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Chae Jung Won, a commentator at GSL recently spoke regarding game #3 between Fruitseller and oGsTop.
I decided to translate this because many people were being suspicious of a match-fixing between Fruitseller and oGsTop. (this may be more so in Korean communities).
Hopefully this wil settle any disputes regarding that game.
Enjoy!
Original post:
http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?m=community&msgid=896&c=all&p=1
(Korean website)
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There are numerous debates regarding yesterday's match between Fruitseller and oGsTop.
First people are talking about the ultralisk bug. Even though Fruitseller used ultralisk to win game 1 and 3, anyone who has been with the starcraft scene for a while would know that Fruitseller could not lose with that many ultralisks, regardless of the bug. Even though there were a lot of thors, 250mm cannon cannot stun ultralisks and were much smaller in number.
Another argument is that the match was fixed by the 2 progamers. As someone who has been with Esports for 10 years and watched it grow, it pains me to see people watch an epic come-back game and immediately theorize that the match must have been fixed. If you saw Fruitseller being ecstatic with joy after the match or oGsTop coming out of his booth covered with sweat, one could not argue that it was a fixed match.
Now I'll go over game 3 piece by piece. I realized that I had overlooked many finer points when I watched replay of the game. We'll see how the game seemed to have turned around all-of-a-sudden.
Simply put, Zerg turned the game around much earlier than what we think.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4OSea.jpg)
This is when 2 helions are coming out of a factory with reactor add on. It's 4:53 according to the in-game clock just above minimap.
At this point, Fruitseller had his roach warren 80% complete.
More importantly, he did gas rush against terran.
(I'll explain further in bottom, but this was the key move of the game)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/1eDRr.jpg)
This shows oGsTop constructing a command center after killing 7 drones with 4 helions.
Fruitseller's gas rush is still there. In other words, Terran's playing on 1 gas.
The textbook playstyle would have had oGsTop make 2 starports making cloacked banshee following 4 helion push to finish the game. This is a strat that has very high win ratio in kulas ravine.
Zerg has no choice but to stop 4 helion rush with roach, and the zerg who spent more than 100 gas on roach is gonna be late getting laire upgrade. With late laire upgrade, there is no way to stop the cloaked banshee when it comes.
However with the gas rush oGsTop could not build 2 starports and while he has no gas, he has a surplus of 400 minerals.
At this point, he has to choose between the two:
1. Construct a command center and prepare for a management game
2. Construct 2-3 barracks and do a timed push
oGsTop decides to go for management game and builds a command center.
In my opinion, this was his mistake.
(One could argue why he has to wait 400 minerals before building barracks instead of making 'em one at a time. However if you take a look at the game, Terran cannot build more barracks if he has no assurance that 4 helion push is going to deliver a big hit to Zerg. As an example, many would've seen situations where zerg makes drones instead of reinforcements when he got into your base with zergling rush. This is because the zerg was not sure of the rush's effectiveness. If terran knew that 4 helion rush was gonna do big damage, building barrack is the correct choice. However most players tend to assess the situation before deciding their next move. At that point, oGsTop already had more than 400 minerals.)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/9Prr5.jpg)
Now Fruitseller is pushing with 4 roaches following the helion rush.
Even though oGsTop did a successful harassment, he doesn't have enough gas and has next to no units as he is making a command center.
He only has helions and 1 marine to fend off roaches. That of course isn't enough units to stop roaches. The roaches were already turning the corner at that point.
(it seems that oGsTop lost a few practice games to oGsZenio who did a roach all-in push at this point of game)
At this point, Zerg has 19 drones. Even though he took a hit, he is already recovering. Also, he's done building roaches which take up gas, all 19 drones are mining minerals. In other words, mineral income is about the same for Terran and Zerg at this point.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YfatA.jpg)
1st banshee is coming out. Comes out around 7th minute mark. Top's original plan would've been to do worker harass with the first banshee, and build 1-2 mauraders to stop the roach rush. However if you take a look at the minimap, zerg's gas rush is still in Terran's main base. As oGsTop is lacking gas, he cannot build mauraders following tech addon nor can he do cloaking upgrade.
oGsTop's banshee does not goto zerg's base but gets used to stop 4 roach push.
(From oGsTop's position he could be thinking that there could be more roaches coming on top of the 4 that are already on their way. The reason for that is oGsZenith....)
If you are to take a look at the income tab, their mineral income is about equal. Even though Terran's harvesting more gas, zerg does not require any gas at this point. (ain't producing any units that need gas) Therefore the actual income rate is the same.
At this point the only advantage oGsTop has is that he has higher tech.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/tvbMY.jpg)
In-game clock shows 8:40.
Banshee gets 5 drones at Fruitseller's base, and comes back to stop the roach push.
Even though oGsTop took down zerg's gas extractor he is still short of gas.
He puts all his gases to produce a thor and mech attack +1 upgrade.
Since he still has a surplus of minerals left over, he makes another command center.
(oGsTop felt that he is still on top, so he would've been confident that he couldn't lose in a management game. Any Terran would feel that way)
But is Terran really out on top at this point?
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/KAfaB.jpg)
Take another look at income tab.
Now oGsTop is confident that he could not lose with his economic and tech advantage in a late-game.
This is 9 seconds after him beginning to build his 2nd additional command center.
8:49 - Zerg is getting 1080 mineral income and Terran is getting 780 mineral income.
Zerg now begins to harvest gas as well.
Zerg has higher worker count at 30 : 28.
oGsTop anticipated roach reinforcements, but Fruitseller was putting all his larvaes to drones.
He did a defensive all-in instead of doing an offensive one and it worked out splendidly.
oGsTop was in an advantageous point up to 7:01, but just in 1 minute and 49 seconds of game time, Fruitseller got ahead economically.
His mind-game worked to his advantage.
I only realized this after 1 minute has passed in the live game.
I apologize for that.
However Zerg is still behind in production capabilities and tech.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/iTg2S.jpg)
Game time at 10:24 mark.
Now Zerg is not behind anymore.
He has Lair tech up as well as having roach warren, and is getting armor upgrade.
Terran still only has 1 Thor and is about to get 2nd Thor come out.
His production capability is relatively weak.
He has 1 factory + tech addon, 1 starport with reactor addon and 1 barrack.
At this point, Zerg is ahead in both economy and production capability.
This is a complete come-back by Zerg.
After this everything works out as Fruitseller plans.
He gets to Hive without any problem and beings producing Ultralisks.
He was the most vulnerable when during his hive timing, but he bought time with burrowed baneling trap and baneling drop.
Because he played the game with the minimal amount of units, he was able to get a large number of ultralisks following Hive upgrade.
oGsTop was behind in population and unit mix at this point. (it is not due to the ultralisk bug).
Once again I'd like to thank Fruitseller and oGsTop who showed a great come-back game.
Also I'd like to wish that everyone would enjoy GSL without any misunderstanding.
Thank you!
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This is stupid... If they want to match fix they can just do 1 rax vs 6 pool or smt. Why bother playing a long ass game???
And there's like no reason to match fix at all, especially when the BW scandal hasn't faded away yet.
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United States7481 Posts
thanks for the translation king, this is really revealing as I also wondered why top didn't just attack following the hellions. i never even noticed the gas steal was still there.
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That sounds like an amazing game. I want to see 
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Well how could someone possibly say Cool won because of the splash damage "bug" against buildings.
I mean the splash damage against units is still the same as before if I'm not mistaken and it scaled with the unit size since ever (which I'd probably consider bad, but it was like this from the beginning).
I mean by the time Cool dropped his Ultralisks to the one expansion he had SUCH a huge advantage already...
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Antoine - Now you know what I've been up to this morning. lol
I too was rather suspicious of the game.. that's why I decided to translate it.
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Thanks for the translation.
Definitely a good analysis, even though I didn't ever consider there could be match fixing.
It was more a case of obvious (from the outside) bad decision making from Top more than anything. He didn't put on pressure and Cool took advantage of that.
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Thanks for the post. Really good info here!
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Wow this is very interesting, whats more it was pretty obvious fruitseller had the advantage when he smashed all those thors and the bug has nothing to do with ultralisks vs units.
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Thanks for the translation, great analysis. Cool played amazingly well, people who speak of match-fixing or the Ultra bug should get a slap on the back of the head 
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Also, what else would you do as Zerg now if you cannot even go Ultras anymore duo to the "bug abuse". 15 Broodlords? ;P
Shit, a viking has been sighted!
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On September 26 2010 02:26 TheFinalWord wrote:
Wow this is very interesting, whats more it was pretty obvious fruitseller had the advantage when he smashed all those thors and the bug has nothing to do with ultralisks vs units.
Very true. What really killed it was the thors getting caught in the exact wrong place and surrounded totally by the ultras.
I'm not sure you could ever plan for that to happen if you were trying to fix a match.
"Hey, walk all your thors into my base just as I get ultras, and position them near by hatchery in my natural, and then I will surround them and lock them in place with two groups of ultralisks".
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those drops were amazing to watch xP
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Awesome read, the thought of someone throwing the game never crossed my mind. I didn't think Cool had taken the advantage back that early, it was probably about the 10:30 mark I noticed that Cool was jumping way ahead.
+1 to you sir!
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Holy crap, GREAT op, thanks a bunch. Just the kind of content that makes this community so great. 
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aww from what i've read. seemed that he was screwed by the gas steal.
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very top notch analysis, had no idea that TOP's gas was stolen for so long.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Wow, great work in translating this, it really provided good insight into this amazing game, probably the best game and best series so far. Good job!
