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As a Korean who's been watching the game for quite some time, I have to disagree.
This is already a small market with small audiences. Having 2 major leagues under different games at once will cannibalize each other. There's no 'gracefully' handing down the baton. One must stop before the other can begin.
There is however one central objective that must be accomplished: Kespa must be disbanded. The whole association is basically an extortion racket designed purely to siphon back the ad revenue the major companies invested in OGN and MBCgames - holding players as hostages. The whole market cannot grow with a leech on its back. They're leaving no profit for the networks to really expand the leagues.
The companies already have seen marketing potentials in this market, so even if they pull out for now, they'll eventually return and teams will form soon after.
It's gonna hurt for now, but it's all for better. It's better to have the game's control in the hand of the game's developer.
Also let's not forget what Kespa's been doing to the scene as well. Chat bans, PPP, unfair rulings (heater, anyone?), Mohime boycott, pulling NaDa out, the list goes on. They've done more bad than good.
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On September 04 2010 14:14 gaggar wrote:
Also let's not forget what Kespa's been doing to the scene as well. Chat bans, PPP, unfair rulings (heater, anyone?), Mohime boycott, pulling NaDa out, the list goes on. They've done more bad than good.
When you really lay it all out, it's sort of surprising the scene has done as well as it has, in spite of such an inept ruling body. It's really a credit to the players and the fans. :|
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On September 04 2010 13:38 Hikko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 13:32 Trap wrote:
New SC2 fans have no idea what "success" means in terms of e-sport. Only Broodwar has managed to gather non-video game nerds as a major part of the audience (it's acceptable to be a teenage girl and go see proleague or bring your kids to go see OSL). I was watching the MLG stream and my father, who hates video games and doesn't understand them at all, walked in the room and sat behind me. I briefly explained Starcraft 2 to him again and he was entranced. He watched Socke v Drewbie, all three games. He thought it was really cool. My mother joined us for a while as well. By your definition this makes SC2 a successful e-sport, right? Not trolling, I'm just going through your logic.
Dude , probably your father was just " shit my son like this kind of shit, i think ill have to endure it".
The fact is that some new SC2 players think "wow , this event is huge there is 2000 sc2 nerds watching on the stream" , and go " the scene is huge outside Korea". This is retarded, is like comparing the NBA with the Paraguai basket scene.
and lol , " BW is only big in Korea , SC2 is bigger in the world". Yeah but the Korean scene is like 1000 times bigger than the rest the world...
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new sc2 players need to understand that bw in korea is what esports is at its best.
Regularly on tv,
players getting paid $100,000+
big audience that dont even play the game, but love watching it.
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On September 04 2010 14:21 Looky wrote:
new sc2 players need to understand that bw in korea is what esports is at its best.
Regularly on tv,
players getting paid $100,000+
big audience that dont even play the game, but love watching it.
In spite of KeSPA.
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On September 04 2010 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Instead, I’d love to see the anger that was directed at GOM for it’s idiotic paying stream system to be focused at the Blizzard and their Gretech puppets. If the fans of esports in general, whether Sc2 or BW don’t speak up and demand a deal on BW, then I fear the dream of Korean esports is doomed.
Thought they said somewhere there would be a free LQ stream.
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On September 04 2010 14:22 Vokasak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 14:21 Looky wrote:
new sc2 players need to understand that bw in korea is what esports is at its best.
Regularly on tv,
players getting paid $100,000+
big audience that dont even play the game, but love watching it.
In spite of KeSPA.
Do you know what Kespa is?
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Brood War is dead. It is only because it was such a great and enduring game that people don't realize it yet. It was dead from the moment Blizzard announced a sequel. There's a reason everyone connected with the two games who did not directly benefit from continuing the original immediately moved over to the newer version when it released. Starcraft 2 is newer, prettier, "hip" and yes, it's stars include players from all over the globe. Rightly or wrongly, those things matter. People who may have been intrigued by the idea of the original or esports in general are flocking to SC2 because it doesn't feel like they are a decade behind. KESPA is within it's rights to try and hold on as long as possible, but in reality they would be better served by embracing the transition rather than fighting a battle they cannot win. Time always emerges the victor, and if wasn't going to be Starcraft 2 something else would have come along eventually.
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10387 Posts
On September 04 2010 14:22 Vokasak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 14:21 Looky wrote:
new sc2 players need to understand that bw in korea is what esports is at its best.
Regularly on tv,
players getting paid $100,000+
big audience that dont even play the game, but love watching it.
