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[Trick] Early Game +7% Mineral Boost - Page 24

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 22 23 24 25 26 53 Next
MrXmasTree
Profile Joined April 2010
United States6 Posts
September 13 2010 03:00 GMT
#461
I wonder how this would affect 6 pool.............
Gee Gee!
RoarMan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada745 Posts
September 13 2010 03:00 GMT
#462
On September 13 2010 11:58 Artifice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2010 11:52 jamesr12 wrote:
On September 13 2010 11:48 Chex Mix wrote:
Hey everyone, have an Autohotkey macro for mineral boosting.

To use it, select a worker and hover your mouse over that worker's mineral patch. Once the Return Cargo ability is available, hit alt+c. The script will then queue up 15 Shift+C Shift+RightClick in a row, and then play a subdued beep when it's done.


that is called cheating


Unfortunately, or fortunately I guess, depending on your position, you can do the same thing with any keyboard with macro keys, and you'll never be banned for that, considering even the SC2 razer keyboard provides these functions.

I'm pretty sure someone got banned for using Macros on their Keyboard, there was a big thread about it. I'm pretty sure Blizzard will detect that sooner or later, it will be banned.
All the pros got dat Ichie.
Oxus
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3 Posts
September 13 2010 03:01 GMT
#463
Incredible, this is really going to give an edge for players that take the time to learn the trick in the early game.
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
September 13 2010 03:04 GMT
#464
If you contoniously greenbox your workers and hold in C for return Cargo your apm will spike into the 600 - 1000. <,<,< IM KOREAN BABY
"Mudkip"
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1510 Posts
September 13 2010 03:04 GMT
#465
To all those complaining about this exploit:

It's not huge.

If you decided not to scout at 10 supply, the extra minerals you would gain from not scouting would be greater than the minerals gained from someone scouting and using this technique. And people often don't mind even losing their scout. So why would you mind if someone just got a little extra minerals because they were queueing up commands?

And, Blizzard could get rid of this by changing a number in the editor (the N = .5 in a previous post). Therefore, most likely they put it in on purpose, and it's NOT a bug. It's not going anywhere.

You could then make a mod that got rid of this and play that in custom games by changing one number, rather than complaining about it.

Finally, the beginning of the game is boring anyways. In BW people spam clicked boxes in front of their nexus. Now they can spam click to make their Probes mine faster. No big deal.
TaKemE
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark1045 Posts
September 13 2010 03:05 GMT
#466
On September 13 2010 11:58 Artifice wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 13 2010 11:52 jamesr12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2010 11:48 Chex Mix wrote:
Hey everyone, have an Autohotkey macro for mineral boosting.

To use it, select a worker and hover your mouse over that worker's mineral patch. Once the Return Cargo ability is available, hit alt+c. The script will then queue up 15 Shift+C Shift+RightClick in a row, and then play a subdued beep when it's done.


that is called cheating


Unfortunately, or fortunately I guess, depending on your position, you can do the same thing with any keyboard with macro keys, and you'll never be banned for that, considering even the SC2 razer keyboard provides these functions.


Blizzard already said you can get banned for that (its in another thread).
HydroXy
Profile Joined May 2010
United States513 Posts
September 13 2010 03:05 GMT
#467
Wow, huge kudos for finding and writing about this, sockfolder.
This is definitely one of those little mechanics that may not have been intended but that can be used by top level players to give them an advantage.
AJMcSpiffy
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1154 Posts
September 13 2010 03:05 GMT
#468
I think this trick is fine. Alot of players spam in the beginning of the match anyway, usually for warming up their hands or getting to the tempo they hope to keep in the mid-to-late game. This just allows them to do something more useful during that time period.
If the quarter was in your right hand, that would've been micro
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 13 2010 03:08 GMT
#469
On September 13 2010 11:37 oberon wrote:+ Show Spoiler [No] +

I suspect this is caused by the use of battle.net. As everyone knows, no game is now played on "LAN latency" -- all commands you issue have a delay integrated so that, should you have a brief lagspike, your computer already knows what should happen over the next chunk of time. Since this delay would be applied when a command is issued, not executed, my guess is that workers who have just harvested issue such a command (it's not previously queued). By issuing it earlier, yourself, you can eat the delay when it's irrelevant, and have instant response as the queue is executed.

If I'm right, this would apply to any automatically-provided order. The problem is knowing which orders are complex, and which orders are simple but automatically provided. The biggest example in my mind is target selection. If your roach finishes blowing up one stalker, and starts looking for the next one, is that all part of one "attack" command? Or is a new attack command enqueued when the first enemy is eliminated? If the latter, you're losing DPS, and optimal combat micro becomes absurdly intensive (not only must you manually select all targets, you must do it one step ahead -- always having the next target queued up). This should be testable -- throw a unit against a few enemies, and time the kills, then do the same with each enemy queued up.

If this is the case, I can think of two fixes:

1) "Linked" commands. When you mine something, the return is enqueued at the same time, and linked to the mining action. If the mining is canceled so is the return. This would be an easy fix for workers, but to have every combat unit always have a secondary target queued up would be a pain.

2) Complex commands. "Harvest" has to include both gather and return. "Attack" has to include target selection, etc.

Can anyone think of other (potentially) automatically issued commands?




On September 13 2010 10:23 SiNiquity wrote:
Having done a ton of research on worker mechanics in this game, and since I haven't seen a full explanation of this technique, allow me to explain the game mechanics behind it.

