or if you pose alll your workers. Furthermore, you can scan instead of scouting. yes and these are the only factors in the game OH WAIT I could just as easily say it's easiest for zerg to replenish lost units so they're forgiving force fields allow toss to engage in bad spots so they're forgiving. ... in fact, all the races forgive certain mistakes more than others. it's almost like they're all different and yet balanced against each other. | ||
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Vari
United States532 Posts
On December 27 2010 14:51 AndAgain wrote: It's not about playing your race perfectly. It's about reaching that point where the improvement mountain becomes steeper. I think that point comes earlier for protoss than terran or zerg. While I'm moving my army around in a big ball, terrans can do drops and harass without a problem, zergs can focus on heavy expanding and getting map control. Protoss can do that, but it has to be forced given the race clearly isn't designed for those kind of things. warp in + warp prism isn't designed for strong harass? warp in isn't great for defending an expo? | ||
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Niso
Australia148 Posts
Zerg has the highest ceiling, and Protoss second. Terran is forgiving. You can call down mules if you forget to, or if you pose alll your workers. Furthermore, you can scan instead of scouting. yet if a terran push out with their army and lose it all, and the opponent decides to counter attack the terran will almost certainly lose because of their production mechanic, if the same scenario was applied to protoss and zerg, toss will have warpgates to quickly warp in units and zerg have larvae to mass spawn units. | ||
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RonaldRayGun
United States200 Posts
On December 27 2010 15:08 Niso wrote: yet if a terran push out with their army and lose it all, and the opponent decides to counter attack the terran will almost certainly lose because of their production mechanic, if the same scenario was applied to protoss and zerg, toss will have warpgates to quickly warp in units and zerg have larvae to mass spawn units. It's their fault for not attacking with a superior army due to their ease in mineral harvesting, ease of expansion, and overpowered units. Regardless, your point is irrelevant because this is a discussion of skill ceiling, not minimum skill required. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On December 27 2010 14:57 RonaldRayGun wrote: I looked at the title and I lol'd. Zerg has the highest ceiling, and Protoss second. Terran is forgiving. You can call down mules if you forget to, or if you pose alll your workers. Furthermore, you can scan instead of scouting. You're the perfect example of a brainwashed person. You're very likely to be in bronze and can only repeat false claims made by other bronze noobs. You don't even know what skill ceiling means, so you assume it has something to do with the difficulty of playing a race. Please stop polluting the forums. | ||
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LOcDowN
United States1015 Posts
On December 27 2010 15:19 Saechiis wrote: You're the perfect example of a brainwashed person. You're very likely to be in bronze and can only repeat false claims made by other bronze noobs. You don't even know what skill ceiling means, so you assume it has something to do with the difficulty of playing a race. Please stop polluting the forums. Ouch | ||
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RonaldRayGun
United States200 Posts
On December 27 2010 15:19 Saechiis wrote: You're the perfect example of a brainwashed person. You're very likely to be in bronze and can only repeat false claims made by other bronze noobs. You don't even know what skill ceiling means, so you assume it has something to do with the difficulty of playing a race. Please stop polluting the forums. Absolutely not. I listen to the pros like Artosis and IdrA. Incontrol and NonY also had some harsh words for this mechanic. It seems a little OP. Not in my level of play (gold), but in pro level. | ||
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slith
Germany165 Posts
 My bet is on Zerg, because of the production mechanics. At the highest level it will be all about math, and Zerg shine when it comes to maths as far as I, a pretty clever chimpanzee, can tell. + Show Spoiler + But maybe perfect Marine micro is just too imba.. | ||
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Vari
United States532 Posts
On December 27 2010 15:13 RonaldRayGun wrote: It's their fault for not attacking with a superior army due to their ease in mineral harvesting, ease of expansion, and overpowered units. Regardless, your point is irrelevant because this is a discussion of skill ceiling, not minimum skill required. yeah you don't seem biased at all | ||
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RonaldRayGun
United States200 Posts
