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On October 28 2010 18:38 TBO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 18:12 FliedLice wrote:
not uploading a replay seems to give 9minor pps from what i can tell by looking at naniwas ESL profile.
the major one was awarded for not showing to a match at all it seems not uploading a replay gives 3 penalty points each... which is quite funny. If you win 2:0 and don't upload the replays you get 6 pps if you win 2:1 you get 9 pps. Rules also state that both players get the penalty points if no replays are uploaded after 6 hours (which didn't happen, just Naniwa got them). Strangely enough you only get 1 penalty point per missing replay in the Dawn of War EPS. Maybe its because you have to zip the replays there and they account for the higher effort players have to do with uploading, I can see no other reason to punish the same mistake differently just because the game has a different name.
This is particularly interesting if it is true. Different players get different treatments ? As much as I dislike Naniwa's BM (too much is too much), getting banned over replays not uploaded is sad.
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Well the biggest reason why he was kicked was because he refused to play a match because he didn`t feel like playing.
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On October 28 2010 19:59 Zog wrote:
This is particularly interesting if it is true. Different players get different treatments ? As much as I dislike Naniwa's BM (too much is too much), getting banned over replays not uploaded is sad.
If a player drops out all the wildcards and penalty points earned/lost by other players in matches against him will be reset. That's why OgerTob's penalty points for the missing replays were removed again.
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Ah good to see that there is an explanation. Its a weird rule though because if someone else drops out now, which happened to be an opponent of Naniwa in a game where he got some penalty points, they would have to be removed as well - meaning he has less than 30 points again in some circumstances. I mean you can have a rule which says once you are out, you are out but the point is that others players mistakes can mean nullifying your own mistakes, which makes no sense.
I mean why should things happening in the present/future affect past things like that. The whole point of penalty points as I understand is, is to enforce players to behave professionally and according to the rules... just because Naniwa did something wrong, suddenly OgerTob didn't do anything wrong anymore?
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ok, I just want to comment on the whole "german doesn't like foreigners"-issue
as darkforce has completely correctly stated, the EPS is NOT an international thing; you can argue if it would be good if EPS would "advance", open itself to be more international, etc....but all of this has basicly nothing to do with all of the aforementioned arguments
if foreigners move to germany to participate in EPS...why on earth should esl-admins be responsible for "translating" all the necessary stuff? is it so much to ask if these foreingers ask...well...friends that actually speak german to help them? I think you here at TL should give esl-admins a break on this one; if I move to the united states to participate in an US league, why the hell should I expect that US ppl tell me in german how to organize my own stuff? yeah, yeah, it's the old "everybody must be able to talk english", but here it's something different because EPS never was INTENDED to be an international league; therefore nobody has the "right" to demand guidance from esl-admins if he has problems due to the language-barrier; even if esl-admins would refuse any help at all on this one (which I'm sure isn't the case)....there are really no ground to blame them for this; tbh they have enough work to do as it is
furthermore, if somebody intentionally decides to participate in this (german) league, and actually moves to germany just because of it, you could expect from him to organize his stuff properly; therefore to all those of you who argue that esl is overly complicated with many important stuff being available just in german....well.....yeah, doesn't this kinda makes sense in a german league?
also complaining about german fans not rooting for foreingers; seriously? what's wrong with that all of a sudden? it's the same with every "real"sports, you cheer for your team even if they suck terribad....cmon now
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On October 27 2010 22:13 Jimmy Raynor wrote:
Seems so counterintuitive, man.
Its Germany, it has nothing to do with intuition.
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Why all the hate? Next time you move from your country to go to a tournament and you get banned for stupid rules, we're gonna laugh as well.
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On October 28 2010 20:32 TBO wrote:
I mean why should things happening in the present/future affect past things like that. The whole point of penalty points as I understand is, is to enforce players to behave professionally and according to the rules... just because Naniwa did something wrong, suddenly OgerTob didn't do anything wrong anymore?
I agree and I won't say that our ruleset is flawless. We will be discussing some of the penalty-rules for the next season, that's for sure.
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What? Why didn't he play a match? Why go to Germany to play in this competition and then decide you don't feel like playing?
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 28 2010 20:42 OutlaW- wrote:
Why all the hate? Next time you move from your country to go to a tournament and you get banned for stupid rules, we're gonna laugh as well.
Agreed. Though most of the haters will never have the talent to go anywhere to do what they are good at.
I feel bad for Nani. Go to a foreign country to compete, get banned over something silly, and then have people laughing at you. Well, good luck next time Nani. 
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On October 28 2010 23:04 MrLonely wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 20:42 OutlaW- wrote:
Why all the hate? Next time you move from your country to go to a tournament and you get banned for stupid rules, we're gonna laugh as well. Agreed. Though most of the haters will never have the talent to go anywhere to do what they are good at. I feel bad for Nani. Go to a foreign country to compete, get banned over something silly, and then have people laughing at you. Well, good luck next time Nani.
he clearly had it coming, it's not like you rack those PPs up in a single of a day :/
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On October 28 2010 23:04 MrLonely wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 20:42 OutlaW- wrote:
Why all the hate? Next time you move from your country to go to a tournament and you get banned for stupid rules, we're gonna laugh as well. Agreed. Though most of the haters will never have the talent to go anywhere to do what they are good at. I feel bad for Nani. Go to a foreign country to compete, get banned over something silly, and then have people laughing at you. Well, good luck next time Nani.
