EPT[D] The Planetary Fortress - Page 10
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
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Zvendetta
United States321 Posts
There SUICIDAL units, the way they work is that they WILL leave a gaping whole in this magical number people think needs to be perfectly even to be balanced. Ignore the actual resources required to get 20 banelings and 1 PF- the thing is that 20 units (especially for zerg) can be remade A LOT faster than an expansion, plus the PF morph. The moment you snipe out the expansion thats a HUGE hit to economy- Sure, it may even cost you 1000 minerals and gas, but thats resources well spent! Killing an expansion means there is one less base he is mining off of, so the sheer amount of time where SCV's have no place to saturate can be well equal, if not greater, to the minerals and gas you just spent, mean while giving you the time to secure an expo of you're own. Note that banelings can snipe an OC as well- grab an overseer and plant a contaminate on it to keep it from lifting off. I've seen games where even though there were scv's starting to repair PF/OC's the damage of the 20+blings was too much too fast. | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
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smurfzg
Sweden8 Posts
I don't see why terran needs to be able to mass repair their walls either, they should be forced to make some marines to defend it instead. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
On October 08 2010 05:19 Zvendetta wrote: I don't understand what the complaint is about banelings and supply cost- There SUICIDAL units, the way they work is that they WILL leave a gaping whole in this magical number people think needs to be perfectly even to be balanced. Ignore the actual resources required to get 20 banelings and 1 PF- the thing is that 20 units (especially for zerg) can be remade A LOT faster than an expansion, plus the PF morph. The moment you snipe out the expansion thats a HUGE hit to economy- Sure, it may even cost you 1000 minerals and gas, but thats resources well spent! Killing an expansion means there is one less base he is mining off of, so the sheer amount of time where SCV's have no place to saturate can be well equal, if not greater, to the minerals and gas you just spent, mean while giving you the time to secure an expo of you're own. Note that banelings can snipe an OC as well- grab an overseer and plant a contaminate on it to keep it from lifting off. I've seen games where even though there were scv's starting to repair PF/OC's the damage of the 20+blings was too much too fast. Well there is also the fact that zerg defenses are pretty weak in their own right. Getting the 30+ banelings required to take out a planetary fortress guarded by a single tank isnt that hard. But then the terran can still just attack you, so you need to have an army big enough to stop the terran push, as well as 30 banelings, and also enough bases and drones to actually be ahead on economy after blowing up the planetary fortress to be ahead at all after doing something like that. If you can afford to have an army big enough to take on the full terran army, and at the same time have 1500 more minerals, and 750 more gas to spare, along with being on at least the same number of bases and workers as the terran, then yeah, you can baneling his planetary fortress, and be ahead. If you are greatly ahead, then a planetary fortress isnt an issue. If the game is kind of even, and the terran decides to planetary at the gold with a siege tank and a couple of turrets, you are screwed. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
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DaZe
Sweden2111 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On October 08 2010 09:49 DaZe wrote: lol how can ppl complain about scvs repairing when they have 40 hp and everyone agrees on PF being a bitch on the second expansion. By that time both zerg and protoss should have either banelings/muta or colo/storm. If you can agree on that there shouldnt be any problem killing the repairing scvs without losing too much, and if that's too hard I believe SC2 wont make it in the long run... You are suggesting I should make units to counter workers. Basically I have to make splash units to compensate for bad AI. Something is wrong. Do you really think that's the way it should work? | ||
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Zvendetta
United States321 Posts
zerg gets to have hive tech. BL's would lay waste, or ultras will just roflstomp on the PF. I mean, the time to bling attack the PF is when his army is way out of position, not as he places his entire army on it. When he does that, zerg needs end game tech at that point to defeat it. | ||
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Slago
Canada726 Posts
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Theon
United States19 Posts
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DaemonX
545 Posts
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zekie
Canada380 Posts
On October 08 2010 22:00 DaemonX wrote: Guys...make 18 BL and no more PF. It's not that hard. (1100 zerg) sure doesn't scound that cost effective though. since they'll probably just rebuild it right away. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On October 08 2010 22:00 DaemonX wrote: Guys...make 18 BL and no more PF. It's not that hard. (1100 zerg) Hero Z right here. I don't think I've ever had 18 BL alive at the same time in any 1v1 game. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
concerning TvP: neither PF itself nor marauder-drop itself would be problematic; but one race having BOTH makes many matches seem really retarded; 2 dropships full of marauders --> gg nexus; fullblown counter-attack on a PF-expo --> epic fail for protoss then again this "would" be ok, if it "would" even out any other disadvantage terran "had" in the field; but that again isn't the case, terran does just fine on the open field; I don't want this to be seen as a QQ, but just thinking about this I don't see the logic behind it - why you would give one race the best drop-sniping ability AND the best defending-ability | ||
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
Firstly, banelings are bad against buildings like the Planetary Fortress. Don't do it. You'll lose a clutch of them running up to it since it does splash, and it takes 20 banelings to take it down. The fortress cost 550/150 and 20 banelings will run you 1500 minerals and 500 gas. BAD trade. The power of banelings against buildings is that they deal their damage very quickly, which means you can break down a depot and then run in with your zerglings, and that initial inefficiency at killing the depot is justified by how incredibly efficient zerglings are in close quarters. The best way to kill fortresses are to besiege them, and not assault them directly. Although if you really must assault them then using ultras or mutalisks is best. For Protoss the choices are obvious- the Void Ray is already a siege unit, and if for some reason that won't work then immortals, or even zealots and stalkers do alright. Still, besiege first. Stake out the area around them, pick off their workers. Without any workers to repair that PF is not really that strong. Without towers to defend it a single air unit will take it down. I agree that the AI is dumb. It should probably auto-target SCV's over planetary fortresses. But still, the intent of the PF is to make it ineffective to just charge in and assault it. It takes longer to bring down a PF than an undefended base. | ||
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GreatFall
United States1061 Posts
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Bosko
United States155 Posts
On October 06 2010 06:27 Reason.SC2 wrote: This is certainly not a QQ thread. Ahhh! You almost fooled me with that sentence. | ||
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Dagon
Romania264 Posts
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shynee
Canada180 Posts
On October 06 2010 06:55 Keitzer wrote: Ya. When people say stuff about "Oh, terran is moving with his immobile army.." It just doesn't seem "immobile" when it took 10 seconds to move across map. Ofc they're not speedlings or mutas... but compared to the rest of a terran army (combined with map size) it's not really THAT immobile Bio is not immobile... Tanks/Thors are. Especially since you can fake the Terran player out every 2 seconds, making him leap frog the entire map.. siege, unsiege, siege, unsiege. And lets not get started with Thors. | ||
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