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On October 28 2010 07:17 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:
3.
It's really sad how the foreigners have had such a cold welcome to the EPS. The german community never cheers for any of them, basically they are not welcome as much as the good german player. I can imagine, that this is REALLY frustrating. For instance Miou, a well known wc3 "champion" in germany, got backed up from all sites of the community after he wanted the def win vs Demuslim. Not because it looked like miou had a great advantage in the game, but for the fact that he was MIOU, the german champion (i dont wont to be disrespectful to miou, i respect him very much for his accomplishments). You know, when Teamliquid goes to korea, they get a warm welcome, get help and such. When Naniwa and cloud went to germany they got ignored and people even flamed them in the beginning. When demuslim decided to move to germany people werent that angry (because he announced that like 4 months pre date), but after a while now i have the feeling that gets ignored more and more. And when other players of the eps and the german community talk about demuslim, they talk about him like he is dschingis khan or so and tries to invade countrys and steal something. They are full of fear and jelousy somehow. I mean rivalry is a good thing but sometimes (like in this case) its getting too way over the line...
This is such a bullshit, the _german_ EPS is not an international league, it is, as the name says, a german league, if someone moves to germany in order to participate, he gets the exactly same treatment as everyone else. none of the foreigners was treated any worse by admins than the german players. what you want is that the foreigners get favored by the admins, you expect them to invest alot of time into translating the rules and explaining it to them personally, but this is completely unreasonable, as all the germans have to find and read the rules themselves aswell. it might sound harsh, but its not the admins fault that they dont speak german.
now about the community: most people, as someone else already said, really like demuslim, and from what i have read, quite many also like cloud. especially cloud shows a mature and respectful behaviour, even if he isnt playing up to his potential in the EPS, people still like him more than naniwa.
i personally like cloud much better than demuslim, whereas i find naniwas behaviour just terrible, even though he can be a nice guy from time to time.
the main reason most of the german community doesnt like naniwa is because of how he acts, not because he cannot speak german.
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On October 28 2010 07:44 DaVincii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 07:17 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:
3.
It's really sad how the foreigners have had such a cold welcome to the EPS. The german community never cheers for any of them, basically they are not welcome as much as the good german player. I can imagine, that this is REALLY frustrating. For instance Miou, a well known wc3 "champion" in germany, got backed up from all sites of the community after he wanted the def win vs Demuslim. Not because it looked like miou had a great advantage in the game, but for the fact that he was MIOU, the german champion (i dont wont to be disrespectful to miou, i respect him very much for his accomplishments). You know, when Teamliquid goes to korea, they get a warm welcome, get help and such. When Naniwa and cloud went to germany they got ignored and people even flamed them in the beginning. When demuslim decided to move to germany people werent that angry (because he announced that like 4 months pre date), but after a while now i have the feeling that gets ignored more and more. And when other players of the eps and the german community talk about demuslim, they talk about him like he is dschingis khan or so and tries to invade countrys and steal something. They are full of fear and jelousy somehow. I mean rivalry is a good thing but sometimes (like in this case) its getting too way over the line...
I dont know where you are getting this from. You are making assumptions and generalizations which i find wrong in so many ways i cannot even tell. In this thread alone you'll find several germans and therefor vocal parts of the german community questioning the esl's decision considering the demuslim miou game. Also look at all the events Take put together with demuslim being at his home and stuff. I've never heard someone talking down on demuslim or something like that. on the contrary i would much rather call all the stuff Take did a very warm welcome. I can only speak for myself and the people I know and from that standpoint i have to say that demuslim is absolutely loved here in germany. Not only for his play but also for the fun guy he seems to be. I'm definitely chearing for him and so are others, so please dont make such dumb generalizsations. naniwa is a whole other story, but i feel that even he has beem treated with respect by the community and by the other players up until now. Other than that you cant really blame anyone for not cheering for him after all the attitude he has shown. Nevertheless this has nothing to do with some sort of german xenophobia or something like that
Where i got this from? Irc, other forums etc. pp
Here just for you i searched some Links from the EPS quali cup where cloud and naniwa played:
http://www.esl.eu/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_last_chance/match/19438735/#
http://www.esl.eu/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/#/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/match/19388393
http://www.esl.eu/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/#/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/match/19388412/
Is this what you call a WARM welcome?
really i dont have to paste 10 more links, because this should be enough for proving my words
There is a BUTTLOAD of more evidence about the manner of the german community towards the foreigners. I dont have to paste everything down because those IRC Chats would fill a whole thread+comments... I dont come to any conclusions which say that germans or so are xenophobic ( it would be somekind of stupid because im a german as well), im just stating that this looks just sad, despite of the country's history and image.
edit i dont want to generalise german community, as there are a lot of people who supported the 3 foreigners, still there are many who acted really childish and stupidly.
