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On October 28 2010 06:39 ch4ppi wrote:Show nested quote +you only have to pay once per month here. so its like a health flatrate for one month. so if you dont want to go to work it costs you 10 Euro offtopic, my bad Wrong its 10€ per quarter (Quartal) This thread is getting kind of outta ure supposed to bash Naniwa not ESL, also its not about any problems Demuslim has with this one lost game he deserved to loose in anyway by the rules. So plz start flaming Naniwa again and not the ESL thanks.
Who are you to decide what we're "supposed" to do?
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On October 28 2010 06:50 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
I can fully support banning Naniwa, BM is nice and cool from time to time but he just over did it.
You are getting the wrong idea. He wasn't banned for his BM but the accumulation of PP from bad punctuation and general sloppiness. Yeah we all know he rages a lot but that should be independent of this topic.
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thanks for the goog news.
being really rude and disrespectful deserves this. exactly and only this.
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What about IEM Europe? Is Naniwa banned from this, too? Because he qualified as a German EPS member I think. And who would replace him?
Other than that, I can only say he had it coming. Rules are needed if one wants to achieve a certain profesionality in e-sports. Especially given the immaturity displayed by some of the "pro" gamers.
Korean tournaments are much more less lenient with their rules..
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Who are you to decide what we're "supposed" to do?
Just a random guy, who is entertained by the drama 
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On October 28 2010 07:00 Redox wrote:
What about IEM Europe? Is Naniwa banned from this, too? Because he qualified as a German EPS member I think.
No, NaNiwa is not banned from the IEM EU championship.
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On October 28 2010 06:57 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 06:50 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
I can fully support banning Naniwa, BM is nice and cool from time to time but he just over did it.
You are getting the wrong idea. He wasn't banned for his BM but the accumulation of PP from bad punctuation and general sloppiness. Yeah we all know he rages a lot but that should be independent of this topic.
Afaik BM stands for bad manners and this includes (at least for me) not only being an ass to other people but also not doing what you are supposed to do (like not uploading replays and so on).
He did a LOT of stuff like that and i mean if you are playing SC2 on a professional level you have to take it like a job, because it pays your bills.
Me personaly i don't like reporting what i do at work (i have to report what project i spend my time on at work) because it's a lot of work which doesn't accomplish anything besides filling out statistics for the guys up stairs but i still do it cause it's part of my job.
Naniwa seems unable to do stuff like that so he gets banned (fired from his pro gamer job).
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When will people eventually grow up and stop screaming and crying about sarcasms/insults, even worse when done online ?
"My words fly up, my thoughts remain below" - Shakespeare
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On October 28 2010 02:45 ch4ppi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 01:55 TeamSoliduss wrote:
German ideology didn't evolve much...
NEIN! VERBOTEN!! Sorry but can a Mod plz take care of that, it's totally inappropriate..
Haha. Germany will never change :D. Same manners as always. Somebody does anything you go snitch out on your fellow man to big brother. Gestapo back in the days, TL-net moderator 2 day.
+ Show Spoiler +So sorry, but its true :D
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On October 28 2010 05:30 DeMusliM wrote:
I don't really want to argue over it, but i can pretty much list the next 3 things that'll happen in that game that put me in a clear winning position.
I had 50 scvs, he had 48 (despite being 3 base, it was only just up) - my army was actually superior to his, he only had 4 tanks, 8 marines some marauders and 2 ground vikings adding up to 22 units in total in his army. I had 2 groups of 23 units each consisting of MMM + 1 (almost 2 tanks) from 2 sides. I would have used scvs which, since the patch soak up tank shots like wildfire - i would have lost roughly 15-18 supply, with him losing his total army, putting me ahead by far (while being on equal harvester count) - with an island expo he can't defend and no army, he would have then lost that island base, along with 25 scvs - making me have double the economy, while he is still rebuilding his force (and he would no longer be ahead in tanks, due to me now building them).
With those events set in place, i was in the lead sir, no matter how you look at it, that fight was certainly a bad one for him and is definitely the mistake he needed to make coming to that position in order for me to win the game.
@darkforce, i only knew myself the details 1 week before hand, i told the admins 3 weeks previous that i might be away during the middle/late middle of the month and if there's anything i can do while keeping it confidential (blizzard want it confidential) - it wasn't as if i didn't give any warning, it's just the 2 weeks notice for PP, given i only had the flights confirmed very shortly before it didn't really give me any other choice, and with the game not being allowed outside of the play week - even though i did give the 3 weeks warning beforehand that i might not be around for 2 matchs (i did manage to postpone the miou match by 1 day - but i didn't realise the flights would also collide with my Inuh game) it wasn't really my fault.