In spite of KeSPA.
oh please, lets start listing all the bad shit Blizzard has done right? Kespa isn't even that bad.
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On September 04 2010 14:24 SONE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Instead, I’d love to see the anger that was directed at GOM for it’s idiotic paying stream system to be focused at the Blizzard and their Gretech puppets. If the fans of esports in general, whether Sc2 or BW don’t speak up and demand a deal on BW, then I fear the dream of Korean esports is doomed. Thought they said somewhere there would be a free LQ stream.
But recently, it’s been clouded by GomTV’s decision to charge non-Korean viewers up to $50 for live stream and VODs. The public outcry has been tremendous from Koreans and non-Koreans alike, and thankfully, GomTV listened. There will be stream. It will be free. Decisions like this are not easy, and to their credit, the powers that run the GSL listened to the community.
-First news post on the front page of Teamliquid.
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new sc2 players need to understand that bw in korea is what esports is at its best.
Regularly on tv,
players getting paid $100,000+
big audience that dont even play the game, but love watching it.
Sure...in Korea.
That has never been the case for BW in any other country. Certainly, American and European interest in BW is negligible by comparison.
If SC2 is going to be bigger than BW, it is going to have to succeed outside of Korea. And, if it *does* succeed outside of Korea, than it can afford to be less popular than BW in Korea.
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On September 04 2010 14:26 JPSke wrote:
Brood War is dead. It is only because it was such a great and enduring game that people don't realize it yet. It was dead from the moment Blizzard announced a sequel. There's a reason everyone connected with the two games who did not directly benefit from continuing the original immediately moved over to the newer version when it released. Starcraft 2 is newer, prettier, "hip" and yes, it's stars include players from all over the globe. Rightly or wrongly, those things matter. People who may have been intrigued by the idea of the original or esports in general are flocking to SC2 because it doesn't feel like they are a decade behind. KESPA is within it's rights to try and hold on as long as possible, but in reality they would be better served by embracing the transition rather than fighting a battle they cannot win. Time always emerges the victor, and if wasn't going to be Starcraft 2 something else would have come along eventually.
So you are saying that they should leave behind the sc:bw progaming scene which is already intact with full corporate backings, sponsors, etc. to something that is just starting and fragile?
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On September 04 2010 14:27 Cynoks wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 14:24 SONE wrote:On September 04 2010 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Instead, I’d love to see the anger that was directed at GOM for it’s idiotic paying stream system to be focused at the Blizzard and their Gretech puppets. If the fans of esports in general, whether Sc2 or BW don’t speak up and demand a deal on BW, then I fear the dream of Korean esports is doomed. Thought they said somewhere there would be a free LQ stream. Show nested quote +But recently, it’s been clouded by GomTV’s decision to charge non-Korean viewers up to $50 for live stream and VODs. The public outcry has been tremendous from Koreans and non-Koreans alike, and thankfully, GomTV listened. There will be stream. It will be free. Decisions like this are not easy, and to their credit, the powers that run the GSL listened to the community. -First news post on the front page of Teamliquid.
Yes is that not what I said?
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On September 04 2010 14:28 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +new sc2 players need to understand that bw in korea is what esports is at its best.
Regularly on tv,
players getting paid $100,000+
big audience that dont even play the game, but love watching it. Sure... in Korea. That has never been the case for BW in any other country. Certainly, American and European interest in BW is negligible by comparison. If SC2 is going to be bigger than BW, it is going to have to succeed outside of Korea. And, if it *does* succeed outside of Korea, than it can afford to be less popular than BW in Korea.
Korea is the mecca of e-sports my friend. It is already an institution there compared to the rest of the world. If they want SC2 to be played professionally on the level that SCBW is at now then it has to succeed first in Korea.
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On September 04 2010 14:25 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 14:22 Vokasak wrote:On September 04 2010 14:21 Looky wrote:
new sc2 players need to understand that bw in korea is what esports is at its best.
Regularly on tv,
players getting paid $100,000+
big audience that dont even play the game, but love watching it.
In spite of KeSPA. Do you know what Kespa is?
He obviously does not.