Back on topic: Terran does not have the highest skill cmeilig. Their production mechanics prevent that. So does their amount of units; one cannot get them all. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On December 27 2010 15:22 RonaldRayGun wrote: Absolutely not. I listen to the pros like Artosis and IdrA. Incontrol and NonY also had some harsh words for this mechanic. It seems a little OP. Not in my level of play (gold), but in pro level. 2 Zergs and 2 Protosses think a race other than their own is overpowered, shocking. The MULE is the more forgiving of the three macro mechanics in essence that you can instantly spend your energy when you've been sloppy in your macro. Unfortunately though, you can't just look at it in a vacuum. First of all, the MULE isn't some kind of bonus on top of even economies. Terran is the only race that can't power harvesters, which is kind of key in an economy based RTS. SCV's will always take 17 seconds to build and can be only built 1 at a time per CC. Compare that to Zerg who can built multiple drones at a time and Protoss that can cut down probe build time by 10 seconds per chronoboost, and you'll see that Terran will inevitably lag behind in worker production, and consequently income. Hence the Terran macro mechanic, the MULE, which exists to counteract the disparity in mining workers. The reason that the MULE is more forgiving a macro mechanic in forgetting it, is because Terran macro itself is the most unforgiving of the three races. Since Zerg and Protoss have macro mechanics that boost production it's easier for them to boost out units to spend their money excesses. Terran production can only be boosted by building more production facilities which inevitably means that you can't spend your money if you haven't been macro'ing well. If you're floating 5k gas you can't spend it instantly to morph all your larvae into Ultra's, you can only build a bunch of extra factories/ starports/ add-ons and wait 60 seconds before you can start using them to produce actual units. And once you've burned through your excess gas by building more production facilities than you can actually support from your income ,you're stuck with expensive idle buildings. Sure it seems overpowered when a bad macroíng Terran throws down 8 MULE's and matches his opponents mineral income with it for their 90 second duration. But he can't actually pour that money immediately into units. He's just now getting the money he would have gotten during the 8x 90 seconds before if he had macroed well. Overall, Terran's slower worker production combined with the MULE's ability of ignoring mineral saturation means that Terrans overall stay on 1 base longer, which gives many noobs the idea that "Terran can just 1-base forever since MULE's give infinity minerals". Edit: I feel like I've wasted my time explaining race mechanics to someone who just wants to put his fingers in his ears and yell imba so he doesn't have to face the fact that he's in Gold because he's just not that good a player. | ||
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pezit
Sweden302 Posts
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
On December 27 2010 17:33 Saracen wrote: I don't want to lock this thread, but all this "my race is harder" bullshit is getting really tiresome. i'm suprised it wasn't locked already, everyone chose their race because it fits them more and it capitalizes on their skill set. However after playing 1,000 games as protoss in high diamond i switched to Terran because i felt it had the highest skill ceiling as a warcraft 3 player. Protoss NEEDED defensive micro ie pulling zealots back/ahead using forcefields... where as Terran didn't need but REWARDED offensive micro such as splitting/stutterstep and multi tasking drop ships. Theres never going to be a way to say "X race" is harder or has a higher skill ceiling because everyone thinks differently, which is why this game is so great. | ||
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Vari
United States532 Posts
On December 27 2010 15:43 RonaldRayGun wrote: I am biased. I play Protoss, and I am bitter about losing, but when I win, I know it is skill that allows me to win. and when the other player wins it's just the same the sooner you accept that the better you'll feel. promise. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On December 27 2010 14:57 RonaldRayGun wrote: I looked at the title and I lol'd. Zerg has the highest ceiling, and Protoss second. Terran is forgiving. You can call down mules if you forget to, or if you pose alll your workers. Furthermore, you can scan instead of scouting. Skill ceiling =/= how easy it is to play. Obviously if you're playing Terran at the "highest level possible" you aren't forgetting any mules, thus your argument is null. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On December 27 2010 15:22 RonaldRayGun wrote: Absolutely not. I listen to the pros like Artosis and IdrA. Incontrol and NonY also had some harsh words for this mechanic. It seems a little OP. Not in my level of play (gold), but in pro level. if you listen to artosis and idra, may god have mercy on your soul i play protoss and terran definitely has the highest skil ceiling. there are so many things you can do with terran it's insane. i think toss and zerg are easier to get good at. | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
Every race has their hardness. As zerg I need to know exactly how I defend. If I get behind economically or lose all mapcontroll, I can easily lose the game. As protoss I need to know when and where to put my forcefields down. Make sure there are pylons around the map and keeping up with chronoboosts. As terran, hell if I know what I should do. I'm a zerg, not a terran, bah. I'll quote a progamer on this one and say the hardest is to keep your money low. Which coming from zerg is actually much harder than it may seem. If I have 1000 minerals as zerg, I'll gladly make 20 drones and grin like a toddler. With terran, I can make sure my marines inside the barracks have company, but it doesn't really help the situation any further. All these things. Points, Diamond/platinum/gold, ranks, skill ceilings, apm. They all are numbers that distract you from getting better. | ||
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