• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:24
CEST 01:24
KST 08:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 20265Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th156
StarCraft 2
General
RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 2026 TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
Where is EffOrt? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10683 users

Official GSL commentator's thoughts on GSL Game #3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
LuciferSC
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada535 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 17:50:57
September 25 2010 17:15 GMT
#1
Chae Jung Won, a commentator at GSL recently spoke regarding game #3 between Fruitseller and oGsTop.

I decided to translate this because many people were being suspicious of a match-fixing between Fruitseller and oGsTop. (this may be more so in Korean communities).

Hopefully this wil settle any disputes regarding that game.
Enjoy!

Original post:
http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?m=community&msgid=896&c=all&p=1
(Korean website)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There are numerous debates regarding yesterday's match between Fruitseller and oGsTop.

First people are talking about the ultralisk bug. Even though Fruitseller used ultralisk to win game 1 and 3, anyone who has been with the starcraft scene for a while would know that Fruitseller could not lose with that many ultralisks, regardless of the bug. Even though there were a lot of thors, 250mm cannon cannot stun ultralisks and were much smaller in number.

Another argument is that the match was fixed by the 2 progamers. As someone who has been with Esports for 10 years and watched it grow, it pains me to see people watch an epic come-back game and immediately theorize that the match must have been fixed. If you saw Fruitseller being ecstatic with joy after the match or oGsTop coming out of his booth covered with sweat, one could not argue that it was a fixed match.

Now I'll go over game 3 piece by piece. I realized that I had overlooked many finer points when I watched replay of the game. We'll see how the game seemed to have turned around all-of-a-sudden.

Simply put, Zerg turned the game around much earlier than what we think.

[image loading]

This is when 2 helions are coming out of a factory with reactor add on. It's 4:53 according to the in-game clock just above minimap.

At this point, Fruitseller had his roach warren 80% complete.
More importantly, he did gas rush against terran.
(I'll explain further in bottom, but this was the key move of the game)

[image loading]

This shows oGsTop constructing a command center after killing 7 drones with 4 helions.
Fruitseller's gas rush is still there. In other words, Terran's playing on 1 gas.
The textbook playstyle would have had oGsTop make 2 starports making cloacked banshee following 4 helion push to finish the game. This is a strat that has very high win ratio in kulas ravine.
Zerg has no choice but to stop 4 helion rush with roach, and the zerg who spent more than 100 gas on roach is gonna be late getting laire upgrade. With late laire upgrade, there is no way to stop the cloaked banshee when it comes.
However with the gas rush oGsTop could not build 2 starports and while he has no gas, he has a surplus of 400 minerals.

At this point, he has to choose between the two:
1. Construct a command center and prepare for a management game
2. Construct 2-3 barracks and do a timed push

oGsTop decides to go for management game and builds a command center.
In my opinion, this was his mistake.
(One could argue why he has to wait 400 minerals before building barracks instead of making 'em one at a time. However if you take a look at the game, Terran cannot build more barracks if he has no assurance that 4 helion push is going to deliver a big hit to Zerg. As an example, many would've seen situations where zerg makes drones instead of reinforcements when he got into your base with zergling rush. This is because the zerg was not sure of the rush's effectiveness. If terran knew that 4 helion rush was gonna do big damage, building barrack is the correct choice. However most players tend to assess the situation before deciding their next move. At that point, oGsTop already had more than 400 minerals.)

[image loading]

Now Fruitseller is pushing with 4 roaches following the helion rush.

Even though oGsTop did a successful harassment, he doesn't have enough gas and has next to no units as he is making a command center.

He only has helions and 1 marine to fend off roaches. That of course isn't enough units to stop roaches. The roaches were already turning the corner at that point.
(it seems that oGsTop lost a few practice games to oGsZenio who did a roach all-in push at this point of game)

At this point, Zerg has 19 drones. Even though he took a hit, he is already recovering. Also, he's done building roaches which take up gas, all 19 drones are mining minerals. In other words, mineral income is about the same for Terran and Zerg at this point.