It's not something silly.
It's silly that he didnt do it.
Replay uploading? Takes what? Not even 5mins?
Writing a gamestatement? Also like what? 5mins? Just write 4-5 sentences and you're good. And it doesnt even have to be ultra creative....
Not showing up (without mentioning it in time) - well, try doing that at your job or any other tournament. Wonder how long that would be tolerated before you have to face consequences.
Think it through from the ESL point of view: "Hey sponsor we will have a match at xth of <month>. Wanna sponsor something, while we show some adds for you?" And than no match is being played? What should they tell their sponsors - it'd be unprofessional from them not to penalize the players.
This isnt a happy tournament of friends.
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On October 28 2010 20:32 TBO wrote:
Ah good to see that there is an explanation. Its a weird rule though because if someone else drops out now, which happened to be an opponent of Naniwa in a game where he got some penalty points, they would have to be removed as well - meaning he has less than 30 points again in some circumstances.
with 3 players, this could create a vicious circle going on eternally. ^^
but i like to hear this bad-mannered guy got kicked out of eps. he just has such a bad and annoying attitude, serves him right.
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On October 28 2010 20:33 sleepingdog wrote:
ok, I just want to comment on the whole "german doesn't like foreigners"-issue
as darkforce has completely correctly stated, the EPS is NOT an international thing; you can argue if it would be good if EPS would "advance", open itself to be more international, etc....but all of this has basicly nothing to do with all of the aforementioned arguments
if foreigners move to germany to participate in EPS...why on earth should esl-admins be responsible for "translating" all the necessary stuff? is it so much to ask if these foreingers ask...well...friends that actually speak german to help them? I think you here at TL should give esl-admins a break on this one; if I move to the united states to participate in an US league, why the hell should I expect that US ppl tell me in german how to organize my own stuff? yeah, yeah, it's the old "everybody must be able to talk english", but here it's something different because EPS never was INTENDED to be an international league; therefore nobody has the "right" to demand guidance from esl-admins if he has problems due to the language-barrier; even if esl-admins would refuse any help at all on this one (which I'm sure isn't the case)....there are really no ground to blame them for this; tbh they have enough work to do as it is
furthermore, if somebody intentionally decides to participate in this (german) league, and actually moves to germany just because of it, you could expect from him to organize his stuff properly; therefore to all those of you who argue that esl is overly complicated with many important stuff being available just in german....well.....yeah, doesn't this kinda makes sense in a german league?
also complaining about german fans not rooting for foreingers; seriously? what's wrong with that all of a sudden? it's the same with every "real"sports, you cheer for your team even if they suck terribad....cmon now
Why EPS didn't make a rule state that german citizen only? Clearly that they don't want any foreigner in their league.
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I find it hard to believe how many people actually defend Naniwa. Even though Demuslim has his points regarding the league's rules, and even if the league's admins may have been a bit more diplomatic - there's a huge pile of evidence that's it's apparently very hard to collect that many PP in such a short span of time.
And it's been proven multiple times that Naniwa's behaviour is cocky, arrogant, disrespectful and sometimes even outright insulting as well. Watch his games, read his EPS comments, read all the little anecdotes and stories about him.
It's always good if rude players get banned / punished / shown their limits. Especially if it's a popular player who's in the spotlight.
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On October 28 2010 23:18 lazyfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 20:33 sleepingdog wrote:
ok, I just want to comment on the whole "german doesn't like foreigners"-issue
as darkforce has completely correctly stated, the EPS is NOT an international thing; you can argue if it would be good if EPS would "advance", open itself to be more international, etc....but all of this has basicly nothing to do with all of the aforementioned arguments
if foreigners move to germany to participate in EPS...why on earth should esl-admins be responsible for "translating" all the necessary stuff? is it so much to ask if these foreingers ask...well...friends that actually speak german to help them? I think you here at TL should give esl-admins a break on this one; if I move to the united states to participate in an US league, why the hell should I expect that US ppl tell me in german how to organize my own stuff? yeah, yeah, it's the old "everybody must be able to talk english", but here it's something different because EPS never was INTENDED to be an international league; therefore nobody has the "right" to demand guidance from esl-admins if he has problems due to the language-barrier; even if esl-admins would refuse any help at all on this one (which I'm sure isn't the case)....there are really no ground to blame them for this; tbh they have enough work to do as it is
furthermore, if somebody intentionally decides to participate in this (german) league, and actually moves to germany just because of it, you could expect from him to organize his stuff properly; therefore to all those of you who argue that esl is overly complicated with many important stuff being available just in german....well.....yeah, doesn't this kinda makes sense in a german league?
also complaining about german fans not rooting for foreingers; seriously? what's wrong with that all of a sudden? it's the same with every "real"sports, you cheer for your team even if they suck terribad....cmon now Why EPS didn't make a rule state that german citizen only? Clearly that they don't want any foreigner in their league.