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there are always haters on everything, they dont represent the majority of the community though.
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On October 28 2010 08:06 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 07:44 DaVincii wrote:On October 28 2010 07:17 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:
3.
It's really sad how the foreigners have had such a cold welcome to the EPS. The german community never cheers for any of them, basically they are not welcome as much as the good german player. I can imagine, that this is REALLY frustrating. For instance Miou, a well known wc3 "champion" in germany, got backed up from all sites of the community after he wanted the def win vs Demuslim. Not because it looked like miou had a great advantage in the game, but for the fact that he was MIOU, the german champion (i dont wont to be disrespectful to miou, i respect him very much for his accomplishments). You know, when Teamliquid goes to korea, they get a warm welcome, get help and such. When Naniwa and cloud went to germany they got ignored and people even flamed them in the beginning. When demuslim decided to move to germany people werent that angry (because he announced that like 4 months pre date), but after a while now i have the feeling that gets ignored more and more. And when other players of the eps and the german community talk about demuslim, they talk about him like he is dschingis khan or so and tries to invade countrys and steal something. They are full of fear and jelousy somehow. I mean rivalry is a good thing but sometimes (like in this case) its getting too way over the line...
I dont know where you are getting this from. You are making assumptions and generalizations which i find wrong in so many ways i cannot even tell. In this thread alone you'll find several germans and therefor vocal parts of the german community questioning the esl's decision considering the demuslim miou game. Also look at all the events Take put together with demuslim being at his home and stuff. I've never heard someone talking down on demuslim or something like that. on the contrary i would much rather call all the stuff Take did a very warm welcome. I can only speak for myself and the people I know and from that standpoint i have to say that demuslim is absolutely loved here in germany. Not only for his play but also for the fun guy he seems to be. I'm definitely chearing for him and so are others, so please dont make such dumb generalizsations. naniwa is a whole other story, but i feel that even he has beem treated with respect by the community and by the other players up until now. Other than that you cant really blame anyone for not cheering for him after all the attitude he has shown. Nevertheless this has nothing to do with some sort of german xenophobia or something like that Where i got this from? Irc, other forums etc. pp Here just for you i searched some Links from the EPS quali cup where cloud and naniwa played: http://www.esl.eu/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_last_chance/match/19438735/#http://www.esl.eu/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/#/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/match/19388393http://www.esl.eu/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/#/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/match/19388412/Is this what you call a WARM welcome? really i dont have to paste 10 more links, because this should be enough for proving my words There is a BUTTLOAD of more evidence about the manner of the german community towards the foreigners. I dont have to paste everything down because those IRC Chats would fill a whole thread+comments... I dont come to any conclusions which say that germans or so are xenophobic ( it would be somekind of stupid because im a german as well), im just stating that this looks just sad, despite of the country's history and image.
I don't know if you "actually" speak german but the "Germany" behind your name is suggesting it at least...but the comments are quite diverse. Some people bashing on him for moving to Germany and others defending him.
I Can't believe you try to paint the whole german community one color if the links YOU provide CLEARLY show how divers opinions are on this matter!
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On October 28 2010 07:17 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:It's really sad how the foreigners have had such a cold welcome to the EPS. The german community never cheers for any of them, basically they are not welcome as much as the good german player. I can imagine, that this is REALLY frustrating. For instance Miou, a well known wc3 "champion" in germany, got backed up from all sites of the community after he wanted the def win vs Demuslim. Not because it looked like miou had a great advantage in the game, but for the fact that he was MIOU, the german champion (i dont wont to be disrespectful to miou, i respect him very much for his accomplishments). You know, when Teamliquid goes to korea, they get a warm welcome, get help and such. When Naniwa and cloud went to germany they got ignored and people even flamed them in the beginning. When demuslim decided to move to germany people werent that angry (because he announced that like 4 months pre date), but after a while now i have the feeling that gets ignored more and more. And when other players of the eps and the german community talk about demuslim, they talk about him like he is dschingis khan or so and tries to invade countrys and steal something. They are full of fear and jelousy somehow. I mean rivalry is a good thing but sometimes (like in this case) its getting too way over the line...