[image loading]

1st banshee is coming out. Comes out around 7th minute mark. Top's original plan would've been to do worker harass with the first banshee, and build 1-2 mauraders to stop the roach rush. However if you take a look at the minimap, zerg's gas rush is still in Terran's main base. As oGsTop is lacking gas, he cannot build mauraders following tech addon nor can he do cloaking upgrade.

oGsTop's banshee does not goto zerg's base but gets used to stop 4 roach push.
(From oGsTop's position he could be thinking that there could be more roaches coming on top of the 4 that are already on their way. The reason for that is oGsZenith....)

If you are to take a look at the income tab, their mineral income is about equal. Even though Terran's harvesting more gas, zerg does not require any gas at this point. (ain't producing any units that need gas) Therefore the actual income rate is the same.

At this point the only advantage oGsTop has is that he has higher tech.

[image loading]

In-game clock shows 8:40.

Banshee gets 5 drones at Fruitseller's base, and comes back to stop the roach push.
Even though oGsTop took down zerg's gas extractor he is still short of gas.
He puts all his gases to produce a thor and mech attack +1 upgrade.

Since he still has a surplus of minerals left over, he makes another command center.
(oGsTop felt that he is still on top, so he would've been confident that he couldn't lose in a management game. Any Terran would feel that way)

But is Terran really out on top at this point?

[image loading]

Take another look at income tab.
Now oGsTop is confident that he could not lose with his economic and tech advantage in a late-game.
This is 9 seconds after him beginning to build his 2nd additional command center.
8:49 - Zerg is getting 1080 mineral income and Terran is getting 780 mineral income.
Zerg now begins to harvest gas as well.
Zerg has higher worker count at 30 : 28.

oGsTop anticipated roach reinforcements, but Fruitseller was putting all his larvaes to drones.
He did a defensive all-in instead of doing an offensive one and it worked out splendidly.
oGsTop was in an advantageous point up to 7:01, but just in 1 minute and 49 seconds of game time, Fruitseller got ahead economically.
His mind-game worked to his advantage.
I only realized this after 1 minute has passed in the live game.
I apologize for that.

However Zerg is still behind in production capabilities and tech.

[image loading]

Game time at 10:24 mark.

Now Zerg is not behind anymore.

He has Lair tech up as well as having roach warren, and is getting armor upgrade.
Terran still only has 1 Thor and is about to get 2nd Thor come out.
His production capability is relatively weak.
He has 1 factory + tech addon, 1 starport with reactor addon and 1 barrack.

At this point, Zerg is ahead in both economy and production capability.
This is a complete come-back by Zerg.

After this everything works out as Fruitseller plans.
He gets to Hive without any problem and beings producing Ultralisks.
He was the most vulnerable when during his hive timing, but he bought time with burrowed baneling trap and baneling drop.
Because he played the game with the minimal amount of units, he was able to get a large number of ultralisks following Hive upgrade.
oGsTop was behind in population and unit mix at this point. (it is not due to the ultralisk bug).

Once again I'd like to thank Fruitseller and oGsTop who showed a great come-back game.
Also I'd like to wish that everyone would enjoy GSL without any misunderstanding.

Thank you!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come get some
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9047 Posts
September 25 2010 17:21 GMT
#2
This is stupid... If they want to match fix they can just do 1 rax vs 6 pool or smt. Why bother playing a long ass game???
And there's like no reason to match fix at all, especially when the BW scandal hasn't faded away yet.
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
September 25 2010 17:21 GMT
#3
thanks for the translation king, this is really revealing as I also wondered why top didn't just attack following the hellions. i never even noticed the gas steal was still there.
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
Endorsed
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands1221 Posts
September 25 2010 17:21 GMT
#4
That sounds like an amazing game. I want to see

Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2959 Posts
September 25 2010 17:22 GMT
#5
Well how could someone possibly say Cool won because of the splash damage "bug" against buildings.
I mean the splash damage against units is still the same as before if I'm not mistaken and it scaled with the unit size since ever (which I'd probably consider bad, but it was like this from the beginning).

I mean by the time Cool dropped his Ultralisks to the one expansion he had SUCH a huge advantage already...
WrathBringerReturns said: No no no. Sarcasm is detected in the voice. When this forum is riddled with stupidity, you think I can tell every post apart? Fair enough it was intended sarcastically, was it obvious? Of course not.
LuciferSC
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada535 Posts
September 25 2010 17:23 GMT
#6
Antoine - Now you know what I've been up to this morning. lol

I too was rather suspicious of the game.. that's why I decided to translate it.
Come get some
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
September 25 2010 17:24 GMT
#7
Thanks for the translation.
Definitely a good analysis, even though I didn't ever consider there could be match fixing.