How this trick works

Workers in the game go through 7 stages cyclically (that is, at the end of stage 7 the worker proceeds to stage 1) when harvesting resources. This is straight from the Galaxy Editor:
  1. Approach Resource - The initial stage where the worker travels to the resource.
  2. Wait at Resource - If the resource is already being harvested.
  3. Harvest - The harvest stage where the unit either plays the harvest mineral animation, or disappears into the vespene geyser.
  4. Wait to Return - The worker waits for some number of seconds which I shall refer to as N. This is a resource dependent stage (that is, it depends on a property of the resource). For minerals, N = 0.5, but for gas, N = 0.
  5. Wait for Drop Off - This stage is only executed if a drop-off location is not available (i.e there is no reachable Nexus, or the last Command Center is lifted).
  6. Approach Drop Off - Worker travels back to the base
  7. Drop Off - Worker deposits the resources into the base.


At the beginning of stage 4, the "Gather" ability changes into the "Return Cargo" ability, as the unit now has cargo in its possession. Thus by spamming C / Right-click repeatedly into the worker's action queue, one can skip stage 4 and jump immediately to stage 5.

Theory does not lie. This technique works. However, as a result, it will not work for gas.

edit: I don't think it's going to get patched, because the 4th stage is arbitrary anyway. They [Blizzard] could've just added 0.5 seconds to the harvest time without that 4th stage, but instead the put it in the game. I think this is intentional.

TL;DR: It works. Probably not going anywhere. Game on.

'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
Tiax;mous
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
669 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 03:14:39
September 13 2010 03:09 GMT
#470
I don't understand one thing tho , apologies if this is talked/ explained before;
Normally 2 drones a patch is close to perfectly balanced , as one finished other one starts after a little gap ( for 3rd drone ). But with this technique will kill that timing , and whenever one drone comes back faster from returning cargo , it will have to move for another patch and obviously not mine for a little. Isn't that balance it out?


Edit : Nevermind , even OP stated that already ; i really don't know how i missed that in the first place

Anyone tried if it is really working after 8th drone? If not , it's only working for first 200ish minerals which means 14 minerals from boosting right?
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 03:14:06
September 13 2010 03:10 GMT
#471
On September 13 2010 11:34 EntropyFails wrote:
I posted a short video Tutorial on (sock)folding at YouTube.



There are also a few reddit discussions going on about it at

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/dczjc/7_mineral_boosting_video_tutorial_video/
and
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/dcx0q/7_mineral_boosting_for_those_with_spare_apm_early/

Personally, I'll take any percentage that I can get over my opponent and I find myself getting bored in early game with just scouting and SCV production. Having the extra minerals plus being warmed up APM wise can only be a good thing.



Thanks, wow that is stupidly easy. The earlier gas is totally worth spam queuing. You don't even have to get it optimal. You just need to get 25 minerals.

This would be perfect for my 10-Rax Thor build. I'm usually gas blocked.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
ccdnl
Profile Joined April 2010
United States611 Posts
September 13 2010 03:12 GMT
#472
Thanks sock for sharing your find. And I will assume this works for gas too? ...Kekeke...
civil cervixes || Kang Min Fan || I like TLO, TLO= German, I like Germans..?
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17038 Posts
September 13 2010 03:14 GMT
#473
On September 13 2010 12:12 ccdnl wrote:
Thanks sock for sharing your find. And I will assume this works for gas too? ...Kekeke...


No, gas is instantaneous.

Anyway, I tried this out on a few games tonight. I definitely noticed that my first Supply Depot and Barracks came out faster than they had previously. Such a cool find!
Moderator
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 13 2010 03:15 GMT
#474
Actually, now that I think about it, adding 0.5 seconds to the mineral harvest time isn't the easy fix to this either, as increasing the harvest time of the resource will in some circumstances decrease the number of workers that can work on it harmoniously (i.e. without interfering with one another).
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
TitleRug
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States651 Posts
September 13 2010 03:16 GMT
#475
I feel that no one will say "gl hf" now
coLCruncher fighting!
TheFinalWord
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia790 Posts
September 13 2010 03:18 GMT
#476
I'm not happy with this, I feel as though blizzard balanced the early game without this bug in mind, it seems to favour zerg as zerg worker production is limited by minerals, not worker build time. Also I'm lazy
Voyager I
Profile Joined July 2010
United States260 Posts
September 13 2010 03:18 GMT
#477
I cannot believe people are excited about having to spend the first minute or so of every game molesting their keyboards to stay competitive.

If somebody made an FPS where you had to bind separate keys to left foot and right foot and tap them alternately to walk rather than just holding W, how many copies would you buy?
Sylvr
Profile Joined May 2010
United States524 Posts
September 13 2010 03:18 GMT
#478
On September 13 2010 11:34 EntropyFails wrote:
I posted a short video Tutorial on (sock)folding at YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGtauy7OWUY

There are also a few reddit discussions going on about it at

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/dczjc/7_mineral_boosting_video_tutorial_video/
and
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/dcx0q/7_mineral_boosting_for_those_with_spare_apm_early/

Personally, I'll take any percentage that I can get over my opponent and I find myself getting bored in early game with just scouting and SCV production. Having the extra minerals plus being warmed up APM wise can only be a good thing.



Only problem with the video is that the hotkey is C, not D. Other than that, yours is probably a better description of the technique than the Noob School video, though his was a better actual demonstration of it working.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
September 13 2010 03:19 GMT
#479
On September 13 2010 12:16 TitleRug wrote:
I feel that no one will say "gl hf" now


If you opponent says glhf 30 seconds into the game, then oyu know he visits TL. :D
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Gnax
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden490 Posts
September 13 2010 03:19 GMT
#480
On September 13 2010 12:16 TitleRug wrote:
I feel that no one will say "gl hf" now


koreans will do this trick with all their workers and type "gl hf" while watching TV.
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