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Half
United States2554 Posts
On September 05 2010 03:49 latan wrote: Sports (without the e) is not about the culture, just to set an example. Please don't tell me you're seriously. It isn't purely about the culture, but if you're trying to deny that there is a huge meta-cultural background to any major sports and sporting events, you don't have any understanding of sports, E or not. | ||
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Zenny
Canada34 Posts
 . Thanks for the read | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
This. Money and tournaments is not an Esport. Social acceptance is. BW created that in Korea. Modeling SC2 off of Korea to become something as accepted as Football would be great. And why was BW able to do what it did? Stability. Let BW slowly die to a developing SC2 to give SC2 a sense of stability and let it develop a Pro-League, not a conglomeration of tournaments for me and my nerd friends to watch. I want to be able to watch it with my girlfriend who is not a gamer. That's success. SC2 is not a success yet. Gaming in America is not some "niche" thing. The stereotype of gamers as being exclusively nerds and teenage boys is simply untrue. The fact is, as a guy in my late 20's, I probably don't know a single guy, "nerd" or otherwise, under the age of 40 who doesn't play videogames at least casually. If SC2 just takes off with gamers, that is still potentially an enormous market. I would wager a guess that significantly more people play and enjoy video games on some level (that is, including *all* games, including handheld games, facebook games, etc.) at this point than, for example, seriously follow Hockey. I don't really care if my fiance follows SC2. She doesn't follow the NBA or NFL either. If me and my buddies can turn on ESPN2 and see an SC2 tournament some day, that'd be more than enough for me, and I think there are more than enough gamers to create ratings to power that sort of success. Gamers badly need to get over their inferiority complex about not being "mainstream". Video games *are* a mainstream pasttime, and getting moreso every day. The jump to being a mainstream spectator sport is not so difficult as some folks imagine. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
If poker can make it... This. If people seriously think SC2 has less inherent appeal as a spectator sport than Poker, I dunno what to say. What makes Poker work are high stakes and compelling personalities which create drama, and announcers/visual aids which help casual viewers follow the action. No reason both of those can't exist for SC2. | ||
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Evil_Monkey_
Denmark296 Posts
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
The mainstream success of BW in Korea is a complete anomaly that will never again be duplicated anywhere else. | ||
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Evil_Monkey_
Denmark296 Posts
On September 05 2010 09:16 Alexstrasas wrote: You are complelty missing the point, there is just no way that Blizzard would be negotiating with Kespa at this point. From a practical point of view, Kespa not allowing pros to play SC2 makes the "luring with tournament money" kinda obsolete, because a steady pay check is always better. As far as I can see Blizzard just want to make money and if that includes ripping down the pro-broodwar scene then so be it. They want more people on sc2 and more people buying cd's etc. Please do not make them sound virtuous for trying to rid the world of broodwar leagues. The money and revenue that broodwar is making is small peanuts to them and they've not shown much interest in it until it stops them from making a profit, because it turns out game 1 is superior to game 2. Edit: Ooops, I replied to the wrong post *sigh* | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On September 05 2010 10:30 Evil_Monkey_ wrote: As far as I can see Blizzard just want to make money and if that includes ripping down the pro-broodwar scene then so be it. They want more people on sc2 and more people buying cd's etc. Please do not make them sound virtuous for trying to rid the world of broodwar leagues. The money and revenue that broodwar is making is small peanuts to them and they've not shown much interest in it until it stops them from making a profit, because it turns out game 1 is superior to game 2. Edit: Ooops, I replied to the wrong post *sigh* Blizzard gains nothing by killing BW. Killing BW does not mean that SC2 is popular. Right now, korea has SC2 for FREE so people that will want to get it will get it, regardless of the status of BW. Also, that last remark just shows that you are ridiculously biased. I kinda wish TL would ban people when they have such an obvious bias such as that, as it brings nothing to the discussion and just wastes peoples time. | ||
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Evil_Monkey_
Denmark296 Posts
On September 05 2010 11:33 TheRabidDeer wrote: Blizzard gains nothing by killing BW. Killing BW does not mean that SC2 is popular. Right now, korea has SC2 for FREE so people that will want to get it will get it, regardless of the status of BW. Also, that last remark just shows that you are ridiculously biased. I kinda wish TL would ban people when they have such an obvious bias such as that, as it brings nothing to the discussion and just wastes peoples time. What you are saying is that broodwar dying will not cause an influx of players to starcraft2. This makes no sense at all. If people are not playing the one RTS, they will be playing the other which means a lot of marketing value and promo for their product = $$$. In addition, it equals more cd-sales. I'm also talking worldwide, not just Korea. Anyway, if you want to make some constructive points about why I'm wrong, please do that. You can also continue to cry about you wanting me to get banned, without having posted any arguments that underline your case. Honestly, you're the one crying for people to get banned, but you failed to post one single reason, except for me being biased in your view. If you do not think big firms like Blizzard are very money fixated talk to some people who have played WoW or maybe you should just go and live in happy-land where big multinational corporations care nothing about money...... *sigh* | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On September 05 2010 10:24 gozima wrote: SC2/E-Sports will never become more than the niche subculture it is today in NA period. The mainstream success of BW in Korea is a complete anomaly that will never again be duplicated anywhere else. And you're stating this opinion as fact based on.... | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
