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On September 27 2010 03:03 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 19:28 MoNoNauT wrote:On September 26 2010 19:04 Eury wrote:On September 26 2010 16:33 john0507 wrote:
Just curious, is this the guy that Tastetosis said they were taking lessons at 300$ an hour from?
If that's true than hell yeah that is money well spent. Cos this guy seems to really really really know what he's talking about. That's what we call "a joke". The money that is, I'm sure Tasteless is getting some free lessons from the official GOM observer, whoever that is. What I can't understand though is why Tastosis don't just follow the Korean observer. When I say follow, I mean not even having an actual computer there... just a screen that shows exactly what the observer is seeing, so you still get the cursor and you don't get jittery camera movement. The Koreans get a dedicated observer, and from what I understand it's much easier for the casters to stay focused that way... why shouldn't Tastosis? Interaction between observer and commentator is too important. What they really need is their own observer who understands English.
Its not that Tasteless does a bad job of observing, its the fact that both of them are commentating at the same time which affects the observing. I'm quite confident that if Tasteless did not talk at all and only focused on the game he could observe flawlessly. However he is commentating and that is obviously distracting enough that he can't be 100% on-top of every little thing happening in the game - only the major ones. Quite often we see him missing small drops and such, that isn't because he doesn't know what to look for or how to observe, but that he is pre-occupied with commentary.
Tyler's idea here is probably the most accurate one. Tastosis should cast, and another third person (maybe an English-speaking Korean observer) does the observing. Now the observer wouldn't be forced to remain silent the entire cast, but the bulk of the casting would be done by Tastosis. If you look at the Korean commentary desk that can be seen sometimes there is always three people at it. My guess is one is a dedicated observer who only voices opinions occasionally.
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On September 27 2010 02:57 Madkipz wrote:
Match fixing? With this kind of pricepool waiting for the winner who would want to do that?
When i saw the game on live my mind was blown. As in i could not possibly concieve that A terran.
Oh wait. THE Possibly BEST TERRAN player IN THE WORLD would play on kulas ravine and proceed to throw away every advantage this map in particular outright hands to him. If i played terran i would watch that game in particular just to remind myself what not to do ;/
Cool does deserve to go on to the round of 8, he earned it with skill. Stuff like this is good, thats what makes sc2 interesting. Its a nice upset and i get to see more zerg in the round of 8.
If anything, it just proved that terrans that don't abuse broken maps can't win against equal skilled Z/P =/
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lol thats what we got in sc2 atm. terran loose a match to zerg and we need analysis to shut the match-fixing suspitions
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On September 27 2010 04:16 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 02:57 Madkipz wrote:
Match fixing? With this kind of pricepool waiting for the winner who would want to do that?
When i saw the game on live my mind was blown. As in i could not possibly concieve that A terran.
Oh wait. THE Possibly BEST TERRAN player IN THE WORLD would play on kulas ravine and proceed to throw away every advantage this map in particular outright hands to him. If i played terran i would watch that game in particular just to remind myself what not to do ;/
Cool does deserve to go on to the round of 8, he earned it with skill. Stuff like this is good, thats what makes sc2 interesting. Its a nice upset and i get to see more zerg in the round of 8.
If anything, it just proved that terrans that don't abuse broken maps can't win against equal skilled Z/P =/
Well to be fair to oGsTop , pre 1.1 patch (without the current bug) the end game wouldn't be so one sided , the fact that those Ultras ran through those PFs so so easily and the 20+ scvs there had to run, if it they were able to repair the PF the result at least wouldn't had been a one sided ending, but prolly a longer match overall.
Note that even Blizzard themselves said that this is a bug , Ultra should NOT deal splash dmg hitting buildings. So in your case of saying terrans abusing broken maps , zerg here just plain abused a blatant bug.
Tho I am happy that Cool got through to the last 8 , and most prolly will be the last zerg left.
Terrans already have other representatives going through (which Imo are at least on par, if not simply better than oGsTop).
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TOPs entire thor army was gone before Cool ever reached the fortresses, and he had 6+ ultra left, and full saturation on at least 3 bases. It was over.
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On September 27 2010 04:41 Fa1nT wrote:
TOPs entire thor army was gone before Cool ever reached the fortresses, and he had 6+ ultra left, and full saturation on at least 3 bases. It was over.