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And who would've thought stealing gas is such an important aspect of the game 
Next time Zergs will gas steal all the time
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Great analysis, great game. Chae Jung Won sounded very demanding on himself to provide a full and accurate account of the game.
On a side note, this play-by-play makes it sound like Cool and Check will require routine brilliance and flawless play to continue advancing.
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Off topic but is buying a ticket only way to follow this?
Seems there are some truly epic games going on which would make it worth it
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I thought the commentary was great. They did a good job. :D
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the gas steal was brilliant!
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Seems like many are beginning to think that shelling in $20 for the package deal ain't too bad after all.
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Wow I had no idea korean commentators possess this amount of sc knowledge to analyse the game this deeply. Makes me wish that I could understand korean commentary...
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On September 26 2010 02:21 Endorsed wrote:That sounds like an amazing game. I want to see
it WAS amazing... def. worth watching
not AS good as game 1... but still pretty frigging epic.
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Yeah, I know everyones saying they both played a bad game, but I thought it was great, high level play. This analysis proves as much. Thanks!
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On September 26 2010 02:50 Izzachar wrote:
Off topic but is buying a ticket only way to follow this?
Seems there are some truly epic games going on which would make it worth it
http://www.youtube.com/user/followvni#g/u
takes a few days
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This sounds right. If I remember correctly from the interview, cool also said he thought he lost so he decided to just make a bunch of drones. It was a risk but since it went unpunished, it allowed him to get back into the game.
Thanks for the analysis on the gas.
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Who would want to match fix when you are so close to 85 000 Dollar, or 9 000- 26 000 $ even...
Nothing about the entire series made me even think of mach fix. It was just an epic moment when COOL's ultralisk surrounded those thors
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Those games were fucking incredible and never for a second did they look anything but legitimate.
Cool is brilliant.
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Thanks. Now I'm even more torn if I should pay or not =) But I have the option to youtube it at least.
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zerg droned hard to catch up, he was very vulnerable to an attack if the terran player decided to push at anytime after his harass when the zerg was dronning up. Cool even said it himself in the interview afterwards.........
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Very good insight in the OP. I like the concept of an economic all in. Its something I never had a word for before.
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lol match fixing? not likely, but really neat analysis
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This analysis is good. I learn something from it.
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If anything this shows just how excellent the professional korean commentators are ^^
that sort of analysis is pretty stunning.
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I wonder where did this matchifixing rumor come from. In that case, why not being suspicious of Hyperdub vs TLO game 1 as well?
"Epic comeback" might be a bit exagerrated. It was a good comeback but to me it seemed that cool was definitely not that far behind because the Terran harass was far from perfect. The pressure applied to Zerg's economy was too light.
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United States7481 Posts
On September 26 2010 05:28 AlBundy wrote:
I wonder where does this matchifixing rumor came from. In that case, why not being suspicious of Hyperdub vs TLO game 1 as well?
self-hating zergs positing conspiracy theories
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51451 Posts
On September 26 2010 02:53 AssuredVacancy wrote:
Wow I had no idea korean commentators possess this amount of sc knowledge to analyse the game this deeply. Makes me wish that I could understand korean commentary...
thankfully they improved with sc2, in bw commentary they were completely rubbish.
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I agree, it was definitely a comeback, but not as wild as it seemed on the cast. Tastosis, rightfully, focused on the Cool's base and we saw drones being roasted and great banshee harass. But seeing this view from the T perspective, it seems Cool was not that far behind at all.
Anyway a great series and I'm so glad I won't get pooped on for saying ultras work well vs mass Thor
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Not saying the match was fixed, but why didn't TOP dropped a thor at Cool's natural???
This is a very common technique on kulas and lt, and there was no way he could have defended that because the rocks were full hp and he only had some roaches/lings.
As Cool said, he was waiting for TOP to finish him while he took the risk to pump drones (with almost no defense) and type gg. But TOP never did that ...
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Thanx for translating this, it was a great game, ultralisk bug has nothing to do with his g3 win I think, but has at least a little something to do with his g1 win. (top nearly defended the ultrapush, but the fact that cool began to attack the wall instead of the units made a giant "no man's land" like a half screen size where every terran unit is nearly instant dying. That gave him the edge he needed to win. (but top could have repelled this and lost later, we'll never know))
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very interesting game indeed...
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And this my friends, is why the Koreans are good at Starcraft.
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On September 26 2010 02:53 AssuredVacancy wrote:
Wow I had no idea korean commentators possess this amount of sc knowledge to analyse the game this deeply. Makes me wish that I could understand korean commentary...
Yeah tbh, lets imagine tasteless or artosis doing the same... not going to happen. Just trying to tell us constantly how 'high level' the game is without any real insight.
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When I was watching this game I was wondering why 250mm Strike Cannons weren't used. Everyone says they're useless because of no stun, but they do 500 damage, Ultralisk have 500 hp. Ultralisk will survive due to regeneration still it seems like a lot of damage. I don't have any experience vs mass Thors I'm just wondering why it wasn't used and if it really is that useless.
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On September 26 2010 06:14 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 02:53 AssuredVacancy wrote:
Wow I had no idea korean commentators possess this amount of sc knowledge to analyse the game this deeply. Makes me wish that I could understand korean commentary... Yeah tbh, lets imagine tasteless or artosis doing the same... not going to happen. Just trying to tell us constantly how 'high level' the game is without any real insight.
DUDE THAT IS SO HIGH LEVEL
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I see a lot of people saying that both players made mistakes, that Top misused or didn't even try some tactics, especially with thors, and that Cool's early game was terrible, etc.
But you need to remember that playing in a booth against the best players in front of thousand of spectators can be very stressful. Cool himself said that he made many mistakes because of the nervousness.
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Very good analysis there, I know when I was watching the game I never even considered that Top hadn't killed the gas steal and therefore couldn't follow-up the attack with the obvious cloaked banshee composition. I just thought that Cool was hopelessly behind and then I was really perplexed when Top double expanded.
Part of it is Tasteless and Artosis, while they certainly aren't bad and their job is very difficult, I think they miss some of the finer points of the game and get caught up in the exciting parts like the roaches assaulting the base and the banshee killing them rather than the fact that the terran is stuck on one gas geyser (it's possible that they mentioned that and i missed it, I should watch the game again). They need to do a better job of constantly cycling through the unit, income, and total resource tab as well as telling us what each player's food count is. I'm on the HQ stream and I still typically can't make those values out and that's critical to the view in understanding whose ahead and the current match conditions. We all have little nerdgasms when Tasteless goes on his "OMG this is so cool" sprees but it doesn't add to the quality of the commentary and the same effect can be achieved in a better way. Tasteless dropping the f-bomb in game 1 of TLO-Hyperdub was fun and I certainly didn't dislike it but if they're trying to give the appearance of being professional they just can't do that.
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Kind of off-topic but don't you think that it would be better if the observer was a third person? That way Tastosis could really concentrate on commentating instead of trying to look around the map for every detail.
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On September 26 2010 06:38 proxY_ wrote:
Very good analysis there, I know when I was watching the game I never even considered that Top hadn't killed the gas steal and therefore couldn't follow-up the attack with the obvious cloaked banshee composition. I just thought that Cool was hopelessly behind and then I was really perplexed when Top double expanded.
Part of it is Tasteless and Artosis, while they certainly aren't bad and their job is very difficult, I think they miss some of the finer points of the game and get caught up in the exciting parts like the roaches assaulting the base and the banshee killing them rather than the fact that the terran is stuck on one gas geyser (it's possible that they mentioned that and i missed it, I should watch the game again). They need to do a better job of constantly cycling through the unit, income, and total resource tab as well as telling us what each player's food count is. I'm on the HQ stream and I still typically can't make those values out and that's critical to the view in understanding whose ahead and the current match conditions. We all have little nerdgasms when Tasteless goes on his "OMG this is so cool" sprees but it doesn't add to the quality of the commentary and the same effect can be achieved in a better way. Tasteless dropping the f-bomb in game 1 of TLO-Hyperdub was fun and I certainly didn't dislike it but if they're trying to give the appearance of being professional they just can't do that.
What you said is more or less true, but remember the kor commentator made the same mistakes. That's why he made a forum post after the game.
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It probably wasn't fixed, but I still strongly question the Terran's play and know why Korean's are questioning it as well. After the damaging early game harrass, he could have easily kept pressuring until the zerg toppled (which is what 90% of Terran's I've played against would do). He also didn't abuse any of the Kulas map features that also probably would have won him the game. Instead he sat back and build up thors and let Cool super drone macro up and back into the game where he could easily get ultras out.
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On September 26 2010 06:18 BlackMagister wrote:
When I was watching this game I was wondering why 250mm Strike Cannons weren't used. Everyone says they're useless because of no stun, but they do 500 damage, Ultralisk have 500 hp. Ultralisk will survive due to regeneration still it seems like a lot of damage. I don't have any experience vs mass Thors I'm just wondering why it wasn't used and if it really is that useless.
In fact, without the stun, only the DPS count, and 250mm' dps is nearly exactly the same as normal attack dps.
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On September 26 2010 06:44 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 06:38 proxY_ wrote:
Very good analysis there, I know when I was watching the game I never even considered that Top hadn't killed the gas steal and therefore couldn't follow-up the attack with the obvious cloaked banshee composition. I just thought that Cool was hopelessly behind and then I was really perplexed when Top double expanded.
