EPT[Trick] Early Game +7% Mineral Boost - Page 21
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juw
76 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Since this stops being useful at saturation, it's only an early game mechanic, and a highly demanding one at that. I think this should be left the way it is, early game people just spam uselessly and this way they can spam usefully. i'm curious why people think this is only useful in the early game. obviously, it will be viable for mules throughout, but it will also be just as useful any time you take an expansion, or any time you lose enough workers to badly desaturate your base. i mean, obviously the apm requirements to keep it up while doing other things will be through the roof... but there have been BW pros with well over 500 apm. JulyZerg, who just switched to SC2, regularly clocked in at significantly higher than that. for such players, it isn't inconceivable that they could simultaneously mineral boost or sockfold or whatever we're calling it, while still performing ordinary marco/micro. if so, 7% is a potentially fairly significant boost, if it applies to more than just the first few minutes of the game. Instead of getting you like 50 minerals you might not have had otherwise, it could, over the course of the game, get you more like a few hundred minerals you might not have had. Which is substantial in a game where people are doing everything they can to get an edge. | ||
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SiNiquity
United States734 Posts
How this trick works Workers in the game go through 7 stages cyclically (that is, at the end of stage 7 the worker proceeds to stage 1) when harvesting resources. This is straight from the Galaxy Editor:
At the beginning of stage 4, the "Gather" ability changes into the "Return Cargo" ability, as the unit now has cargo in its possession. Thus by spamming C / Right-click repeatedly into the worker's action queue, one can skip stage 4 and jump immediately to stage 5. Theory does not lie. This technique works. However, as a result, it will not work for gas. Finally, I don't anticipate this will get patched. The only possible fixes I can imagine would involve either making the worker uncommandable during stage (unlikely; would make workers seem unresponsive in some instances), or delaying the "return cargo" icon until stage 5. However, in the latter case one could queue a move immediately after the harvest and then queue 'C' which would make the technique more difficult but not eliminate it entirely. TL;DR: It works. Game on. | ||
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Gnax
Sweden490 Posts
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Dox
Australia1199 Posts
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SiNiquity
United States734 Posts
As a result, because you are shaving off at most 0.5 seconds from the resource harvest time, your relative income increase for this trick is 0.5 / H where H is the regular harvest time. This varies from 6.5 to 7 game seconds IIRC (I don't have the data in front of me at the moment), meaning you should see a 7 - 7.7% income increase, with closer mineral patches receiving more benefit. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On September 13 2010 10:20 awesomoecalypse wrote: i'm curious why people think this is only useful in the early game. obviously, it will be viable for mules throughout, but it will also be just as useful any time you take an expansion, or any time you lose enough workers to badly desaturate your base. i mean, obviously the apm requirements to keep it up while doing other things will be through the roof... but there have been BW pros with well over 500 apm. JulyZerg, who just switched to SC2, regularly clocked in at significantly higher than that. for such players, it isn't inconceivable that they could simultaneously mineral boost or sockfold or whatever we're calling it, while still performing ordinary marco/micro. if so, 7% is a potentially fairly significant boost, if it applies to more than just the first few minutes of the game. Instead of getting you like 50 minerals you might not have had otherwise, it could, over the course of the game, get you more like a few hundred minerals you might not have had. Which is substantial in a game where people are doing everything they can to get an edge. The fact that it would require hundreds of APM to do in addition to regular micro/macro makes it a non-issue for most players. If only the most mechanically skilled can use it, and they mostly only play against each other, then it doesn't matter for everyone else. Slow players can try it and lose because they'll slip up on regular macro or micro. This is no different than Vulture and Mutalisk micro, it merely cuts down on turn animation speed, and should remain in the game. | ||
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TitleRug
United States651 Posts
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On September 13 2010 10:29 TitleRug wrote: Hey on Trump's stream the name the "7% trick/build" is sticking. 7% build makes no sense because this isn't a build. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On September 13 2010 10:23 SiNiquity wrote: Having done a ton of research on worker mechanics in this game, and since I haven't seen a full explanation of this technique, allow me to explain the game mechanics behind it. How this trick works Workers in the game go through 7 stages cyclically (that is, at the end of stage 7 the worker proceeds to stage 1) when harvesting resources. This is straight from the Galaxy Editor:
At the beginning of stage 4, the "Gather" ability changes into the "Return Cargo" ability, as the unit now has cargo in its possession. Thus by spamming C / Right-click repeatedly into the worker's action queue, one can skip stage 4 and jump immediately to stage 5. Theory does not lie. This technique works. However, as a result, it will not work for gas. Finally, I don't anticipate this will get patched. The only possible fixes I can imagine would involve either making the worker uncommandable during stage (unlikely; would make workers seem unresponsive in some instances), or delaying the "return cargo" icon until stage 5. However, in the latter case one could queue a move immediately after the harvest and then queue 'C' which would make the technique more difficult but not eliminate it entirely. TL;DR: It works. Game on. does this mean that you could edit the workers in the editor to remove/fix/change/alter this trick/exploit/mechanic so that it was useless? I.E. could you change the N value to 0 form .5? | ||
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Cofo
United States1388 Posts
On September 13 2010 10:29 TitleRug wrote: Hey on Trump's stream the name the "7% trick/build" is sticking. I liked "folding" as a name. The technique actually resembles a folding action, and it also gives credit to the OP. | ||
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Riot Janook
United States112 Posts
I did some tests using this Boosted Gathering technique. Using boosted gathering, I am able to build an Orbital Command at 2:33. The build I use is 10 supply, 12 rax, 13 refinery. If you can build it faster, with or without using BG, let me know! I did not do this perfectly, I have some SCV overlap as you will see. Once I iron those kinks out I believe I can get the time down to 2:31 or maybe even 2:30. Replay: http://www.2shared.com/file/F6fcofHt/Boosted_Gathering_OC_233.html | ||
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ZodiakLucien
United States14 Posts
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Civzero
Canada14 Posts
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carebear91
Singapore236 Posts
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SiNiquity
United States734 Posts
On September 13 2010 10:33 jrkirby wrote: does this mean that you could edit the workers in the editor to remove/fix/change/alter this trick/exploit/mechanic so that it was useless? I.E. could you change the N value to 0 form .5? Heh, figures I missed the obvious. Yes you could change N to 0 and increase the Harvest Time by 0.5 seconds and the technique would go away completely without altering the game. However I am still doubtful Blizzard will patch this. If anything, Blizzard put it into the game deliberately ~ why else would they build an arbitrary "Wait to return cargo" stage where the worker literally does nothing? I've always thought it was pretty stupid, but just assumed it was a necessary evil in my calculations. Wish I'd thought of this technique  | ||
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Peleus
Australia420 Posts
It's absolutely awesome. | ||
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leviathan20
United Kingdom193 Posts
On September 13 2010 10:29 TitleRug wrote: Hey on Trump's stream the name the "7% trick/build" is sticking. lol Trump was focusing so hard on doing this that he forgot to wall off against Zerg... :p Luckily didn't cost him anything, but does show that you can put too much effort into this. He is still getting used to it tho I guess, and it did give his MULEs an extra trip. | ||
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dolpiff
France300 Posts
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shirogane
Canada4 Posts
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