I'm saying Top was leading at that point , but the 5 ultras i think the number was , doesn't kill a PF , not even close actually.
Terran 2 saturated base with Mules isn't that far behind the zerg.
Cool would've still be leading , but the game would've dragged out quite a while longer than it did.
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On September 27 2010 04:37 john0507 wrote:Note that even Blizzard themselves said that this is a bug , Ultra should NOT deal splash dmg hitting buildings. So in your case of saying terrans abusing broken maps , zerg here just plain abused a blatant bug.
Actually ultras ARE supposed to be cleaving buildings now to kill repairing SCVS, except not 6 range long due to the command centers being so large. Once it's fixed the cleave will most likely be closer to the ultras or on one side and even then, 5 ultras is enough to cover an entire area around CC so this is really not abusing a single thing.
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On September 27 2010 05:04 john0507 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 04:41 Fa1nT wrote:
TOPs entire thor army was gone before Cool ever reached the fortresses, and he had 6+ ultra left, and full saturation on at least 3 bases. It was over. I'm saying Top was leading at that point , but the 5 ultras i think the number was , doesn't kill a PF , not even close actually. Terran 2 saturated base with Mules isn't that far behind the zerg. Cool would've still be leading , but the game would've dragged out quite a while longer than it did.
You're not making any sense. Neither was TOP leading, nor do 5 ultras lose to a PF. Besides, Cool kept TOP busy nonstop. (Have you actually watched the game?!)
This series was definitely the most awesome series of the entire GSL, and I watched pretty much all of it. The closest game, the most amazing control... Cool played Zerg on the highest level I have ever seen a Zerg play. Check won some ZvT with weird builds and lol moments (and nice skills of course), but Cool showed genuine game sense in his games 1+3. Game 1 was just perfectly executed and he won a major gamble in game 3. Nothing strange about that imo.
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Ultra bug had me ROFLing in these matches.
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On September 26 2010 12:52 Fa1nT wrote:Is this supposed to be sarcastic? Zerg won, when he was a mile behind, on a bad map, in bad position, vs one of, if not the best terran player in the world. Yeah.
I find it funny that probably no-one had ever heard of oGsTOP before and when Tastosis mentioned he was sort of the best in the oGs inhouse rankings everyone suddenly claims he's the best Terran in the world, which he isn't.
If you had read the analysis you would know Zerg wasn't as far behind as seemed through the standard casting. The map itself wasn't so bad since TOP wasn't "abusing" it as some Terrans will. So how was Cool in a bad position?
Claiming it was match-fixing is ridiculous. Players win because they did things better than their opponent. Calling every recovery in games/ sports etc. matchfixing is just silly.
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On September 27 2010 05:25 steamrice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 04:37 john0507 wrote:Note that even Blizzard themselves said that this is a bug , Ultra should NOT deal splash dmg hitting buildings. So in your case of saying terrans abusing broken maps , zerg here just plain abused a blatant bug. Actually ultras ARE supposed to be cleaving buildings now to kill repairing SCVS, except not 6 range long due to the command centers being so large. Once it's fixed the cleave will most likely be closer to the ultras or on one side and even then, 5 ultras is enough to cover an entire area around CC so this is really not abusing a single thing.
This, the bug is just the AoE increasing with target size. Once the cleave is fixed 5-6 ultras will still ruin a PF and the scvs if they try to repair. On the other hand 1-2 ultras won't instantly kill all the scvs anymore.
I do not think Cool won because of the bug though. By the point it occurred he was up 2-3 bases and had a ton of ultras against a Terran player who just spammed thors and got them surrounded several times. Ultras are supposed to wreck stacked armor with a surround, they are supposed to destroy PFs and Cool had not only an amazing number of them (due to outmacroing his opponent) but controlled them very well (including drops).
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Wow the Korean dude is SMART :O
I actually watched this game live at the GSL, it was amazing.
Tasteless and Artosis, you guys are classy, awesome people as well. Awesome experience.
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On September 27 2010 05:04 john0507 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 04:41 Fa1nT wrote:
TOPs entire thor army was gone before Cool ever reached the fortresses, and he had 6+ ultra left, and full saturation on at least 3 bases. It was over. I'm saying Top was leading at that point , but the 5 ultras i think the number was , doesn't kill a PF , not even close actually. Terran 2 saturated base with Mules isn't that far behind the zerg. Cool would've still be leading , but the game would've dragged out quite a while longer than it did.