Part of it is Tasteless and Artosis, while they certainly aren't bad and their job is very difficult, I think they miss some of the finer points of the game and get caught up in the exciting parts like the roaches assaulting the base and the banshee killing them rather than the fact that the terran is stuck on one gas geyser (it's possible that they mentioned that and i missed it, I should watch the game again). They need to do a better job of constantly cycling through the unit, income, and total resource tab as well as telling us what each player's food count is. I'm on the HQ stream and I still typically can't make those values out and that's critical to the view in understanding whose ahead and the current match conditions. We all have little nerdgasms when Tasteless goes on his "OMG this is so cool" sprees but it doesn't add to the quality of the commentary and the same effect can be achieved in a better way. Tasteless dropping the f-bomb in game 1 of TLO-Hyperdub was fun and I certainly didn't dislike it but if they're trying to give the appearance of being professional they just can't do that. What you said is more or less true, but remember the kor commentator made the same mistakes. That's why he made a forum post after the game.
That's true but the Korean commentator is apologizing for not realizing that the game state had shifted in favor of cool for about one minute (7:40 as opposed to like 8:40) I think. When I watched the game live, at this point I remember just being very confused about what was going on, why the game was playing out like it was, and who was ahead. I didn't really get the feeling that Cool had pulled ahead until he dropped his fourth base (the top natural) and we should've known that Cool had a drone lead and was even possibly in the lead when his gold hatchery was in production.
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people saying that ultralisk's bug has nothing to do with vsing units, it does. otherwise scvs wouldnt get raped when repairing a PF. u can also see that the amount of splash those ultras were dealing against those bunched up thor at zerg's natural seemed too big. thors in the middle or back of the clump were damaged by an ultra attacking a front thor
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Fixed or not, TOP did not play at the level he did in matches before it.
He did not abuse the map, and did not push early.
That screenshot with 1000 income to terrans 700? One mule would even that out, and TOP had TWO CC on the way. His econ was fine. His banshee was still alive (he didn't even repair it..?) and he had done over 500 minerals worth of damage in just DRONES.
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Canada11350 Posts
On September 26 2010 06:44 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 06:38 proxY_ wrote:
Very good analysis there, I know when I was watching the game I never even considered that Top hadn't killed the gas steal and therefore couldn't follow-up the attack with the obvious cloaked banshee composition. I just thought that Cool was hopelessly behind and then I was really perplexed when Top double expanded.
Part of it is Tasteless and Artosis, while they certainly aren't bad and their job is very difficult, I think they miss some of the finer points of the game and get caught up in the exciting parts like the roaches assaulting the base and the banshee killing them rather than the fact that the terran is stuck on one gas geyser (it's possible that they mentioned that and i missed it, I should watch the game again). They need to do a better job of constantly cycling through the unit, income, and total resource tab as well as telling us what each player's food count is. I'm on the HQ stream and I still typically can't make those values out and that's critical to the view in understanding whose ahead and the current match conditions. We all have little nerdgasms when Tasteless goes on his "OMG this is so cool" sprees but it doesn't add to the quality of the commentary and the same effect can be achieved in a better way. Tasteless dropping the f-bomb in game 1 of TLO-Hyperdub was fun and I certainly didn't dislike it but if they're trying to give the appearance of being professional they just can't do that. What you said is more or less true, but remember the kor commentator made the same mistakes. That's why he made a forum post after the game.
I'd like to agree with this. Whatever you think of Tasteosis's level of commentary, it's patently unfair to compare live analysis to a 1300 word essay written after the fact.
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On September 26 2010 06:53 ZidaneTribal wrote:
people saying that ultralisk's bug has nothing to do with vsing units, it does. otherwise scvs wouldnt get raped when repairing a PF. u can also see that the amount of splash those ultras were dealing against those bunched up thor at zerg's natural seemed too big. thors in the middle or back of the clump were damaged by an ultra attacking a front thor
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think 1.1 ultralisks work like that. SCVs repairing buildings and getting hit by the splash is intended, however, SCVs 2 tiles away getting hit be the same spash is not intended.
Plus this "behavior" does only exist when ultras attack buildings, not units.
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On September 26 2010 06:53 ZidaneTribal wrote:
people saying that ultralisk's bug has nothing to do with vsing units, it does. otherwise scvs wouldnt get raped when repairing a PF. u can also see that the amount of splash those ultras were dealing against those bunched up thor at zerg's natural seemed too big. thors in the middle or back of the clump were damaged by an ultra attacking a front thor
No, the bug does not effect units. As in, when the Ultra attacks a unit it works the exact same way it used to before 1.1.
The change bugged so when attacking a CC or Nexus it makes the splash way too big. Only on Buildings does the splash get abnormally big.
XOOU
X being the Ultra, O's being Thors, and U being a SCV. The SCV would still get hit before 1.1. It's been like this since Beta.
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thanks for taking the time to translate.
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Wow, great post thanks very much sir!
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This game was so epic and inspiring. Thank you Cool, Top and Gomtv for the awesome show!
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Man... Korean commentators are fucking thorough.
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I have never heard this level of commentary in English. Even if the commentator reviews the game beforehand.
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Thank you so much for translating this. That is an extremely good post game analysis by the commentator!
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On September 26 2010 06:57 Seam wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 06:53 ZidaneTribal wrote:
people saying that ultralisk's bug has nothing to do with vsing units, it does. otherwise scvs wouldnt get raped when repairing a PF. u can also see that the amount of splash those ultras were dealing against those bunched up thor at zerg's natural seemed too big. thors in the middle or back of the clump were damaged by an ultra attacking a front thor No, the bug does not effect units. As in, when the Ultra attacks a unit it works the exact same way it used to before 1.1. The change bugged so when attacking a CC or Nexus it makes the splash way too big. Only on Buildings does the splash get abnormally big. XOOU X being the Ultra, O's being Thors, and U being a SCV. The SCV would still get hit before 1.1. It's been like this since Beta.
Ultra splash is the same as before. Here is why it seems more ridiculous though.
Lets say thor is a radius 1.5 unit ( i am not sure what it is). Ultra splash does unit radius +2 splash. So that's a circle of radius 3.5, or area of pi * 3.5^2.
Now lets assume the PF has radius of 4 which I believe is true. Ultras will now splash at radius of 6 just like the formula before. However let's look at the area, i.e how many units are hit.
A = pi*6^2.
This is 6^2/3.5^2 ~ 3. That is going from a radius of 1.5 -> 4 causes the area affected to actually increase by a factor of 3, not 2. This is why it seems so much more powerful. however the formula is the same.
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On September 26 2010 07:44 blacktoss wrote:
I have never heard this level of commentary in English. Even if the commentator reviews the game beforehand.
That is because this is analysis and not commentary. Analysis is not entertaining for most people, commentary is.
Think of it like the difference between day9 doing his daily and day9 doing a live cast of a tournament game. One is analysis (the daily), the other is commentary (the tournament cast).
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Analysis is done after the game and you are able to study it more. Commentary can provide insight but its much more difficult to both cast the game and think deeply about what's going on. After seeing the whole game and knowing the outcome you can start to discover things. Commentators won't be able to be this indepth in a live game unless its a situation they've analyzed before.
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On September 26 2010 07:59 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 07:44 blacktoss wrote:
I have never heard this level of commentary in English. Even if the commentator reviews the game beforehand. That is because this is analysis and not commentary. Analysis is not entertaining for most people, commentary is. Think of it like the difference between day9 doing his daily and day9 doing a live cast of a tournament game. One is analysis (the daily), the other is commentary (the tournament cast).
One is him explaining what's going on in a thoughtful manner, the other is him going "OMG this player did this and now OMG the other player is doing that!!!". If english sc commentators actually knew how to be exciting like sports commentators or korean sc commentators, then yeah it'd be fine, but instead they seem to think that speaking like 14 year old girls and dropping f-bombs is a valid substitute.
If they can't be exciting I'd much rather they either try to be informative like whoever wrote the OP, or charismatic like CholeraSC. How I miss CholeraSC, they should fire tastless/artosis and hire him instead (even if he has disappered...).
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On September 26 2010 07:56 Lunares wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 06:57 Seam wrote:On September 26 2010 06:53 ZidaneTribal wrote:
people saying that ultralisk's bug has nothing to do with vsing units, it does. otherwise scvs wouldnt get raped when repairing a PF. u can also see that the amount of splash those ultras were dealing against those bunched up thor at zerg's natural seemed too big. thors in the middle or back of the clump were damaged by an ultra attacking a front thor No, the bug does not effect units. As in, when the Ultra attacks a unit it works the exact same way it used to before 1.1. The change bugged so when attacking a CC or Nexus it makes the splash way too big. Only on Buildings does the splash get abnormally big. XOOU X being the Ultra, O's being Thors, and U being a SCV. The SCV would still get hit before 1.1. It's been like this since Beta. Ultra splash is the same as before. Here is why it seems more ridiculous though. Lets say thor is a radius 1.5 unit ( i am not sure what it is). Ultra splash does unit radius +2 splash. So that's a circle of radius 3.5, or area of pi * 3.5^2. Now lets assume the PF has radius of 4 which I believe is true. Ultras will now splash at radius of 6 just like the formula before. However let's look at the area, i.e how many units are hit. A = pi*6^2. This is 6^2/3.5^2 ~ 3. That is going from a radius of 1.5 -> 4 causes the area affected to actually increase by a factor of 3, not 2. This is why it seems so much more powerful. however the formula is the same.