why should they?
as long as they can get accustomed to the rules (as demuslim and cloud seem to be able to do) they can play in the EPS
from what i can tell the "public" responses to having players from abroad playing in the german EPS were pretty positive
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On October 28 2010 23:24 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 23:18 lazyfeet wrote:On October 28 2010 20:33 sleepingdog wrote:
ok, I just want to comment on the whole "german doesn't like foreigners"-issue
as darkforce has completely correctly stated, the EPS is NOT an international thing; you can argue if it would be good if EPS would "advance", open itself to be more international, etc....but all of this has basicly nothing to do with all of the aforementioned arguments
if foreigners move to germany to participate in EPS...why on earth should esl-admins be responsible for "translating" all the necessary stuff? is it so much to ask if these foreingers ask...well...friends that actually speak german to help them? I think you here at TL should give esl-admins a break on this one; if I move to the united states to participate in an US league, why the hell should I expect that US ppl tell me in german how to organize my own stuff? yeah, yeah, it's the old "everybody must be able to talk english", but here it's something different because EPS never was INTENDED to be an international league; therefore nobody has the "right" to demand guidance from esl-admins if he has problems due to the language-barrier; even if esl-admins would refuse any help at all on this one (which I'm sure isn't the case)....there are really no ground to blame them for this; tbh they have enough work to do as it is
furthermore, if somebody intentionally decides to participate in this (german) league, and actually moves to germany just because of it, you could expect from him to organize his stuff properly; therefore to all those of you who argue that esl is overly complicated with many important stuff being available just in german....well.....yeah, doesn't this kinda makes sense in a german league?
also complaining about german fans not rooting for foreingers; seriously? what's wrong with that all of a sudden? it's the same with every "real"sports, you cheer for your team even if they suck terribad....cmon now Why EPS didn't make a rule state that german citizen only? Clearly that they don't want any foreigner in their league. why should they? as long as they can get accustomed to the rules (as demuslim and cloud seem to be able to do) they can play in the EPS from what i can tell the "public" responses to having players from abroad playing in the german EPS were pretty positive
vouch. and about everyone under the age of 30 speaks decent english in germany, so its not like it was any hard to get the rules translated by any friends.
german and english are not that different anyway. learning german for an english native speaker or vice versa is not half as hard as learning an eastern asian language as a westerner.
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Seriously, ESL rules are a bit petty but where the hell is that hate for germans suddenly comin from?
Foreigners get treated just the same way germans get treated in the EPS. Why do you think that this is some sort of anti-foreigner ruleset? Why should anyone get preferential treatment in a professional league?
If you participate in a league u better know the rules beforehand. Everybody here can speak english. Ask anyone nicely and he will explain things to you. Most EPS-players are well mannered and friendly.
But that isn't even the issue anyways. Naniwa didnt get kicked because he didn't know the rules. He got kicked because he was too lazy and has huge attitude problems. Not showing up without any notice to a game because you are "too tired" two days after a lan... When have you heard something like that in any paid sports? Cloud is in the same boat (and even the same house) and he seems to do fine.
Also Demuslim's venting in this thread has mostly nothing to do with ESL or germans in general or german leagues anyways. The defwin rule is the only sensible rule there is for such an incident. You could say Miou was badmannered or unsportsmanlike but there is no way ESL can rule a regame in such a situation because its an invitation for abuse in the future if they do so.
The only thing you could blame on ESL is the Blizzcon thing. But even there I think Demuslim could've worked out things with the ESL in a diplomatic way.
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On October 28 2010 00:52 frequency wrote:
Nani is one of the funniest people I've ever spoken to on vent. You all take him too seriously sometimes.
May be a mistake posting before reading the whole thread, but I have to say something here: What the hell is it with this excuse for general douchebaggery?
Let me tell you a story: I spent seven years playing a text-based MUD called Aetolia. Believe it or not, this MUD, with its less-than-a-thousand-player-strong base, had one of the most hardcore, complex pvp combat systems you will ever see. And that sort of system draws hyper competitive players. You think those dudes from Counterstrike are aggressive? You haven't seen ANYTHING until you've played an IRE game. And jeeeeesus these guys could be assholes. And not just in the normal IdrA fashion either. I mean they could just get plain sick. They'd follow you around on forums and shit all over you AFTER they steamrolled you in the arena. And for whatever reason, these guys had a good number of fans and friends, with the primary excuse for their absolute shit behavior being "Oh man, this guy is FUNNY THOUGH, you take him too seriously EL OH EL."
No. The problem is a lot of people don't take this kind of horseshit seriously enough. Did you ever think that being an asshole may be a CHARACTER FLAW and not something to wear on your shirt? The fact that NaNiwa was an internationally recognized professional player just makes matters worse. Good riddance.
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I don't really know how some people can say german EPS is being racist, they are giving all the PPs they can to pretty much everyone, german players and us three foreigners. To be honest I haven't had problems at all with anyone of the admin crew, they are trying to be as professional as they can, it's just the rules that are a bit too strict and unforgiving in my opinion.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/LFevM.jpg)