Why shouldn't 5 ultras, 1500/1000/30 worth of units, not kill a PF? If you honestly believe that this is true, then you have some terrible bias for terrans.
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On September 27 2010 04:37 john0507 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 04:16 Fa1nT wrote:On September 27 2010 02:57 Madkipz wrote:
Match fixing? With this kind of pricepool waiting for the winner who would want to do that?
When i saw the game on live my mind was blown. As in i could not possibly concieve that A terran.
Oh wait. THE Possibly BEST TERRAN player IN THE WORLD would play on kulas ravine and proceed to throw away every advantage this map in particular outright hands to him. If i played terran i would watch that game in particular just to remind myself what not to do ;/
Cool does deserve to go on to the round of 8, he earned it with skill. Stuff like this is good, thats what makes sc2 interesting. Its a nice upset and i get to see more zerg in the round of 8.
If anything, it just proved that terrans that don't abuse broken maps can't win against equal skilled Z/P =/ Well to be fair to oGsTop , pre 1.1 patch (without the current bug) the end game wouldn't be so one sided , the fact that those Ultras ran through those PFs so so easily and the 20+ scvs there had to run, if it they were able to repair the PF the result at least wouldn't had been a one sided ending, but prolly a longer match overall. Note that even Blizzard themselves said that this is a bug , Ultra should NOT deal splash dmg hitting buildings. So in your case of saying terrans abusing broken maps , zerg here just plain abused a blatant bug. Tho I am happy that Cool got through to the last 8 , and most prolly will be the last zerg left. Terrans already have other representatives going through (which Imo are at least on par, if not simply better than oGsTop).
Prepatch the Ultras would have done much more damage to the Thors. This would have more than offset the lack of splash on the planetary fortress. Read the patch notes if you are going to comment on them.
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On September 27 2010 08:33 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 12:52 Fa1nT wrote:On September 26 2010 12:25 mierin wrote:
Zerg won?? OMGmatchfixing Is this supposed to be sarcastic? Zerg won, when he was a mile behind, on a bad map, in bad position, vs one of, if not the best terran player in the world. Yeah. I find it funny that probably no-one had ever heard of oGsTOP before and when Tastosis mentioned he was sort of the best in the oGs inhouse rankings everyone suddenly claims he's the best Terran in the world, which he isn't. If you had read the analysis you would know Zerg wasn't as far behind as seemed through the standard casting. The map itself wasn't so bad since TOP wasn't "abusing" it as some Terrans will. So how was Cool in a bad position? Claiming it was match-fixing is ridiculous. Players win because they did things better than their opponent. Calling every recovery in games/ sports etc. matchfixing is just silly.
Yea you are right but when the guy was presented to me by commentators as a very good player you kind of expect something that isnt hellion into failbanshee into mass thor.
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I was kinda doubtful after watching the game, but this analysis seems to be very well done. Great game by Cool for sure.
About the Ultra "bug"... As the OP's translation said, There were enough Ultras in that game and Cool had enough of an economical advantage where it wouldn't have mattered if the Ultras had the range "bug" or not.
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that game looks soooo one sided once the ultras were out XD
but b4 that neither top nor cool were making that many units. so happens cool was better at harassment. Like the commentator said. he was just better at playing mind games. The game totally looks legit to me.
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I almost didn't mention this, but when I watched this game I felt at random that the game might be rigged. Nothing specific, just a feeling. I brushed it aside quite quickly but at the same time... No other game gave me that vibe... I guess i am saying I understand it has been brought up. On the other hand the other games was fine etc so yeah.
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On September 27 2010 06:35 DooMDash wrote:
Ultra bug had me ROFLing in these matches.
Why? It came into play once, when it splashed a couple of marines.
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Good analysis ?
He must have miss the part hat top massed thors vs ultras without bothering to change tactics like ever ... twice ...
Or the point whereas cool has 0 army and top didnt atack
Or when cool had 92 drones and 2 rwarrens and 2 baneling nests and so many other things.
ps after tester cool and intotheR left ogs ensnare is by far the best player over there terms of results top isnt even close enough and the gsl games proves this.
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EPT
