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McFoo
United Kingdom180 Posts
On October 06 2010 08:04 Mania[K]al wrote: Planetary Fort should be removed. Along with Broodlords shooting broodlings and zerg bases exploding into them. + Sentries making forcefields and marines having guns. ^^ | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
u can just repair them too quickly and the scvs are too hard to target sometimes (which is the really stupid part) | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
I think perhaps adjusting simple things like the repair coefficient and reducing or removing splash damage would make a massive difference. I like the PF. I think it's a good dynamic to decide between OCs and PFs. I do, however, think it makes T too mindless on expo defense, and too strong vs harass. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
Since zerg usually has +20-30 drones, a pf is safe but at the same time already behind (unless its on a gold). Same vs P, since p has such a ridiculous production output and has more workers, going a pf is still economically disadvantageous, but it is safe. And dealing with repaired pf is all about targeting the scvs, (speed banelings, storm, siege tanks, ultralisks, infestors, cloaked harassment, or just drops in general which ignore the pf). By doing this you have punished the terran for making a pf, because it has given him no benefit whatsoever. | ||
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PBJ
United States141 Posts
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danson
United States689 Posts
On October 06 2010 06:51 ShadowReaver wrote: Uggh, have you even played the single player campaign? Shrike Turret, Perdition Turret, Automated Refinery, Hive mind emulator, list goes on and on... to clarify. Obviously not all units from the single player >>> muytli player, but ALL MUTLIPLAYER UNITS are from the single player campaign, so making a post that disses the PF just because it showed up in single is completely retarded. thors were in SP, mauraders were in SP, there were also marines and roaches and banelings. ... | ||
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Nobu
Spain550 Posts
Sorry for a bit of QQ, but in my opinion, PF is very very strong, and T don't need yet another way to defend from everything >_< P.S: I've played against a guy that just made PF in all his expos so I'm a bit mad about them | ||
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Nokeboy
United States1009 Posts
On October 06 2010 06:36 danson wrote: QQing noob, if I have to choose one. this has been discussed to death, and you answered your own question. ITs there to compensate for lack of T mobility in late game. If you go all bio, you die. ultras still > pfs, even after nerf. collosi and broods outrage. they arent invincible. also. just go kill his natrual if he makes a PF and 6 turrets at his third. The amount of ultras needed to take a massively repaired PF is not really worth it unless you are already in a winning position, considering they more than likely have a Oribital CC sitting around doing nothing they can replace it with | ||
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tacrats
476 Posts
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kawazu
United States111 Posts
Terran and Toss have plenty of ways to deal with it, but early game zerg can't do anything about it because of their very short range until T2. Their best early counter is banelings, but they are expensive and are useless against the mech units that the scvs are repairing. Same goes for repairing mech units actually. The scvs get in the way of the zerg units, who won't attack them unless manually told to attack each one. It makes for a very obnoxious all in push against zerg... | ||
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Sylvr
United States524 Posts
I always like trying to look at things from a different angle, and the angle that sticks out in this case is: It's not the PF that you want to take out, it's the opponent's income that the PF is helping to protect. Sure, taking out the base entirely is preferable, but if it's gonna cost you half of your army, then it's obviously not worth it. When I think of nullifying a PF as a Zerg, the idea that comes to mind is a few Roaches and ~4 Banelings. Roaches tank the PF for a few hits while the Banes go in and take out the workers. It's not a huge commitment, and it may very well even pay for itself even in the event that you lose all of it. If you can force the T to start mass repairing (bring more than a few Roaches), then that just clumps the SCVs up for the Banelings to be super effective. Once the damage is done, you pull back. If you managed to hit it while the opponent's army is out position (good scouting), then you should come out ahead in the exchange. Infesters can be utilized for similar/superior results. As a Protoss, I'm thinking Sentries. Force Field around the back half of the PF so the SCVs can't reach it (similar to what we saw a couple players do to Bunkers in GSL), and use a decent number of Stalkers to take it down. I don't think anyone is complaining about the PF without the mass repair, so if you disable that part of the combo, it should be ok right? Alternately, of course, is the High Templar, which should go without saying. These are just my opinions, of course. I realize that the situation doesn't always allow for these sorts of tactics, but I'm just trying to point out the fundamental goal of assaulting a base, PF or not. Consider also that the T isn't likely to stop sending SCVs to a PF base, so it could serve as a continuous harass target, almost like bait. PFs as static defense might be a different issue altogether, but then, if they aren't at a mineral line already, then that means the T is either not intending to repair it, should it come under attack, or is going to have to commit SCVs away from mining, which IMO nullifies the advantages. | ||
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Reason.SC2
Canada1047 Posts
On October 06 2010 08:24 danson wrote: to clarify. Obviously not all units from the single player >>> muytli player, but ALL MUTLIPLAYER UNITS are from the single player campaign, so making a post that disses the PF just because it showed up in single is completely retarded. thors were in SP, mauraders were in SP, there were also marines and roaches and banelings. ... You're either retarted or just not trying very hard to comprehend the message. The post is not "PF is in campaign therefore PF shouldn't be in multiplayer" The post is opening a debate about the role of the PF by explaining an opinion: that a racial advantage given to Terran by the PF, in light of other existing racial advantages they enjoy, is unwarranted. That it seems like a unit or idea that slipped into the multiplayer from the single player "lets think up of cool shit to put in the game session" with 'coolness factor' taking priority over balance is a complete conjecture and tangential to the main point of this thread. | ||
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ExileStrife
United States170 Posts
If repairing workers had the highest priority, there wouldn't be any problem. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
protoss is able to warp in units if there are couple of pylons to defend it. zerg has its mobility and well, terran has nothing. stim mm i guess? | ||
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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
On October 06 2010 08:58 jinorazi wrote: correct me if i'm wrong but i kinda see it as a balance. protoss is able to warp in units if there are couple of pylons to defend it. zerg has its mobility and well, terran has nothing. stim mm i guess? Mobility doesnt matter when 4 stimmed marauders takes down a hatch in 10 sec. | ||
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shmoo
United States139 Posts
One thing to keep in mind is that you do not have to kill the PF, but you can kill the workers, which is quite doable as protoss with storm. As zerg, the best thing to do is just baneling bust the PF. You can kill a lot of scvs and the PF itself quite easily with a group of banelings. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
EDIT: to be more clear...the PF takes zero supply, mules take zero supply, but for a zerg/protoss opponent to be on the same foot economically their armies have to be 20+ supply smaller due to worker count. And...without a doubt, Terran units are the most supply-effective (repair) | ||
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MK4512
Canada938 Posts
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ProwlerSC
Canada18 Posts
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