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On September 04 2010 14:27 Cynoks wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 14:24 SONE wrote:On September 04 2010 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Instead, I’d love to see the anger that was directed at GOM for it’s idiotic paying stream system to be focused at the Blizzard and their Gretech puppets. If the fans of esports in general, whether Sc2 or BW don’t speak up and demand a deal on BW, then I fear the dream of Korean esports is doomed. Thought they said somewhere there would be a free LQ stream. Show nested quote +But recently, it’s been clouded by GomTV’s decision to charge non-Korean viewers up to $50 for live stream and VODs. The public outcry has been tremendous from Koreans and non-Koreans alike, and thankfully, GomTV listened. There will be stream. It will be free. Decisions like this are not easy, and to their credit, the powers that run the GSL listened to the community. -First news post on the front page of Teamliquid.
Cause they know they can't stop free streams from poping up.
Best to offer a lq stream for free, and give a "membership" with hq streams, hq vods etc inside stuff.
I have to agree, with the op as well. Bw cannot die, mainly because i love it so.
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On September 04 2010 14:25 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 14:22 Vokasak wrote:On September 04 2010 14:21 Looky wrote:
new sc2 players need to understand that bw in korea is what esports is at its best.
Regularly on tv,
players getting paid $100,000+
big audience that dont even play the game, but love watching it.
In spite of KeSPA. Do you know what Kespa is?
The group that killed off the BW league most open to foreign fans, and hand out punishments because players don't gg "properly", that forced Nada to cut his showmatch with TLO short, that completely mishandled the match fixing even though they admit to knowing it was going on. Yes, I know what Kespa is, but it doesn't seem like you do.
On September 04 2010 14:26 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 14:22 Vokasak wrote:On September 04 2010 14:21 Looky wrote:
new sc2 players need to understand that bw in korea is what esports is at its best.
Regularly on tv,
players getting paid $100,000+
big audience that dont even play the game, but love watching it.
In spite of KeSPA. oh please, lets start listing all the bad shit Blizzard has done right? Kespa isn't even that bad.
Like what? Made stims 50/50 cheaper? Get a grip.
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On September 04 2010 14:28 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +new sc2 players need to understand that bw in korea is what esports is at its best.
Regularly on tv,
players getting paid $100,000+
big audience that dont even play the game, but love watching it. Sure... in Korea. That has never been the case for BW in any other country. Certainly, American and European interest in BW is negligible by comparison. If SC2 is going to be bigger than BW, it is going to have to succeed outside of Korea. And, if it *does* succeed outside of Korea, than it can afford to be less popular than BW in Korea.
SC2 is going to be bigger than BW ? Outside Korea ? Where dude ?in Europe ? No country will embrace e-sport like Korea did so soon. The fact that is there is no real professional e-sports scene outside of Korea. Cant compare a dude who plays for a 3k prize once a year with someone who gets a five digit salary.
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This has been said before a million times, but...
Blizzard doesn't care.
And that's the heart of the problem. This is not the same Blizzard that we grew up with. Elements of that old Blizzard still remain, but that corporation that tried to establish itself by producing the absolute best games (even if release dates would get pushed back quite frequently) seems to have been replaced by a more typical American business. Competitor companies come along? Take 'em to court! Long term planning of growth of e-sports? Who needs that when we can have a bigger profit margin now, in the short term?
I remember going to a LAN and getting a free Warcraft 3 mousepad from a guy who worked at Blizzard and talking to him about what we gamers wanted to see in a sequel to Starcraft. Where has that corporate mentality gone? (That guy, awesome fellow by the way but I'm drawing a blank on his name, ended up leaving the company. I don't remember why, if he even said why.)
I don't mean to beat the "Let's All Demonize Blizzard" drum. They still provide us with excellent games. But I really miss the Blizzard that cared what the hardcore enthusiasts thought. I miss the Blizzard that remembered that the popularity of Starcraft is owed to the people who made e-sports sustainable (the players, the coaches, and most importantly the die-hard fans). Because under different circumstances, Starcraft might have been like Warcraft 3 in its fanbase, and if that had happened, then Warcraft 3 wouldn't have been as strong and Starcraft 2 certainly wouldn't have been as strong in the sales ratings.
Now, Blizzard is just another "big company" like Microsoft or Oracle.
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On September 04 2010 14:11 Cynoks wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2010 14:06 Amnesia wrote:
Ah right, this is the SC2 forum. Of course they want BW dead lol. I wouldn't say that I want BW dead. I'm just of the opinion that it's vastly out dated and it's only a matter of time before the focus of e-sports(In both Korea and globally) shifts to a newer technology SC2 or otherwise.
So, if what you write makes any sense why hasn't it happened in Korea and why didn't it happen with wc3?
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EPT