It was more a case of obvious (from the outside) bad decision making from Top more than anything. He didn't put on pressure and Cool took advantage of that.
HOLY CHECK!
theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
September 25 2010 17:24 GMT
#8
Thanks for the post. Really good info here!
TheFinalWord
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia790 Posts
September 25 2010 17:26 GMT
#9
Wow this is very interesting, whats more it was pretty obvious fruitseller had the advantage when he smashed all those thors and the bug has nothing to do with ultralisks vs units.
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
September 25 2010 17:26 GMT
#10
Thanks for the translation, great analysis. Cool played amazingly well, people who speak of match-fixing or the Ultra bug should get a slap on the back of the head
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2959 Posts
September 25 2010 17:31 GMT
#11
Also, what else would you do as Zerg now if you cannot even go Ultras anymore duo to the "bug abuse". 15 Broodlords? ;P
Shit, a viking has been sighted!
WrathBringerReturns said: No no no. Sarcasm is detected in the voice. When this forum is riddled with stupidity, you think I can tell every post apart? Fair enough it was intended sarcastically, was it obvious? Of course not.
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
September 25 2010 17:34 GMT
#12
On September 26 2010 02:26 TheFinalWord wrote:
Wow this is very interesting, whats more it was pretty obvious fruitseller had the advantage when he smashed all those thors and the bug has nothing to do with ultralisks vs units.


Very true. What really killed it was the thors getting caught in the exact wrong place and surrounded totally by the ultras.
I'm not sure you could ever plan for that to happen if you were trying to fix a match.

"Hey, walk all your thors into my base just as I get ultras, and position them near by hatchery in my natural, and then I will surround them and lock them in place with two groups of ultralisks".
HOLY CHECK!
Looky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1608 Posts
September 25 2010 17:34 GMT
#13
those drops were amazing to watch xP
DreamScaR
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada2127 Posts
September 25 2010 17:38 GMT
#14
Awesome read, the thought of someone throwing the game never crossed my mind. I didn't think Cool had taken the advantage back that early, it was probably about the 10:30 mark I noticed that Cool was jumping way ahead.

+1 to you sir!
~ Aka ItsWoodrow on Twitter
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
September 25 2010 17:38 GMT
#15
Holy crap, GREAT op, thanks a bunch. Just the kind of content that makes this community so great.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
BCH
Profile Joined September 2010
Philippines88 Posts
September 25 2010 17:40 GMT
#16
aww from what i've read. seemed that he was screwed by the gas steal.
giggity...
JQL
Profile Joined July 2010
United States214 Posts
September 25 2010 17:43 GMT
#17
very top notch analysis, had no idea that TOP's gas was stolen for so long.
no way
Wunder
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2950 Posts
September 25 2010 17:45 GMT
#18
Wow, great work in translating this, it really provided good insight into this amazing game, probably the best game and best series so far. Good job!
Writer@joonjoewong
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
September 25 2010 17:46 GMT
#19
And who would've thought stealing gas is such an important aspect of the game
Next time Zergs will gas steal all the time
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
akomatic
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
156 Posts
September 25 2010 17:47 GMT
#20
Great analysis, great game. Chae Jung Won sounded very demanding on himself to provide a full and accurate account of the game.

On a side note, this play-by-play makes it sound like Cool and Check will require routine brilliance and flawless play to continue advancing.
..Bears!
1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 36m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech72
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 377
Dota 2
monkeys_forever194
NeuroSwarm82
LuMiX1
Super Smash Bros
PPMD50
Other Games
summit1g11869
Grubby3077
shahzam685
C9.Mang0485
PiGStarcraft312
FrodaN255
Trikslyr176
ROOTCatZ99
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream2753
Other Games
gamesdonequick586
BasetradeTV138
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 82
• StrangeGG 56
• RyuSc2 34
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21426
Other Games
• imaqtpie917
Upcoming Events
OSC
36m
ByuN vs Shameless
PiGosaur Cup
1d
Replay Cast
1d 9h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
GSL
4 days
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
5 days
[ Show More ]
Patches Events
5 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Proleague 2026-06-15
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.