Demuslim is one of the most favored players in the EPS. And what is the reason for that? Because he is an awesome likable guy.
Cloud has some fans too. If he doesn't get a "warm welcome" why is he saying that he loves Germany so much and likes it even more than his homecountry. He said it in a lot of interviews!
And Naniwa? Well, make a poll here who likes him and you'll find out that's not a german thing!
Can't believe you give such a wrong impression of the germany community just because there are some idiots.
Of course there was a controversy at the beginning. It was kind of new that foreigners move to Germany and play the german EPS. But now almost everybody is happy to have those guys here. They put the EPS on another level!
Another example: After Demuslim casted one event together with Take the german community went crazy about this lovely guy and wanted to see more casts with him in the future. Even though it means the casts will be english!
So please stop those generalizations!
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I hate when professionals act like douchenozzles.
GJ ESL.
gg 1baseiwa
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On October 27 2010 22:20 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +Not supised hes got such a bad attitude every time ret won him he was lol OMG ZERG IMBA ROACH IMBA I don't understand why protoss don't make more immortals to pwn roaches. Only need like 1 or 2 collosi to deal with zerglings.
ya idk maybe because lings and hydras counter immortal so easily?
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demuslim is talking so much crap lmao..
i played Call of Duty EPS.. if u want to play at another day u simply write it into the forums... voila no pps.. pls dont talk like u dont know about those rules  and dont blame admins if naniwa just was too lazy to play.. u cant reach 26 PPS that easily.
also remember, its a GERMAN league, either u learn german or u ask someone if u need help..
miou offered his help to naniwa and no u dont get an "extra wurst"(special treatment) because u moved to germany for playing in the EPS
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On October 28 2010 08:57 schisch wrote:demuslim is talking so much crap lmao.. i played Call of Duty EPS.. if u want to play at another day u simply write it into the forums... voila no pps.. pls dont talk like u dont know about those rules and dont blame admins for being lazy.. nothing else is or was naniwa u cant reach 26 PPS that easily. also remember, its a GERMAN league, either u learn german or u ask someone if u need help.. miou offered his help to naniwa..
did you not read what i wrote? jeez
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Im not surprised at this, naniwa had similar issues as a UD player in wc3.
dont know enough about the situation to comment further then this.
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On October 28 2010 08:06 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 07:44 DaVincii wrote:On October 28 2010 07:17 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:
3.
It's really sad how the foreigners have had such a cold welcome to the EPS. The german community never cheers for any of them, basically they are not welcome as much as the good german player. I can imagine, that this is REALLY frustrating. For instance Miou, a well known wc3 "champion" in germany, got backed up from all sites of the community after he wanted the def win vs Demuslim. Not because it looked like miou had a great advantage in the game, but for the fact that he was MIOU, the german champion (i dont wont to be disrespectful to miou, i respect him very much for his accomplishments). You know, when Teamliquid goes to korea, they get a warm welcome, get help and such. When Naniwa and cloud went to germany they got ignored and people even flamed them in the beginning. When demuslim decided to move to germany people werent that angry (because he announced that like 4 months pre date), but after a while now i have the feeling that gets ignored more and more. And when other players of the eps and the german community talk about demuslim, they talk about him like he is dschingis khan or so and tries to invade countrys and steal something. They are full of fear and jelousy somehow. I mean rivalry is a good thing but sometimes (like in this case) its getting too way over the line...
