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[Trick] Early Game +7% Mineral Boost - Page 22

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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CauthonLuck
Profile Joined July 2009
United States93 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 01:56:21
September 13 2010 01:53 GMT
#421
Hope this stays, requires a huge concentration/apm investment for a small return, but in the early game, there's not much else to do anyways. To those who may be over reacting a touch upon seeing the "7% increase," be sure to try it out for yourself. While this is easy to pull off on a few workers while concentrating on nothing else, if you attempt this while keeping up your normal build/scouting patterns etc, the benefit is nowhere near 7%.

At the point where you are 2-3 minutes into the game, if you keep this up even while doing the rest of your build perfectly, you'll find it's extremely difficult to keep the "mining buff" on more than a couple workers at once, especially once they start doubling up on patches and doing the mining buff on the wrong scvs can cause additional wandering time between patches.

In reality, it's more like a 1-2% buff if done well once you're more than a minute into the game, and
for the concentration/apm investment, especially considering buffing the wrong worker and forcing wander time, or forgetting about a depot/pylon, or losing your scout while microing your workers can nullify any of those gains in an instant, I don't think this is something that needs to be patched.

As others have said, similar mechanics have existed in both bw and war3. This technique may have a potentially higher gain, but it also has an impossibly high skill ceiling to reap more than a fraction of that potential in a real game situation.

Edit: I wouldn't mind a "cap" of 9 trips on a mule, where it's instantly destroyed once it reaches that number if people feel this would be an unfair advantage for T.
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 01:58:19
September 13 2010 01:55 GMT
#422
Now for the most important question:

Poll: What should the technique me named

(sock)folding (197)
 
76%

Mineral Boosting (56)
 
22%

Other (4)
 
2%

7% Trick (2)
 
1%

259 total votes

Your vote: What should the technique me named

(Vote): (sock)folding
(Vote): Mineral Boosting
(Vote): 7% Trick
(Vote): Other



Edit: fucking typo.

"What should the technique be named?"
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
September 13 2010 01:56 GMT
#423
Great find and great video made to show how it works. I will give plus one to "the folding method." I wonder how this effects the dynamics of the game, should be interesting.
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 13 2010 01:57 GMT
#424
Don't rename the thing, the nerd nerdy enough to find the technique gets to name it, we all know this.

But seriously, why didn't you just tell Idra and TLO and then wait till the GSL was over to post.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
GogoKodo
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Canada1785 Posts
September 13 2010 02:00 GMT
#425
On September 13 2010 10:55 Whole wrote:
Now for the most important question:

Poll: What should the technique me named

(sock)folding (197)
 
76%

Mineral Boosting (56)
 
22%

Other (4)
 
2%

7% Trick (2)
 
1%

259 total votes

Your vote: What should the technique me named

(Vote): (sock)folding
(Vote): Mineral Boosting
(Vote): 7% Trick
(Vote): Other



Edit: fucking typo.

"What should the technique be named?"

I gotta go with "folding", sounds a little less weird than "sockfolding". And it kind sorta makes a tiny bit of sense to the technique.
twitter: @terrancem
Riot Janook
Profile Joined August 2010
United States112 Posts
September 13 2010 02:01 GMT
#426
Something to add to my original post:

I did some tests using this Boosted Gathering technique.

Using boosted gathering, I am able to build an Orbital Command at 2:33.
The build I use is 10 supply, 12 rax, 13 refinery.

If you can build it faster, with or without using BG, let me know!
I did not do this perfectly, I have some SCV overlap as you will see. Once I iron those kinks out I believe I can get the time down to 2:31 or maybe even 2:30.

Replay: http://www.2shared.com/file/F6fcofHt/Boosted_Gathering_OC_233.html

Additionally, here is a replay of me using BG to get 10 trips out of a MULE.
http://www.2shared.com/file/_sMptD0u/Boosted_Gathering_10_MULE_trip.html
gogogadgetflow
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2583 Posts
September 13 2010 02:03 GMT
#427
On September 13 2010 10:55 Whole wrote:
Now for the most important question:

Poll: What should the technique me named

(sock)folding (197)
 
76%

Mineral Boosting (56)
 
22%

Other (4)
 
2%

7% Trick (2)
 
1%

259 total votes

Your vote: What should the technique me named

(Vote): (sock)folding
(Vote): Mineral Boosting
(Vote): 7% Trick
(Vote): Other



Edit: fucking typo.

"What should the technique be named?"


it should be called (sockfolder) mineral boosting

We should avoid calling it the 7% trick for now because I don't think it's been proven that it will cause a 7% increase in return in all situations.
QuothTheRaven
Profile Joined December 2008
United States5524 Posts
September 13 2010 02:05 GMT
#428
I like calling it folding.
. . . nevermore
carwashguy
Profile Joined June 2009
United States175 Posts
September 13 2010 02:05 GMT
#429
I hope Blizzard eliminates that "hang time" so everyone doesn't have to waste energy doing this mind-numbingly repetitive move.