I dont think the PF has a radius of 4... perhaps you mean a diameter of 4? The ultra does have a splash range of the edge of the unit +2 range though. I imagine they forgot to change the splash target to the middle when they put the patch out. Curious how they will fix this since the current splash radius makes them strong against thor, but if they fix it to be the middle like a siege tank (which doesnt hit SCV's at all when hitting a building) then itll be a lot weaker.
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Great analysis, i'm glad this was translated.
On the ultra splash, it is ridiculous at this time. When Cool takes out the 11o'clock and the 9o'clock gold, you can see the TURRETS getting taken out by the splash. I don't believe this would have changed that outcome at that point, but it was pretty shocking to watch, and it could make a big difference in a closer game. By the time the ultras were out and the 12-15 thor push was dead, it was a slow death for terran. Cool could have ended the game much more efficiently by not throwing away his 1st and 2nd batch of ultras.
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On September 26 2010 08:07 attackfighter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 07:59 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 26 2010 07:44 blacktoss wrote:
I have never heard this level of commentary in English. Even if the commentator reviews the game beforehand. That is because this is analysis and not commentary. Analysis is not entertaining for most people, commentary is. Think of it like the difference between day9 doing his daily and day9 doing a live cast of a tournament game. One is analysis (the daily), the other is commentary (the tournament cast). One is him explaining what's going on in a thoughtful manner, the other is him going "OMG this player did this and now OMG the other player is doing that!!!". If english sc commentators actually knew how to be exciting like sports commentators or korean sc commentators, then yeah it'd be fine, but instead they seem to think that speaking like 14 year old girls and dropping f-bombs is a valid substitute. If they can't be exciting I'd much rather they either try to be informative like whoever wrote the OP, or charismatic like CholeraSC. How I miss CholeraSC, they should fire tastless/artosis and hire him instead (even if he has disappered...).
Sports commentators do the same thing that artosis and tasteless are doing. I dont speak korean, so I dont know what they are doing. Sports commentators also have the advantage of just cutting to a commercial when there is a lull in the game (ie: a timeout, change of possession etc) while for SC they need to maintain commentary. Also, slipping one f bomb once and you hammer him about it? Seriously?
Analysis is done after the game and you are able to study it more. Commentary can provide insight but its much more difficult to both cast the game and think deeply about what's going on. After seeing the whole game and knowing the outcome you can start to discover things. Commentators won't be able to be this indepth in a live game unless its a situation they've analyzed before.
I am not a great player, but when I watch games (and have done test commentary) I think that you can analyze quite a lot. It isnt as entertaining though because instead of making a joke or doing something entertaining, you go into a dry analysis of what he is planning to do.
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On September 26 2010 08:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 08:07 attackfighter wrote:On September 26 2010 07:59 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 26 2010 07:44 blacktoss wrote:
I have never heard this level of commentary in English. Even if the commentator reviews the game beforehand. That is because this is analysis and not commentary. Analysis is not entertaining for most people, commentary is. Think of it like the difference between day9 doing his daily and day9 doing a live cast of a tournament game. One is analysis (the daily), the other is commentary (the tournament cast). One is him explaining what's going on in a thoughtful manner, the other is him going "OMG this player did this and now OMG the other player is doing that!!!". If english sc commentators actually knew how to be exciting like sports commentators or korean sc commentators, then yeah it'd be fine, but instead they seem to think that speaking like 14 year old girls and dropping f-bombs is a valid substitute. If they can't be exciting I'd much rather they either try to be informative like whoever wrote the OP, or charismatic like CholeraSC. How I miss CholeraSC, they should fire tastless/artosis and hire him instead (even if he has disappered...). Sports commentators do the same thing that artosis and tasteless are doing. I dont speak korean, so I dont know what they are doing. Sports commentators also have the advantage of just cutting to a commercial when there is a lull in the game (ie: a timeout, change of possession etc) while for SC they need to maintain commentary. Also, slipping one f bomb once and you hammer him about it? Seriously? Show nested quote +Analysis is done after the game and you are able to study it more. Commentary can provide insight but its much more difficult to both cast the game and think deeply about what's going on. After seeing the whole game and knowing the outcome you can start to discover things. Commentators won't be able to be this indepth in a live game unless its a situation they've analyzed before. I am not a great player, but when I watch games (and have done test commentary) I think that you can analyze quite a lot. It isnt as entertaining though because instead of making a joke or doing something entertaining, you go into a dry analysis of what he is planning to do.
Ya I'm sure plenty of other commentators spend 90% of their time repeating 'this game is very high level' over and over again, making immature jokes and plugging their dumb websites all the time 'that player is a handsome nerd... btw check out my website called the handomse nerd'.
They are BAD commentators, youtube commentators are better, as they are more focused on the game and provide better colour commentary (and face it no english commentator provides any sort of meaningful insight, the closest we get is tasteless calling players "shittle" and then congradulating himself for making that joke up).
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I agree that this level of analysis seems to be a step above what I've seen from the likes of Day[9] - if we are to regard him as the pinnacle of English commentary.
However, I would also like to note that it is much easier to be thorough when you have a chance to sit down and write it up as opposed to casting it live (the daily).
I got the chills reading the analysis. It was great.
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On September 26 2010 08:24 attackfighter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 08:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 26 2010 08:07 attackfighter wrote:On September 26 2010 07:59 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 26 2010 07:44 blacktoss wrote:
I have never heard this level of commentary in English. Even if the commentator reviews the game beforehand. That is because this is analysis and not commentary. Analysis is not entertaining for most people, commentary is. Think of it like the difference between day9 doing his daily and day9 doing a live cast of a tournament game. One is analysis (the daily), the other is commentary (the tournament cast). One is him explaining what's going on in a thoughtful manner, the other is him going "OMG this player did this and now OMG the other player is doing that!!!". If english sc commentators actually knew how to be exciting like sports commentators or korean sc commentators, then yeah it'd be fine, but instead they seem to think that speaking like 14 year old girls and dropping f-bombs is a valid substitute. If they can't be exciting I'd much rather they either try to be informative like whoever wrote the OP, or charismatic like CholeraSC. How I miss CholeraSC, they should fire tastless/artosis and hire him instead (even if he has disappered...). Sports commentators do the same thing that artosis and tasteless are doing. I dont speak korean, so I dont know what they are doing. Sports commentators also have the advantage of just cutting to a commercial when there is a lull in the game (ie: a timeout, change of possession etc) while for SC they need to maintain commentary. Also, slipping one f bomb once and you hammer him about it? Seriously? Analysis is done after the game and you are able to study it more. Commentary can provide insight but its much more difficult to both cast the game and think deeply about what's going on. After seeing the whole game and knowing the outcome you can start to discover things. Commentators won't be able to be this indepth in a live game unless its a situation they've analyzed before. I am not a great player, but when I watch games (and have done test commentary) I think that you can analyze quite a lot. It isnt as entertaining though because instead of making a joke or doing something entertaining, you go into a dry analysis of what he is planning to do. Ya I'm sure plenty of other commentators spend 90% of their time repeating 'this game is very high level' over and over again, making immature jokes and plugging their dumb websites all the time 'that player is a handsome nerd... btw check out my website called the handomse nerd'. They are BAD commentators, youtube commentators are better, as they are more focused on the game and provide better colour commentary (and face it no english commentator provides any sort of meaningful insight, the closest we get is tasteless calling players "shittle" and then congradulating himself for making that joke up).
If you have a choice of:
a) Being very insightful for 20% of the veiwers, and boring for the other 80% or;
b) Commentating what is currently going on and making jokes during boring parts of the game
Which do you think sells better?
And I've yet to see a commentator be very insightful during a live game, but maybe I've not been watching enough peoples. Usually when I see commentators being insightful, it's during either a replay, or after the game.
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This is incredible analysis. I hope we can get more of his comments in the future... translated for those of us less proficient in Hangul. I am greatly impressed by his reasonings and breakdowns.
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Holy crap, the professional commentators are so knowledgeable about the game.
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Artosis and Tasteless are funny due to bromance and hate for terrans
Korean commentators are funny for "PLAGUUUU AHH PLAGUUUUU and REVAH REVAH REVAH REBA REBA REBA REBA"
Though I think korean would be more fun to watch if I could understand it.
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Ty for the translation, very interesting comments. I saw the game and didn't pick up some of the nuances this guy explained in his post. Its great to see the decision reasoning for these players.
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That fucking first game....
OH MY GOD....
I want to play TvT now.
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I am either not getting something or this "step by step guide" is useless?
What i found extremely odd about this game is that AFTER the 10:24 mark Top just sit in his base making basicly 200/200 thors. Nowere in there it explains why this is justifiable.
In game 1 he did a ton of drops, in this one he could easly dropped a thor on the ledge to harass and possibly take out the natural early on, but he didnt, he just sit in his base chilling and then moved out just when the other guys ultralisks were poping out, weird really weird. Oh and btw there were no mutas so he could have made all the drops he wanted.
Nah the more i think about the more it seems fixed...possibly the best ogs player, one of the top player (top lulz), on the 3rd round game, sit on the base making thors? He should have gone really wild and just made 200/200 battlecruisers, seriously...
Also i dont really see how because zerg was not actualy too much behind somehow it justifies this outcome, if anything the moment Top saw that gold he should either gone for a pushing atempt or somesort of drop harass or a stronger banshee harass also seeing as there were no mutas.