I dont know where you are getting this from. You are making assumptions and generalizations which i find wrong in so many ways i cannot even tell. In this thread alone you'll find several germans and therefor vocal parts of the german community questioning the esl's decision considering the demuslim miou game. Also look at all the events Take put together with demuslim being at his home and stuff. I've never heard someone talking down on demuslim or something like that. on the contrary i would much rather call all the stuff Take did a very warm welcome. I can only speak for myself and the people I know and from that standpoint i have to say that demuslim is absolutely loved here in germany. Not only for his play but also for the fun guy he seems to be. I'm definitely chearing for him and so are others, so please dont make such dumb generalizsations. naniwa is a whole other story, but i feel that even he has beem treated with respect by the community and by the other players up until now. Other than that you cant really blame anyone for not cheering for him after all the attitude he has shown. Nevertheless this has nothing to do with some sort of german xenophobia or something like that Where i got this from? Irc, other forums etc. pp Here just for you i searched some Links from the EPS quali cup where cloud and naniwa played: http://www.esl.eu/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_last_chance/match/19438735/#http://www.esl.eu/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/#/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/match/19388393http://www.esl.eu/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/#/de/sc2/1on1/eps_quali_cup_5/match/19388412/Is this what you call a WARM welcome? really i dont have to paste 10 more links, because this should be enough for proving my words There is a BUTTLOAD of more evidence about the manner of the german community towards the foreigners. I dont have to paste everything down because those IRC Chats would fill a whole thread+comments... I dont come to any conclusions which say that germans or so are xenophobic ( it would be somekind of stupid because im a german as well), im just stating that this looks just sad, despite of the country's history and image. edit i dont want to generalise german community, as there are a lot of people who supported the 3 foreigners, still there are many who acted really childish and stupidly.
Seriously, there are so many idiots posting their shit on the esl page it isn't even funny. Whether there are foreigners playing or not. You got these stupid comments everytime... Many of them cant even write properly... If it's abot a counterstrike match, a wc3 match, a starcraft match; it doesn't matter at all! The level of behaviour is often very low.
BUT fortunately that doesn't reflect the german community in general (as you said already). There are so many scene sites on which behaviour is much better. Of course there are many comments on the esl page which aren't stupid but i found that there are the most insulting and the most stupid comments.
I'd rather say it's another esl failure to not delete scum like that!
They should use some mods who take care of whats going on...
Naniwa is just a douchebag from what i've heard. No wonder that he isn't popular.
About Demuslim i have to say that he's really a nice guy. Along with hasu0bs he's my favourite to win the tournament just because these are very polite and mannered players. I really dont know what the complaints about him aim to achieve
And i think i'm not the only one who thinks like that. Miou should've got him that rematch but i think he wanted the win as he was the underdog! Just my oppinion.
To sum it up: It's good that the esl is strict but they're doing mistakes here and there especially not removing those stupid comments. Every other good scene site has its rules too and they take care that the level of behaviour doesn't fall too much
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wow you have to be a real moron to get kicked out a tourny requiring 30pts of pentalties, with 1pt per minor and 10 per major... majors being not uploading replays/showing up to matches?..(unsure of exact rule designations)...
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Probably EPS rules are a bit too strict but they really want to keep everything as professional as possible. I'm sad Naniwa got kicked but if he paid more attention to his pps and situation this wouldn't have happened.
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On October 27 2010 22:43 attackfighter wrote:
that system seems really unprofessional, 75% of the players have penatly points
I think it's a way for them to just save some money instead of to enforce good rules. although I've never been a fan of these tiny 'impromptu' tournament things anyways. rather have more proffesional ones like GSL, I don't even see how this "EPS" thing is even alive.
User was warned for this post
they dont save money. the money not given to the player who got too many PPs is spread amongst the other finalists.
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sad for nani, screw the haters
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From the list of penalties he didn't seem to care to be there anyway. You're late or don't show up to work too often you get axed.
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the rules seem to be kinda strict, but for a tournament of that scale you can't just have some random wishy-washy rules...
and eventhough it seems they encountered problems both DeMusliM and ClouD managed to stay at 5minor PPs (that's less than some of the German players) whereas naniwa went way over board with 25minor and 1 major PP
hell.. cloud even lives together with him, doesn't he?
anyway, he might not be the most pleasant person to deal with but the he sure was one of the strongest players in the EPS...
and third parties like hasu got kinda screwed by that too as we see
On October 28 2010 16:59 zTz wrote:
wow you have to be a real moron to get kicked out a tourny requiring 30pts of pentalties, with 1pt per minor and 10 per major... majors being not uploading replays/showing up to matches?..(unsure of exact rule designations)...
not uploading a replay seems to give 9minor pps from what i can tell by looking at naniwas ESL profile.
the major one was awarded for not showing to a match at all it seems
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Germany1287 Posts
On October 28 2010 02:59 Seide wrote:
These kind of thoughts is exactly why "BW has always been the red-headed step-child compared to the FPS games in the ESL". You are part of the problem, show soem support for your scene if you want it to grow.