On September 05 2010 09:11 Teddyman wrote: You're exaggerating how socially accepted gaming is in Korea. If you read progamer interviews, most of them say their parents were opposed to that lifestyle. Of course their parents eventually gave up since they became progamers, but it hints that many kids were denied the chance. All in all it seems the older generation still thinks that games are a waste of time. The country is also fighting increasing internet addiction. Recently we heard news that the government would be blocking access to 19 popular online games for 6 hours a night for underage players. That doesn't sound very much like acceptance to me. Sorry, but these points are rather silly. Originally, parents were opposed to it because the industry wasn't really established so people didn't realize there was actually money in it. That's why parents of people like Boxer would have been opposed. Nowadays, people know that it's possible to earn a living there, but it's still known to be a very tough environment to live in and if you aren't successful things might not be too great. That's why parents today might not want their kids to be progamers. That has nothing to do with the sport being accepted or not. As for the internet addiction implying the government don't really accept it.....Korea has a MINISTER for e-sports dude. The fact is that Starcraft as a sport IS accepted in South Korea, and you can see that every pro game when they show dads or moms with their children or screaming teenage girls. | ||
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bias-
United States410 Posts
On September 04 2010 22:13 Vokasak wrote: Blizzard isn't killing anything. They're not out of line at all in expecting KeSPA to stop stealing their game. Take a look at how much KeSPA collects from MBC/OSL to pretty much sit on their asses and send refs to a few matches (And then fuck up decisions when they're needed. MSL power outage anyone). You're telling me they can't afford to pay some royalty fees to the company that rightfully owns the game? Get a grip. If BW dies it'll be at the hands of KeSPA's stubbornness. Look, after 10 years of having no problem with the free advertising and promotion of their game via eSports culture, all of a sudden it is a problem when the sequel comes out? Blizzard is killing it on purpose to emphasize SC2 and because it now realizes it wants to be the only one with control over how SC2 is broadcast & played, everywhere. Big companies can't do anything with the game, they're like puppets. It's for the money. Blizzard has no respect for the eSports in Korea or what it has done for their company. They ARE killing the culture and monopolizing the tournament scene. They're forcing every match to go through Battle.net for monetary purposes. You can't play overseas players. NaDa got disconnected from TLO in a showmatch to in part bridge the gap between SC1 and SC2 - no one seems to care? Where is the hellfire rage that.. the old TL.. would have thrown forth? | ||
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mimikami
France77 Posts
In the other hand, if they decide to do nothing and let BW die, then BW should just die, because despite its success, people still don't love it enough. And I think Blizzard should focus on improving SC2's spectator aspect to the same level as BW before trying to stop BW. Instead of using their time and effort to win an e-sport war, why not just balance the game out, add something that makes the game more exiting to watch, why start this whole thing one month after the game's release ? They will probably have 99% chance to win this if they act 1 or 2 year in the future, now it's just a risky gamble. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
I really think whether this nightmare will end well or not depends on the amount of love the koreans put into Broodwar. If they view Broodwar as an essential part of their culture, then when BW is killed, they will go to the street and protest. If they can just gather the same amount of people as in the Proleague Grand Final the Korean gov will be forced to calm down the situation and ensure the continuity of BW proscene. They may just disband Kespa and replace it by a government backed association, and force Blizz to leave BW scene alone (Blizz cannot go headstrong against a 18+ rating threat to SC2). This....is not how the world works. Protests against things almost never accomplish anything, let alone protests demanding that the government take on a new role. In the other hand, if they decide to do nothing and let BW die, then BW should just die, because despite its success, people still don't love it enough. This is dumb. One can love something and be willing to financially support it, but not want to waste your time in useless street protests for it. | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
On September 04 2010 18:58 Vokasak wrote: Demanding fair compensation for use of their product is NOT running BW out of business. KeSPA are just refusing to budge and would rather burn BW esports to the ground than have to give up some of their cocaine and hot-tub money. It baffles me how anyone could try and pin BW's demise on Blizzard when KeSPA has been ruining BW for years all by itself with nobody else's help. This is just the next (and possibly last) in a long line of KeSPA fuck-ups. Use of their product? They are broadcasting games of people using the product. Kespa made Starcraft a sport, not Blizzard. Didn't the Korean government already shoot down Blizzard's claim that it owns anything and everything even remotely related to Starcraft? | ||
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
On September 05 2010 17:20 Ocedic wrote: And you're stating this opinion as fact based on.... I thought he was being sarcastic. | ||
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Evil_Monkey_
Denmark296 Posts
On September 05 2010 19:55 bias- wrote: Look, after 10 years of having no problem with the free advertising and promotion of their game via eSports culture, all of a sudden it is a problem when the sequel comes out? Blizzard is killing it on purpose to emphasize SC2 and because it now realizes it wants to be the only one with control over how SC2 is broadcast & played, everywhere. Big companies can't do anything with the game, they're like puppets. It's for the money. Blizzard has no respect for the eSports in Korea or what it has done for their company. They ARE killing the culture and monopolizing the tournament scene. They're forcing every match to go through Battle.net for monetary purposes. You can't play overseas players. NaDa got disconnected from TLO in a showmatch to in part bridge the gap between SC1 and SC2 - no one seems to care? Where is the hellfire rage that.. the old TL.. would have thrown forth? You sum up my thoughts really well. | ||
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fantomex
United States313 Posts
It is only through BW, that Sc2 can reasonably be expected to make it as an esport. You don't offer any proof of this, nor do you lay out an argument for why I should care about what goes on in Korea. ESL/IEM and MLG are making Korea, if not irrelevant, than at least superfluous. The fact that Idra, who is a strong player but at best competitive with the rest of the world, is favored to win GSL suggests that, for now at least, Korea doesn't even have a competitive lead in SC2 (of course the results will speak for themselves). I realize the Korean pros have been slow to transition, I just don't know why I should care. | ||
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