BTW, stay away from the term "mineral boosting." Don't want to mix that up with "boosting" (chrono boosting).
nayumi
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia6499 Posts
September 13 2010 02:07 GMT
#430
lol now the Koreans have something to do with their extra 150 apm ...
Sugoi monogatari onii-chan!
Gustav_Wind
Profile Joined July 2008
United States646 Posts
September 13 2010 02:08 GMT
#431
On September 13 2010 10:20 awesomoecalypse wrote:
i'm curious why people think this is only useful in the early game. obviously, it will be viable for mules throughout, but it will also be just as useful any time you take an expansion, or any time you lose enough workers to badly desaturate your base.

i mean, obviously the apm requirements to keep it up while doing other things will be through the roof...

but there have been BW pros with well over 500 apm. JulyZerg, who just switched to SC2, regularly clocked in at significantly higher than that.


I'm pretty sure in BW the highest apm is achieved when doing a task with almost no multitasking involved, i.e. extensive muta micro. When games go longer and there is more multitasking wise to do APM inevitably drops.

Nobody in BW consistently approached the limit to micro/multitasking well in big games, and as long as that's the case the gains that can be made by devoting attention to micro/regular macro will always far outstrip the tiny gain you can get from this. This trick is relevant only in the early game.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
September 13 2010 02:13 GMT
#432
The highest APM was from July Zerg of 800+ APM. But July is awesome and most people are not as awesome as July.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 13 2010 02:13 GMT
#433
On September 13 2010 11:03 gogogadgetflow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2010 10:55 Whole wrote:
Now for the most important question:

Poll: What should the technique me named

(sock)folding (197)
 
76%

Mineral Boosting (56)
 
22%

Other (4)
 
2%

7% Trick (2)
 
1%

259 total votes

Your vote: What should the technique me named

(Vote): (sock)folding
(Vote): Mineral Boosting
(Vote): 7% Trick
(Vote): Other



Edit: fucking typo.

"What should the technique be named?"


it should be called (sockfolder) mineral boosting

We should avoid calling it the 7% trick for now because I don't think it's been proven that it will cause a 7% increase in return in all situations.

So long as the standard harvest time for the resource is no greater than (0.5 / 0.07) = 7.14 seconds, then the boost will be guaranteed to be at least 7%. See my post on the previous page for why.
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 13 2010 02:15 GMT
#434
However yes I agree, mineral folding is absolutely the best name. It gives tribute to the original finder while pertaining to the actual technique (folding a path onto itself, thereby making it shorter).
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 13 2010 02:17 GMT
#435
I have to say, I just went and tried this four or five times.

Normally beforehand in the first few seconds of the game I just stared at the screen and thought about what I was going to do, and had an APM of like 0-10.

Doing this I have an APM of 100+, and feel like I'm actually doing something in the first 60 seconds of the game that is having an effect on the game.

I'm not sure that it's doing anything very significant, but it FEELS cool, and makes sock the most awesome person on TL atm for finding it.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
ejac
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1195 Posts
September 13 2010 02:19 GMT
#436
Heh, I don't really like this. I was a iccup bw player and I realize how tricks separate a higher level player from a lower level player. The problem with this trick is that it is (fairly easily) masterable and instead of differentiating players, it will simply be a requirement to play at a competitive level and in the end just be an apm sink. Oh wells, gonna have to learn to do this regularly.
esq>n
Emperor_Earth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States824 Posts
September 13 2010 02:20 GMT
#437
To someone with the Time/spreadsheet wizardry to test this.

Wouldn't it be easier to Just bind every peon to 0, SeleCt them and hold down "c" every Time you have a free Action? That should* have them immediately return cargo on Gas/minerals every Time they have the goodies, amirite?
@Emperor_Earth ------- "Amat Victoria Curam."
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 13 2010 02:23 GMT
#438
On September 13 2010 11:20 Emperor_Earth wrote:
To someone with the Time/spreadsheet wizardry to test this.

Wouldn't it be easier to Just bind every peon to 0, SeleCt them and hold down "c" every Time you have a free Action? That should* have them immediately return cargo on Gas/minerals every Time they have the goodies, amirite?


No, because then you'd have to click on the patch again for them to keep mining, and if you did it with a whole group they'd all move to one patch and then split and you'd lose significant mining time.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Gnax
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden490 Posts
September 13 2010 02:26 GMT
#439
On September 13 2010 11:23 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2010 11:20 Emperor_Earth wrote:
To someone with the Time/spreadsheet wizardry to test this.

Wouldn't it be easier to Just bind every peon to 0, SeleCt them and hold down "c" every Time you have a free Action? That should* have them immediately return cargo on Gas/minerals every Time they have the goodies, amirite?


No, because then you'd have to click on the patch again for them to keep mining, and if you did it with a whole group they'd all move to one patch and then split and you'd lose significant mining time.


No, you don't have to click on a mineral patch to make them keep mining :-)
Emperor_Earth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States824 Posts
September 13 2010 02:26 GMT
#440
On September 13 2010 11:23 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2010 11:20 Emperor_Earth wrote:
To someone with the Time/spreadsheet wizardry to test this.

Wouldn't it be easier to Just bind every peon to 0, SeleCt them and hold down "c" every Time you have a free Action? That should* have them immediately return cargo on Gas/minerals every Time they have the goodies, amirite?


No, because then you'd have to click on the patch again for them to keep mining, and if you did it with a whole group they'd all move to one patch and then split and you'd lose significant mining time.


Ketara, I would retest your assumptions on what [c] does.
@Emperor_Earth ------- "Amat Victoria Curam."
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