Why would I? I must be drunk and mad to support a system that is obviously flawed to the bone.
It's safe to say I have done my fair bit for my local community, helping and organising in both online and offline events and -when I had more time- being admin in a big German team league, see next quote on that. Just look at the games played, it is not the 1v1/2v2 ESL, but those leagues that are flourishing in our region again, the old-dignified sk.de and the successor to the bwcl, the sc2cl. They may not be professional oriented (well maybe the top division of sc2cl), but that is what the local community wants. For the high-profile players, there will be a replacement, eventually.
I.e. 4players.de is already pushing out 1.100€ in prize money per week. EPS players are earning money there already, including the one I will quote next:
On October 28 2010 08:05 DarKFoRcE wrote:
This is such a bullshit, the _german_ EPS is not an international league, it is, as the name says, a german league, if someone moves to germany in order to participate, he gets the exactly same treatment as everyone else. none of the foreigners was treated any worse by admins than the german players. what you want is that the foreigners get favored by the admins, you expect them to invest alot of time into translating the rules and explaining it to them personally, but this is completely unreasonable, as all the germans have to find and read the rules themselves aswell. it might sound harsh, but its not the admins fault that they dont speak german.
As I already mentioned, I've been admin in a different league some time ago. But I had what the ESL lacks: Passion. Passion for the game, for the competition, for the players, for the -thing-.
When problems arose, I better made damn sure I fixed it. Because I wanted the thing to work, and work well. International players? Hell, that's just one of the things I was there for. Approaching players, asking what is wrong and -fixing- things, and, mind you, there is always a way to fix things. Expecting the admins to invest time into translating is not "completely unreasonable", it is the way it is supposed to be. If I need to be the nanny for a player or a whole team, then I am the nanny. If I was capable of that, then why not the ESL, which even pays their admins?
A football referee wouldn't be a football referee if he had no interest in football, and with an SC2 admin not having interest in SC2 but only in their payment, the ESL seems to fall into a daily routine, having a thick rulebook that they hope will cover for them, lacking interest in the actual thing, which simply makes them unqualified for a professional gaming league.
No, I don't know it, but I assume the admins are getting paid, and paid well. Why? Because the ESL entitles and promotes itself as the highest-standard and biggest online league there is, and it belongs to Turtle Entertainment GmbH, which is a frikkin multimillion € company. If the admins are getting paid, then they might not be doing their job. If I am mistaken and they are not getting paid,
then, additionally, they are downright stupid, which makes the ESL look even more unqualified.
I am sorry that this sounds very rude, but there is no way to skirt around this for me now, some things just have to be said.
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On October 28 2010 18:12 FliedLice wrote:
not uploading a replay seems to give 9minor pps from what i can tell by looking at naniwas ESL profile.
the major one was awarded for not showing to a match at all it seems
not uploading a replay gives 3 penalty points each... which is quite funny. If you win 2:0 and don't upload the replays you get 6 pps if you win 2:1 you get 9 pps. Rules also state that both players get the penalty points if no replays are uploaded after 6 hours (which didn't happen, just Naniwa got them).
Strangely enough you only get 1 penalty point per missing replay in the Dawn of War EPS. Maybe its because you have to zip the replays there and they account for the higher effort players have to do with uploading, I can see no other reason to punish the same mistake differently just because the game has a different name.
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Well I don`t think ESL is the one to blame when even the other foreigners are doing fine with penalty points. Cloud who shares the same flat with Nani has like 5pp. If I´m not totally mistaken, Cloud already urged Naniwa to be more attentive with writing match statements etc. but he simply refused to listen. And even apart from those aspects Naniwa surely wasn`t the most pleasant person as he used to insult many players in his statements, made lame excuses in games and so forth.
What surprises me though is the inactivity of the mym management. They should have be more cautious about the whole situation. Surprisingly they even avoided to release a statement on the whole issue which raises some question about the organisation in general. I mean when they hired Naniwa they were obviously aware of his past (a few weeks before joining mym he was forced out of mTw due to manner issues and he was famous for the same thing in wc3).So if they still had faith in him they should know that they`d need to take care of him. 2 months ago there was also the incident with Sunny the former team manager and CellaWerra and the lineup also seems quite "outdated".
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EPT