So while i couldn't set any solid date, as i didn't have any dates myself - i did do what i could with the little info i had, and i still think it was kinda harsh to award me with the PP's anyhow.
1.
I saw that game and i think that you would have won game 3 without too much struggle...Miou had to take the fight and if he had lost the fight (which probably would have been the case) he would have lost his whole army without the possibilty of retreating.
On the other hand i have to admit that miou isnt a great player and struggles to not get to the relegation placement. And when such a player is facing one of the best terrans in europe, he has a mental disadvantage beforehand. His nervousness would have increased in the regame, since he had a rather good start with his blueflame hellions in the beginning and i can*t imagine that he thought he could pull that off again. I have to admit that there would have been a regame if an admin,who is a very good sc2 player in the same time, would have watched the replay. But since the admins arent that good, this was not the case. I think admins should seek the advice of unbiased good players for that kind of decisions. Overall i can understand that you are reasonably pissed off.
2.
I think there was somehow a little conflict between ESL, the admins and Naniwa. He criticised the ESL in one statemend, because he was sick and he still had to play a game vs Hasuobs. He said stuff like :"ESL doesnt care about human rights etc".
3.
It's really sad how the foreigners have had such a cold welcome to the EPS. The german community never cheers for any of them, basically they are not welcome as much as the good german player. I can imagine, that this is REALLY frustrating. For instance Miou, a well known wc3 "champion" in germany, got backed up from all sites of the community after he wanted the def win vs Demuslim. Not because it looked like miou had a great advantage in the game, but for the fact that he was MIOU, the german champion (i dont wont to be disrespectful to miou, i respect him very much for his accomplishments). You know, when Teamliquid goes to korea, they get a warm welcome, get help and such. When Naniwa and cloud went to germany they got ignored and people even flamed them in the beginning. When demuslim decided to move to germany people werent that angry (because he announced that like 4 months pre date), but after a while now i have the feeling that gets ignored more and more. And when other players of the eps and the german community talk about demuslim, they talk about him like he is dschingis khan or so and tries to invade countrys and steal something. They are full of fear and jelousy somehow. I mean rivalry is a good thing but sometimes (like in this case) its getting too way over the line...
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On October 28 2010 06:57 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 06:50 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
I can fully support banning Naniwa, BM is nice and cool from time to time but he just over did it.
You are getting the wrong idea. He wasn't banned for his BM but the accumulation of PP from bad punctuation and general sloppiness. Yeah we all know he rages a lot but that should be independent of this topic.
You could say it all stems from his piss poor attitude.
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On October 28 2010 07:15 SyyRaaaN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 02:45 ch4ppi wrote:On October 28 2010 01:55 TeamSoliduss wrote:
German ideology didn't evolve much...
NEIN! VERBOTEN!! Sorry but can a Mod plz take care of that, it's totally inappropriate.. Haha. Germany will never change :D. Same manners as always. Somebody does anything you go snitch out on your fellow man to big brother. Gestapo back in the days, TL-net moderator 2 day. + Show Spoiler +So sorry, but its true :D
Seriously dude, what the fuck?
edit; actually mods feel free to delete this post if the obvious happens
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I read what DeMuslim has to say, and I find his frustration in place. If a person has to travel to such events as Blizzcon with their confidentiality, they should be understanding.
Rules are good and right, but being overly punctual can be inhumane, a bit too robotic. A sick person is sick, can't be helped. Even in football, with all the millions (of people and $) involved, stars can skip the matches, because they are human. No point in punishing them.
Players have to be listened, administrators or team managers have to try to accommodate for foreigners. It's like a no-brainer. They should look at how a german, Dario Wunsch, is treated in Korea and GSL.
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On October 28 2010 07:21 cuppatea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 06:57 Telcontar wrote:On October 28 2010 06:50 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
I can fully support banning Naniwa, BM is nice and cool from time to time but he just over did it.
You are getting the wrong idea. He wasn't banned for his BM but the accumulation of PP from bad punctuation and general sloppiness. Yeah we all know he rages a lot but that should be independent of this topic. You could say it all stems from his piss poor attitude.
Maybe, but that's not why he got kicked out, he was late for games didn't make statements on games and didn't show up to a game. It wouldn't matter if he was the most humble player out there, there were rules set in place and he didn't follow them. If this was WhiteRa or Nony or I don't care who else in the same situation, they'd still get the boot. You can't just not show up to a job and expect to not get fired.
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On October 28 2010 07:37 Fraidnot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 07:21 cuppatea wrote:On October 28 2010 06:57 Telcontar wrote:On October 28 2010 06:50 Innsmouth-Zerg wrote:
I can fully support banning Naniwa, BM is nice and cool from time to time but he just over did it.