This isnt a mistake, like "ops i lost a medevac full of units" or " i made mass banshee and he has mass muta", he purposly sit in his base fully aware that his opponent had more bases then him and did nothing.
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Great analysis but there is no match fix. Why would there be?
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Very nice article and translation. Thanks!
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All of you that doubt tasteless and artosis, I bet you money they could analyze any game just like this Korean commentator did, after rewatching said game in a replay.
Looking at the game again, it is possible. Tasteless questions why Terran had Zerg basically rocked but opted to expand instead of killing him. Artosis replies that maybe he was going for some kind of thor timing push.
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I don't understand that after such an epic series, everyone is so up the ass paranoid about it being set up. Can't you just accept something as an epic game?
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Osaka27149 Posts
Great work, put in the spotlight.
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The fact that there is controversy over this being setup shows you just how imbalanced EVERYONE considers this matchup. As if the terran would've had to try to lose to actually lose. Hilarious.
Honestly, I bet cool got into ogstop's head. There is alot of money on the line. They said that team OGS helped him come up with some solid build, because clearly they were afraid of cool or at least the possibility of him giving top a challenge. So instead of just playing straight up and grinding on the aggression, he went and did something weird which, hey guess what, didn't work! That's my take of it.  Such a perfect game, won't ever be recreated, just a perfect storm of action and reaction... so sick.
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I didn't know there was an actually a debate about this- but this hopefully will be the final word about it.
With the new patch changes- the size of Thors seems to put them at serious disadvantage vs ultras.
Your work at the translation and post is much appreciated. I love how suspect ANY Zerg winning these days is. You must be hackin' or payin' bitches to lose. haha
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Heh, I like this commentator's way of describing Cool's droning as a 'defensive all in'.
It's interesting because we tend to think of 'all-ins' as applying specifically to offensive tactics, but it can be applied to Cool's kind of situation as well.
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i would love to see more of these types of articles. really helps me appreciate the game even more
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I don't think they would fix a match in this way, pressure is more likely to lead to poor descisions
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On September 26 2010 09:44 KingAce wrote:
All of you that doubt tasteless and artosis, I bet you money they could analyze any game just like this Korean commentator did, after rewatching said game in a replay.
Looking at the game again, it is possible. Tasteless questions why Terran had Zerg basically rocked but opted to expand instead of killing him. Artosis replies that maybe he was going for some kind of thor timing push.
Maybe they could, but they definately won't. They don't seem interested at all in the games they cast, the obligatory "WHAT A HIGH LEVEL GAME" they yell out almost every match seems so forced and the only time they bother describing what's going on is for really obvious stuff, like "oh look he's walling his ramp". Half-way through the games, once things start getting complicated, they just seem to doze off and start making little cutesy jokes with each other (such as "it;s almost like we finish our sentences AT THE EXACT SAME TIME" line which they've used about 5 times so far), it's just boring to listen to them. If they would start analyzing the games like this Korean caster they'd be so much better... even if they failed and missed some stuff, it would be a huge improvement over this minimalist thing they currently have going.
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wow that was an awesome analysis, thanks!
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Thank you for the translation.
That game is awesome, but yeah weird. I guess at that time Top was mentally wrecked that he couldn't do what most Terrans do against zerg: build units, attack, gg.
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On September 26 2010 10:34 cursor wrote:
With the new patch changes- the size of Thors seems to put them at serious disadvantage vs ultras.
the patch did absolutely nothing to increase the effectiveness of Ultras Vs Thors.
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On September 26 2010 06:54 Fa1nT wrote:
Fixed or not, TOP did not play at the level he did in matches before it.
He did not abuse the map, and did not push early.
That screenshot with 1000 income to terrans 700? One mule would even that out, and TOP had TWO CC on the way. His econ was fine. His banshee was still alive (he didn't even repair it..?) and he had done over 500 minerals worth of damage in just DRONES.
And this is why this game was so epic... because even a brilliant-minded zerg can outplay an overpowered terran.
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Zerg won?? OMGmatchfixing
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To be honest, I never really noticed that those hellions stayed in his base, or that he still had his gas stolen. 5 stars for the in depth analysis, it at least shows that these guys know what they are talking about!
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On September 26 2010 12:25 mierin wrote:
Zerg won?? OMGmatchfixing
Is this supposed to be sarcastic?
Zerg won, when he was a mile behind, on a bad map, in bad position, vs one of, if not the best terran player in the world.
Yeah.
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thanks for the translation great insight by the commentator
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The guy who did this commentary is, by far, the best commentator on Gom. He always makes good points about how the game can play out depending on what route each player takes and detailed explanations of how the skirmish just now changes things. I'm not sure how long he has prepared for commentating SC2 but he seems fully prepared most of the time, pointing out the map characteristics (and position) based strategy/tactics and information he gathered from interviewing and obsing top players.
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This is why you release replays for tournaments (delayed as necessary to support the economics).
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United States7481 Posts
On September 26 2010 13:27 Heen wrote:
The guy who did this commentary is, by far, the best commentator on Gom. He always makes good points about how the game can play out depending on what route each player takes and detailed explanations of how the skirmish just now changes things. I'm not sure how long he has prepared for commentating SC2 but he seems fully prepared most of the time, pointing out the map characteristics (and position) based strategy/tactics and information he gathered from interviewing and obsing top players.
a lot of time he and the other gsl commentator (their bnet names are sort and ljy) are obsing the games on gisado's koth. these guys must watch so much sc2.
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On September 26 2010 11:05 attackfighter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 09:44 KingAce wrote:
All of you that doubt tasteless and artosis, I bet you money they could analyze any game just like this Korean commentator did, after rewatching said game in a replay.
Looking at the game again, it is possible. Tasteless questions why Terran had Zerg basically rocked but opted to expand instead of killing him. Artosis replies that maybe he was going for some kind of thor timing push. Maybe they could, but they definately won't. They don't seem interested at all in the games they cast, the obligatory "WHAT A HIGH LEVEL GAME" they yell out almost every match seems so forced and the only time they bother describing what's going on is for really obvious stuff, like "oh look he's walling his ramp". Half-way through the games, once things start getting complicated, they just seem to doze off and start making little cutesy jokes with each other (such as "it;s almost like we finish our sentences AT THE EXACT SAME TIME" line which they've used about 5 times so far), it's just boring to listen to them. If they would start analyzing the games like this Korean caster they'd be so much better... even if they failed and missed some stuff, it would be a huge improvement over this minimalist thing they currently have going.
You're selective hearing and you've already set a negative opinion on these guys. They do analyze the game, as well as goof of at times. They're informative and entertaining and they will get better with time(it is a new game).
From what I am reading you just don't like them.
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Do people really think this game was fixed? I just thought oGsTop was uber bad, and relied on the inherent terran turtle ability that he could just a-move when he felt like it. I guess you could call it a come from behind, but its more like a poorly played game by the terran player, and a standard play from the zerg(up until the few overlord drops late in the game).
I mean we have seen some pretty darn bad play so far in the gsl, why can't oGsTop be part of it to?
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Korean day[9] over 'ere...
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On September 26 2010 14:20 zomgtossrush wrote:
Do people really think this game was fixed? I just thought oGsTop was uber bad, and relied on the inherent terran turtle ability that he could just a-move when he felt like it. I guess you could call it a come from behind, but its more like a poorly played game by the terran player, and a standard play from the zerg(up until the few overlord drops late in the game).
I mean we have seen some pretty darn bad play so far in the gsl, why can't oGsTop be part of it to?
Top played well in all those 3 games, pretty much showed that his mechanics is better than almost all other terran foreigners out there, exception to prolly morrow, but Top has definately showed in GSL he is definately one of the best Terrans in the world , alongside Clide,Maka,Rainbow,Morrow (IMO anyways).
But Cool took a gamble. If Top made a timing push to follow up those hellions it would be pretty much over, but he didnt and his gamble paid off, which pretty much is just sayin Cool outsmarted or simply predicted his opponent better. But I suppose having Clide as a teammate and main terran training partner , he should be used to handling such situations, and kudos to him for most probably going to be the only Zerg in the top 8 (I honestly don't see Check having any chance of getting through)
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On September 26 2010 07:56 Lunares wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 06:57 Seam wrote:On September 26 2010 06:53 ZidaneTribal wrote:
people saying that ultralisk's bug has nothing to do with vsing units, it does. otherwise scvs wouldnt get raped when repairing a PF. u can also see that the amount of splash those ultras were dealing against those bunched up thor at zerg's natural seemed too big. thors in the middle or back of the clump were damaged by an ultra attacking a front thor No, the bug does not effect units. As in, when the Ultra attacks a unit it works the exact same way it used to before 1.1. The change bugged so when attacking a CC or Nexus it makes the splash way too big. Only on Buildings does the splash get abnormally big. XOOU X being the Ultra, O's being Thors, and U being a SCV. The SCV would still get hit before 1.1. It's been like this since Beta. Ultra splash is the same as before. Here is why it seems more ridiculous though. Lets say thor is a radius 1.5 unit ( i am not sure what it is). Ultra splash does unit radius +2 splash. So that's a circle of radius 3.5, or area of pi * 3.5^2. Now lets assume the PF has radius of 4 which I believe is true. Ultras will now splash at radius of 6 just like the formula before. However let's look at the area, i.e how many units are hit. A = pi*6^2. This is 6^2/3.5^2 ~ 3. That is going from a radius of 1.5 -> 4 causes the area affected to actually increase by a factor of 3, not 2. This is why it seems so much more powerful. however the formula is the same.
I think you need to take into consideration that units cannot occupy the same space that the target is.
So for you calculations.
Thor splash zone --> pi*(3.5^2 - 1.5^2)
CC/PF splash zone --> pi*(6^2 - 4^2)
So the end result is that using your hypothetical numbers, the actual splash zone for a CC/PF is twice that of a thor and not 3 times.
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On September 26 2010 09:16 Alexstrasas wrote:
I am either not getting something or this "step by step guide" is useless?
What i found extremely odd about this game is that AFTER the 10:24 mark Top just sit in his base making basicly 200/200 thors. Nowere in there it explains why this is justifiable.
In game 1 he did a ton of drops, in this one he could easly dropped a thor on the ledge to harass and possibly take out the natural early on, but he didnt, he just sit in his base chilling and then moved out just when the other guys ultralisks were poping out, weird really weird. Oh and btw there were no mutas so he could have made all the drops he wanted.
Nah the more i think about the more it seems fixed...possibly the best ogs player, one of the top player (top lulz), on the 3rd round game, sit on the base making thors? He should have gone really wild and just made 200/200 battlecruisers, seriously...
Also i dont really see how because zerg was not actualy too much behind somehow it justifies this outcome, if anything the moment Top saw that gold he should either gone for a pushing atempt or somesort of drop harass or a stronger banshee harass also seeing as there were no mutas.
This isnt a mistake, like "ops i lost a medevac full of units" or " i made mass banshee and he has mass muta", he purposly sit in his base fully aware that his opponent had more bases then him and did nothing.
You forget that Tester and Cool were also The best oGs players while they were still in oGs.
You also can't assume that had TOP done some other action that the outcome would have been reversed since you don't know how Cool would have reacted to a change in TOP's changes.
A players actions do not exist in isolation, they are generally reactionary.
200/200 battecruisers would just mean Cool would have gone crazy on the corrupters instead of ultralisks. Corrupters being Lair tech instead of Hive means that the game may have ended even sooner. We just can't know for sure what the outcome would be had someone done something differently since you can't assume his opponent would have done exactly the same.
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On September 26 2010 10:34 cursor wrote:
I didn't know there was an actually a debate about this- but this hopefully will be the final word about it.
With the new patch changes- the size of Thors seems to put them at serious disadvantage vs ultras.
Your work at the translation and post is much appreciated. I love how suspect ANY Zerg winning these days is. You must be hackin' or payin' bitches to lose. haha
The patch changes actually weakened Ultra's vs. Thors since Ultras received a damage NERF. The splash on units has always been the same.
Also, Thor's received a size reduction during Beta whilst the Ultras who are melee units and would have benefitted more from a size reduction did not.
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One opinion on the Korean forums is that TOP wanted to prove something when he started massing Thors. Wanted to win the game in one single clean, power push, and consequently ignored standard strategy of drops or harasses. And given how seemingly ahead he was at that point in the game, it might make some sense. Also you have to take into account that this was game 3, and they were both pretty exhausted from the two preceding games.
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Amazing game(s) and really great analysis
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If Tasteless and Artosis could please, please, please, spend more time looking at bases, commenting on what is and what is not producing, we'd be able to get a much better picture of what's going on in the game.
I had no idea that any of the things the Korean commentator talked about happened.
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Great read thanks for the translation. Really good analysis.
I was wondering why TOP didnt attack earlier. I was rooting for cool all along but i wonder if TOP pulled SCVs to repair his first thor and pushed out to attack as cool was teching and droning he might have taken the game.
TOP has a banshee a hellion and a couple of marines while Cool had only queen and drones. He would be able to produce lings but if micro'ed right i think TOP would have taken the game.
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On September 26 2010 12:52 Fa1nT wrote:Is this supposed to be sarcastic? Zerg won, when he was a mile behind, on a bad map, in bad position, vs one of, if not the best terran player in the world. Yeah.
Definitely sarcastic. Cool has been my favorite SC2 player for a while now.
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wow, this guy really seems to know what hes talking about. impressed
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Now THAT is an analysis. The games were awesome, I was jumping off my chair when Cool won. I have no idea how people could even think this was fixed...
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Just curious, is this the guy that Tastetosis said they were taking lessons at 300$ an hour from?
If that's true than hell yeah that is money well spent. Cos this guy seems to really really really know what he's talking about.
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On September 26 2010 15:02 Nightfall.589 wrote:
If Tasteless and Artosis could please, please, please, spend more time looking at bases, commenting on what is and what is not producing, we'd be able to get a much better picture of what's going on in the game.
I had no idea that any of the things the Korean commentator talked about happened.
Production tab and unit tab are up most of the game. If the production tab is up, they have no need to look around the base.
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wow, just wow, epic analysis, would've never thought that one simple gas-steal could end up being so extremely game-deciding
shows how much we all still have to learn about this game, I think everybody here was like "wtf how could fruitseller could come back from the harass" when in fact the terran had no real game-finishing options off only one gas
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On September 26 2010 06:43 AlBundy wrote:
Kind of off-topic but don't you think that it would be better if the observer was a third person? That way Tastosis could really concentrate on commentating instead of trying to look around the map for every detail.
that i think should be done
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Its amazing the huge depth in detail between Korean and Foreign speculation and in-depth analysis...
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On September 26 2010 16:33 john0507 wrote:
Just curious, is this the guy that Tastetosis said they were taking lessons at 300$ an hour from?
If that's true than hell yeah that is money well spent. Cos this guy seems to really really really know what he's talking about.
That's what we call "a joke". The money that is, I'm sure Tasteless is getting some free lessons from the official GOM observer, whoever that is.
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On September 26 2010 19:04 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 16:33 john0507 wrote:
Just curious, is this the guy that Tastetosis said they were taking lessons at 300$ an hour from?
If that's true than hell yeah that is money well spent. Cos this guy seems to really really really know what he's talking about. That's what we call "a joke". The money that is, I'm sure Tasteless is getting some free lessons from the official GOM observer, whoever that is.
What I can't understand though is why Tastosis don't just follow the Korean observer. When I say follow, I mean not even having an actual computer there... just a screen that shows exactly what the observer is seeing, so you still get the cursor and you don't get jittery camera movement. The Koreans get a dedicated observer, and from what I understand it's much easier for the casters to stay focused that way... why shouldn't Tastosis?
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I was talking to my friend about the game and told her that Cool is going to win if he doesn't die soon after the initial harassment. His play style is so incredibly fast that he even managed to do doubles of some buildings without noticing :D.
Now let's see how his team mates manage ...
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Thank you so much for the translation!
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imo, the biggest move that won the game for cool in the end, was the surround on the final thor push with his ultralisks... íf the ultralisks have come out only a few seconds later, he would have missed the chance for the surround and probably lost the game to that many thors, since they do extremely well vs ultras in a front to front fight.
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oGsTOP couldve at least tried to make use of the cliff behind the natural, especially with those positions.
Cool had NOTHING to defend a single Thor/Tank or some marines going up there, and since TOP didnt take his own natural there was nothing speaking against opening his side of the rocks there.
He also had his banshee living for ages, so with that and some small pressure squad he shouldve gotten enough scouting info to know that it was time to just go kill him basically from after the roach push.
Also 4 hellions are EASILY enough to kill 4 roaches, not even talking about that banshee.
And not killing the gas steal, well we all know that was just plain stupid
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Yes, I also find it funny that everyone blames the ultralisk bug. The fact is, Ultras are actually WEAKER vs. units. The only thing the bug does is give ridiculous splash when hitting building.
He had too many ultras anyway. I don't think anything could have stopped it.
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Had TOP microed his Ultras, or made 10-20 Marines with them and spread those out, he wouldve easily won against Cools Ultra count.
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On September 26 2010 22:31 ThE_ShiZ wrote:
Yes, I also find it funny that everyone blames the ultralisk bug. The fact is, Ultras are actually WEAKER vs. units. The only thing the bug does is give ridiculous splash when hitting building.
He had too many ultras anyway. I don't think anything could have stopped it.
As explained on pages 4 and 5, Ultralisk splash increases in size on both large units AND large buildings, based on unit size.
The unit part (makes them amazing vs Thors, etc) has been there since beta.
The buildings part was added in the patch (intentionally, mind you, they changed the attack...).
And apparently the buildings part is bugged according to Blizzard?
I fear that if they "unbug" Ultras against buildings by unchecking the "extend splash radius by unit size" option, Ultras are going to suck again versus mass Thors.
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On September 26 2010 23:15 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 22:31 ThE_ShiZ wrote:
Yes, I also find it funny that everyone blames the ultralisk bug. The fact is, Ultras are actually WEAKER vs. units. The only thing the bug does is give ridiculous splash when hitting building.
He had too many ultras anyway. I don't think anything could have stopped it. As explained on pages 4 and 5, Ultralisk splash increases in size on both large units AND large buildings, based on unit size. The unit part (makes them amazing vs Thors, etc) has been there since beta. The buildings part was added in the patch (intentionally, mind you, they changed the attack...). And apparently the buildings part is bugged according to Blizzard? I fear that if they "unbug" Ultras against buildings by unchecking the "extend splash radius by unit size" option, Ultras are going to suck again versus mass Thors.
The splash is not supposed to work on structures, that's what Blizzard said. Not that they were going to change the way the splash works. The reason it didn't work against structures before was because of "Ram", which was removed, and Ultralisks now use their normal attack against buildings, hence the massive splash radius. It's simply going to not work on buildings once they patch it.