You are getting the wrong idea. He wasn't banned for his BM but the accumulation of PP from bad punctuation and general sloppiness. Yeah we all know he rages a lot but that should be independent of this topic. You could say it all stems from his piss poor attitude. Maybe, but that's not why he got kicked out, he was late for games didn't make statements on games and didn't show up to a game. It wouldn't matter if he was the most humble player out there, there were rules set in place and he didn't follow them. If this was WhiteRa or Nony or I don't care who else in the same situation, they'd still get the boot. You can't just not show up to a job and expect to not get fired.
Yes, I'm saying the reason he doesn't bother making statements or showing up for games is the same reason he flames people every time he loses a game - his attitude stinks.
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I think Naniwa totally deserve the ban that he got. For him to mass up so many PP just show the slopiness on his part and MYM.
That said, I believe a completely rigid and unflexible rule system of ESL is stupid. I can understand some rigid rules are require to eliminate uncertainties and to keep everything on schedule for ESL TV but a lot of the rules are written without considering all the implication. Even the GSL is flexible enough to switch schedule for illness (TLO) and Blizzcon (Maka, NexGenius, Boxer, FD, Loner).
To Demuslim: Whatever you do, we will always cheer and support you 
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On October 28 2010 07:31 Xxavi wrote:
Players have to be listened, administrators or team managers have to try to accommodate for foreigners. It's like a no-brainer. They should look at how a german, Dario Wunsch, is treated in Korea and GSL.
You are absolutely mistaken here. The german EPS is NOT an international league like GSL. It is for German residents, just like the American ESL series are only for American residents.
If lets say a French guy decides to move to the US to play in American IEM do you expect their admins to translate everything to French?
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On October 28 2010 07:17 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:
3.
It's really sad how the foreigners have had such a cold welcome to the EPS. The german community never cheers for any of them, basically they are not welcome as much as the good german player. I can imagine, that this is REALLY frustrating. For instance Miou, a well known wc3 "champion" in germany, got backed up from all sites of the community after he wanted the def win vs Demuslim. Not because it looked like miou had a great advantage in the game, but for the fact that he was MIOU, the german champion (i dont wont to be disrespectful to miou, i respect him very much for his accomplishments). You know, when Teamliquid goes to korea, they get a warm welcome, get help and such. When Naniwa and cloud went to germany they got ignored and people even flamed them in the beginning. When demuslim decided to move to germany people werent that angry (because he announced that like 4 months pre date), but after a while now i have the feeling that gets ignored more and more. And when other players of the eps and the german community talk about demuslim, they talk about him like he is dschingis khan or so and tries to invade countrys and steal something. They are full of fear and jelousy somehow. I mean rivalry is a good thing but sometimes (like in this case) its getting too way over the line...
I dont know where you are getting this from. You are making assumptions and generalizations which i find wrong in so many ways i cannot even tell.
In this thread alone you'll find several germans and therefor vocal parts of the german community questioning the esl's decision considering the demuslim miou game.
Also look at all the events Take put together with demuslim being at his home and stuff. I've never heard someone talking down on demuslim or something like that. on the contrary i would much rather call all the stuff Take did a very warm welcome.
I can only speak for myself and the people I know and from that standpoint i have to say that demuslim is absolutely loved here in germany. Not only for his play but also for the fun guy he seems to be. I'm definitely chearing for him and so are others, so please dont make such dumb generalizsations.
naniwa is a whole other story, but i feel that even he has beem treated with respect by the community and by the other players up until now. Other than that you cant really blame anyone for not cheering for him after all the attitude he has shown. Nevertheless this has nothing to do with some sort of german xenophobia or something like that
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On October 28 2010 07:44 DaVincii wrote:
I can only speak for myself and the people I know and from that standpoint i have to say that demuslim is absolutely loved here in germany. Not only for his play but also for the fun guy he seems to be. I'm definitely chearing for him and so are others, so please dont make such dumb generalizsations.
quoted for emphasis
Btw, just realized how much needles off topic drama is going on in this thread again.
Actually there is not much to discuss here.
A player repeatedly violated the rules he agreed to when he signed up for a league -> he got kicked from that league -> The End.
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On October 27 2010 22:20 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +Not supised hes got such a bad attitude every time ret won him he was lol OMG ZERG IMBA ROACH IMBA I don't understand why protoss don't make more immortals to pwn roaches. Only need like 1 or 2 collosi to deal with zerglings.
because if that happened hydras would run over a toss quite epically. the only thing preventing a zerg from going mass hydra vs toss is mass colossus.
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EPT