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On September 26 2010 23:34 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 23:15 dcemuser wrote:On September 26 2010 22:31 ThE_ShiZ wrote:
Yes, I also find it funny that everyone blames the ultralisk bug. The fact is, Ultras are actually WEAKER vs. units. The only thing the bug does is give ridiculous splash when hitting building.
He had too many ultras anyway. I don't think anything could have stopped it. As explained on pages 4 and 5, Ultralisk splash increases in size on both large units AND large buildings, based on unit size. The unit part (makes them amazing vs Thors, etc) has been there since beta. The buildings part was added in the patch (intentionally, mind you, they changed the attack...). And apparently the buildings part is bugged according to Blizzard? I fear that if they "unbug" Ultras against buildings by unchecking the "extend splash radius by unit size" option, Ultras are going to suck again versus mass Thors. The splash is not supposed to work on structures, that's what Blizzard said. Not that they were going to change the way the splash works. The reason it didn't work against structures before was because of "Ram", which was removed, and Ultralisks now use their normal attack against buildings, hence the massive splash radius. It's simply going to not work on buildings once they patch it.
The removal of "Ram" was so that the Ultras WOULD have splash damage on structures.
From the situation report before patch 1.1: " When ultralisks target tightly packed smaller buildings such as supply depots, the Ram attack is actually outputting considerably less overall damage than its normal attack, as Ram only hits a single target."
They need to patch the radius from scaling that largely on buildings, but having a splash damage effect was definitely intended.
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On September 26 2010 05:47 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 02:53 AssuredVacancy wrote:
Wow I had no idea korean commentators possess this amount of sc knowledge to analyse the game this deeply. Makes me wish that I could understand korean commentary... thankfully they improved with sc2, in bw commentary they were completely rubbish.
you mean the gom commentators, right? not korean commentators in general?
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Match fixing? With this kind of pricepool waiting for the winner who would want to do that?
When i saw the game on live my mind was blown. As in i could not possibly concieve that A terran.
Oh wait. THE Possibly BEST TERRAN player IN THE WORLD would play on kulas ravine and proceed to throw away every advantage this map in particular outright hands to him. If i played terran i would watch that game in particular just to remind myself what not to do ;/
Cool does deserve to go on to the round of 8, he earned it with skill. Stuff like this is good, thats what makes sc2 interesting. Its a nice upset and i get to see more zerg in the round of 8.
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8748 Posts
On September 26 2010 19:28 MoNoNauT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 19:04 Eury wrote:On September 26 2010 16:33 john0507 wrote:
Just curious, is this the guy that Tastetosis said they were taking lessons at 300$ an hour from?
If that's true than hell yeah that is money well spent. Cos this guy seems to really really really know what he's talking about. That's what we call "a joke". The money that is, I'm sure Tasteless is getting some free lessons from the official GOM observer, whoever that is. What I can't understand though is why Tastosis don't just follow the Korean observer. When I say follow, I mean not even having an actual computer there... just a screen that shows exactly what the observer is seeing, so you still get the cursor and you don't get jittery camera movement. The Koreans get a dedicated observer, and from what I understand it's much easier for the casters to stay focused that way... why shouldn't Tastosis?
Interaction between observer and commentator is too important. What they really need is their own observer who understands English.
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On September 27 2010 03:03 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 19:28 MoNoNauT wrote:On September 26 2010 19:04 Eury wrote:On September 26 2010 16:33 john0507 wrote:
Just curious, is this the guy that Tastetosis said they were taking lessons at 300$ an hour from?
If that's true than hell yeah that is money well spent. Cos this guy seems to really really really know what he's talking about. That's what we call "a joke". The money that is, I'm sure Tasteless is getting some free lessons from the official GOM observer, whoever that is. What I can't understand though is why Tastosis don't just follow the Korean observer. When I say follow, I mean not even having an actual computer there... just a screen that shows exactly what the observer is seeing, so you still get the cursor and you don't get jittery camera movement. The Koreans get a dedicated observer, and from what I understand it's much easier for the casters to stay focused that way... why shouldn't Tastosis? Interaction between observer and commentator is too important. What they really need is their own observer who understands English.
Its not that Tasteless does a bad job of observing, its the fact that both of them are commentating at the same time which affects the observing. I'm quite confident that if Tasteless did not talk at all and only focused on the game he could observe flawlessly. However he is commentating and that is obviously distracting enough that he can't be 100% on-top of every little thing happening in the game - only the major ones. Quite often we see him missing small drops and such, that isn't because he doesn't know what to look for or how to observe, but that he is pre-occupied with commentary.
Tyler's idea here is probably the most accurate one. Tastosis should cast, and another third person (maybe an English-speaking Korean observer) does the observing. Now the observer wouldn't be forced to remain silent the entire cast, but the bulk of the casting would be done by Tastosis. If you look at the Korean commentary desk that can be seen sometimes there is always three people at it. My guess is one is a dedicated observer who only voices opinions occasionally.
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On September 27 2010 02:57 Madkipz wrote:
Match fixing? With this kind of pricepool waiting for the winner who would want to do that?
When i saw the game on live my mind was blown. As in i could not possibly concieve that A terran.
Oh wait. THE Possibly BEST TERRAN player IN THE WORLD would play on kulas ravine and proceed to throw away every advantage this map in particular outright hands to him. If i played terran i would watch that game in particular just to remind myself what not to do ;/
Cool does deserve to go on to the round of 8, he earned it with skill. Stuff like this is good, thats what makes sc2 interesting. Its a nice upset and i get to see more zerg in the round of 8.
If anything, it just proved that terrans that don't abuse broken maps can't win against equal skilled Z/P =/
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lol thats what we got in sc2 atm. terran loose a match to zerg and we need analysis to shut the match-fixing suspitions
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On September 27 2010 04:16 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 02:57 Madkipz wrote:
Match fixing? With this kind of pricepool waiting for the winner who would want to do that?
When i saw the game on live my mind was blown. As in i could not possibly concieve that A terran.
Oh wait. THE Possibly BEST TERRAN player IN THE WORLD would play on kulas ravine and proceed to throw away every advantage this map in particular outright hands to him. If i played terran i would watch that game in particular just to remind myself what not to do ;/
Cool does deserve to go on to the round of 8, he earned it with skill. Stuff like this is good, thats what makes sc2 interesting. Its a nice upset and i get to see more zerg in the round of 8.
If anything, it just proved that terrans that don't abuse broken maps can't win against equal skilled Z/P =/
Well to be fair to oGsTop , pre 1.1 patch (without the current bug) the end game wouldn't be so one sided , the fact that those Ultras ran through those PFs so so easily and the 20+ scvs there had to run, if it they were able to repair the PF the result at least wouldn't had been a one sided ending, but prolly a longer match overall.
Note that even Blizzard themselves said that this is a bug , Ultra should NOT deal splash dmg hitting buildings. So in your case of saying terrans abusing broken maps , zerg here just plain abused a blatant bug.
Tho I am happy that Cool got through to the last 8 , and most prolly will be the last zerg left.
Terrans already have other representatives going through (which Imo are at least on par, if not simply better than oGsTop).
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TOPs entire thor army was gone before Cool ever reached the fortresses, and he had 6+ ultra left, and full saturation on at least 3 bases. It was over.
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On September 27 2010 04:41 Fa1nT wrote:
TOPs entire thor army was gone before Cool ever reached the fortresses, and he had 6+ ultra left, and full saturation on at least 3 bases. It was over.
I'm saying Top was leading at that point , but the 5 ultras i think the number was , doesn't kill a PF , not even close actually.
Terran 2 saturated base with Mules isn't that far behind the zerg.
Cool would've still be leading , but the game would've dragged out quite a while longer than it did.
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On September 27 2010 04:37 john0507 wrote:Note that even Blizzard themselves said that this is a bug , Ultra should NOT deal splash dmg hitting buildings. So in your case of saying terrans abusing broken maps , zerg here just plain abused a blatant bug.
Actually ultras ARE supposed to be cleaving buildings now to kill repairing SCVS, except not 6 range long due to the command centers being so large. Once it's fixed the cleave will most likely be closer to the ultras or on one side and even then, 5 ultras is enough to cover an entire area around CC so this is really not abusing a single thing.
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On September 27 2010 05:04 john0507 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 04:41 Fa1nT wrote:
TOPs entire thor army was gone before Cool ever reached the fortresses, and he had 6+ ultra left, and full saturation on at least 3 bases. It was over. I'm saying Top was leading at that point , but the 5 ultras i think the number was , doesn't kill a PF , not even close actually. Terran 2 saturated base with Mules isn't that far behind the zerg. Cool would've still be leading , but the game would've dragged out quite a while longer than it did.
You're not making any sense. Neither was TOP leading, nor do 5 ultras lose to a PF. Besides, Cool kept TOP busy nonstop. (Have you actually watched the game?!)
This series was definitely the most awesome series of the entire GSL, and I watched pretty much all of it. The closest game, the most amazing control... Cool played Zerg on the highest level I have ever seen a Zerg play. Check won some ZvT with weird builds and lol moments (and nice skills of course), but Cool showed genuine game sense in his games 1+3. Game 1 was just perfectly executed and he won a major gamble in game 3. Nothing strange about that imo.
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Ultra bug had me ROFLing in these matches.
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On September 26 2010 12:52 Fa1nT wrote:Is this supposed to be sarcastic? Zerg won, when he was a mile behind, on a bad map, in bad position, vs one of, if not the best terran player in the world. Yeah.
I find it funny that probably no-one had ever heard of oGsTOP before and when Tastosis mentioned he was sort of the best in the oGs inhouse rankings everyone suddenly claims he's the best Terran in the world, which he isn't.
If you had read the analysis you would know Zerg wasn't as far behind as seemed through the standard casting. The map itself wasn't so bad since TOP wasn't "abusing" it as some Terrans will. So how was Cool in a bad position?
Claiming it was match-fixing is ridiculous. Players win because they did things better than their opponent. Calling every recovery in games/ sports etc. matchfixing is just silly.
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On September 27 2010 05:25 steamrice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 04:37 john0507 wrote:Note that even Blizzard themselves said that this is a bug , Ultra should NOT deal splash dmg hitting buildings. So in your case of saying terrans abusing broken maps , zerg here just plain abused a blatant bug. Actually ultras ARE supposed to be cleaving buildings now to kill repairing SCVS, except not 6 range long due to the command centers being so large. Once it's fixed the cleave will most likely be closer to the ultras or on one side and even then, 5 ultras is enough to cover an entire area around CC so this is really not abusing a single thing.
This, the bug is just the AoE increasing with target size. Once the cleave is fixed 5-6 ultras will still ruin a PF and the scvs if they try to repair. On the other hand 1-2 ultras won't instantly kill all the scvs anymore.
I do not think Cool won because of the bug though. By the point it occurred he was up 2-3 bases and had a ton of ultras against a Terran player who just spammed thors and got them surrounded several times. Ultras are supposed to wreck stacked armor with a surround, they are supposed to destroy PFs and Cool had not only an amazing number of them (due to outmacroing his opponent) but controlled them very well (including drops).
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Wow the Korean dude is SMART :O
I actually watched this game live at the GSL, it was amazing.
Tasteless and Artosis, you guys are classy, awesome people as well. Awesome experience.
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On September 27 2010 05:04 john0507 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 04:41 Fa1nT wrote:
TOPs entire thor army was gone before Cool ever reached the fortresses, and he had 6+ ultra left, and full saturation on at least 3 bases. It was over. I'm saying Top was leading at that point , but the 5 ultras i think the number was , doesn't kill a PF , not even close actually. Terran 2 saturated base with Mules isn't that far behind the zerg. Cool would've still be leading , but the game would've dragged out quite a while longer than it did.
Why shouldn't 5 ultras, 1500/1000/30 worth of units, not kill a PF? If you honestly believe that this is true, then you have some terrible bias for terrans.
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On September 27 2010 04:37 john0507 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 04:16 Fa1nT wrote:On September 27 2010 02:57 Madkipz wrote:
Match fixing? With this kind of pricepool waiting for the winner who would want to do that?
When i saw the game on live my mind was blown. As in i could not possibly concieve that A terran.
Oh wait. THE Possibly BEST TERRAN player IN THE WORLD would play on kulas ravine and proceed to throw away every advantage this map in particular outright hands to him. If i played terran i would watch that game in particular just to remind myself what not to do ;/
Cool does deserve to go on to the round of 8, he earned it with skill. Stuff like this is good, thats what makes sc2 interesting. Its a nice upset and i get to see more zerg in the round of 8.
If anything, it just proved that terrans that don't abuse broken maps can't win against equal skilled Z/P =/ Well to be fair to oGsTop , pre 1.1 patch (without the current bug) the end game wouldn't be so one sided , the fact that those Ultras ran through those PFs so so easily and the 20+ scvs there had to run, if it they were able to repair the PF the result at least wouldn't had been a one sided ending, but prolly a longer match overall. Note that even Blizzard themselves said that this is a bug , Ultra should NOT deal splash dmg hitting buildings. So in your case of saying terrans abusing broken maps , zerg here just plain abused a blatant bug. Tho I am happy that Cool got through to the last 8 , and most prolly will be the last zerg left. Terrans already have other representatives going through (which Imo are at least on par, if not simply better than oGsTop).
Prepatch the Ultras would have done much more damage to the Thors. This would have more than offset the lack of splash on the planetary fortress. Read the patch notes if you are going to comment on them.
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On September 27 2010 08:33 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 12:52 Fa1nT wrote:On September 26 2010 12:25 mierin wrote:
Zerg won?? OMGmatchfixing Is this supposed to be sarcastic? Zerg won, when he was a mile behind, on a bad map, in bad position, vs one of, if not the best terran player in the world. Yeah. I find it funny that probably no-one had ever heard of oGsTOP before and when Tastosis mentioned he was sort of the best in the oGs inhouse rankings everyone suddenly claims he's the best Terran in the world, which he isn't. If you had read the analysis you would know Zerg wasn't as far behind as seemed through the standard casting. The map itself wasn't so bad since TOP wasn't "abusing" it as some Terrans will. So how was Cool in a bad position? Claiming it was match-fixing is ridiculous. Players win because they did things better than their opponent. Calling every recovery in games/ sports etc. matchfixing is just silly.
Yea you are right but when the guy was presented to me by commentators as a very good player you kind of expect something that isnt hellion into failbanshee into mass thor.
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I was kinda doubtful after watching the game, but this analysis seems to be very well done. Great game by Cool for sure.
About the Ultra "bug"... As the OP's translation said, There were enough Ultras in that game and Cool had enough of an economical advantage where it wouldn't have mattered if the Ultras had the range "bug" or not.
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that game looks soooo one sided once the ultras were out XD
but b4 that neither top nor cool were making that many units. so happens cool was better at harassment. Like the commentator said. he was just better at playing mind games. The game totally looks legit to me.
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I almost didn't mention this, but when I watched this game I felt at random that the game might be rigged. Nothing specific, just a feeling. I brushed it aside quite quickly but at the same time... No other game gave me that vibe... I guess i am saying I understand it has been brought up. On the other hand the other games was fine etc so yeah.
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On September 27 2010 06:35 DooMDash wrote:
Ultra bug had me ROFLing in these matches.
Why? It came into play once, when it splashed a couple of marines.
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Good analysis ?
He must have miss the part hat top massed thors vs ultras without bothering to change tactics like ever ... twice ...
Or the point whereas cool has 0 army and top didnt atack
Or when cool had 92 drones and 2 rwarrens and 2 baneling nests and so many other things.
ps after tester cool and intotheR left ogs ensnare is by far the best player over there terms of results top isnt even close enough and the gsl games proves this.
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I'm pretty surprised to find out there were complaints about this particular game, makes me kind of sad. Thanks for the clarification nonetheless.
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I also find the analysis very flawed, and even though it does not make sense to fix that game, since a Terran player has way better chances to advance far into the tournament (and therefore, financial incentives would be weird) this game did look so very very weird, it is beyond me.
Maybe TOP was super nervous, maybe he lost on purpose, but this game was not for cool to win at any point, and if cool plays like this he will not make it much further.
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So can anyone tell me how the GSL rules work? Are players really expected to just not use ultras vs. buildings because it is abusing a bug?
On another note, this series was worth the $20 alone.
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Ty for analysis, it was a great series to watch and it never even crossed my mine it could be a fix.
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On September 27 2010 04:37 john0507 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 04:16 Fa1nT wrote:On September 27 2010 02:57 Madkipz wrote:
Match fixing? With this kind of pricepool waiting for the winner who would want to do that?
When i saw the game on live my mind was blown. As in i could not possibly concieve that A terran.
Oh wait. THE Possibly BEST TERRAN player IN THE WORLD would play on kulas ravine and proceed to throw away every advantage this map in particular outright hands to him. If i played terran i would watch that game in particular just to remind myself what not to do ;/
Cool does deserve to go on to the round of 8, he earned it with skill. Stuff like this is good, thats what makes sc2 interesting. Its a nice upset and i get to see more zerg in the round of 8.
If anything, it just proved that terrans that don't abuse broken maps can't win against equal skilled Z/P =/ Well to be fair to oGsTop , pre 1.1 patch (without the current bug) the end game wouldn't be so one sided , the fact that those Ultras ran through those PFs so so easily and the 20+ scvs there had to run, if it they were able to repair the PF the result at least wouldn't had been a one sided ending, but prolly a longer match overall. Note that even Blizzard themselves said that this is a bug , Ultra should NOT deal splash dmg hitting buildings. So in your case of saying terrans abusing broken maps , zerg here just plain abused a blatant bug. Tho I am happy that Cool got through to the last 8 , and most prolly will be the last zerg left. Terrans already have other representatives going through (which Imo are at least on par, if not simply better than oGsTop).
Unfortunately you didn't see that the Ultras did most damage on the Thors, which the bug has no effect on. His upgraded Ultras smashed all the Thors while his Banelings did the damage to the Mineral lines.
You should also note - Blizzard intended for Ultras to do splash while attacking buildings to remove nearby repairing SCVs, that's why they removed the Ram ability.
Before you actually post something like that, you should really do a bit more research.
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Why fix the 3rd game? Fruitseller was already 2-0 up and if anything the first 2 games must have been fixed too, since no point in fixing only 1 game and the third in a row no less.
Also its a 85.000dollars check, its not like some1 is going to make more in some online betting site and not least of all on a 3rd game in a best of 7.
I've watched the games and I'm certain that game 3 wasn't fixed. If anything game 2 looked more fixed.
Fixing on the first major tournament on the new SC2, with all the fuss around BW match fixing still going on would be plain stupid.
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EPT
