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On June 30 2012 03:34 ntssauce wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:26 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On June 30 2012 03:16 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 30 2012 03:13 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:19 Elldar wrote:
So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise. How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate. No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know. IdrA IS a top player. Especially if you compare him to Avilo. The difference in not only but skill but also (and most importantly) experience is huge. If an amateur tries to argue with an expert, it's going to be a waste of everyone's time (except for novelty/entertainment value, which is the reason he was brought on in the first place). Well since ive never seen Avilo play i will agree that Idra is most likely alot better than him. But calling Idra a "top" player, is very very far from the truth. Sure, he was a top foreigner in BW, if not THE top foreigner. But not in sc2 mate. im not an idra fan but id still consider him a top player hes had some great runs and great victories in sc2 and this is a nice little recap of those + Show Spoiler + a highlight video rofl! you serious mate? however someone also said top 5 foreign zergs . another hard laugh. maybe in the beta. now not at all go to liquipedia and take 5 of the 1XX zergs that are better than him and came further in like MLGs and so on, even tefel cane further in mlg than idra.
First place 2011-11-05 ASUS ROG Stars Invite IdrA 4 : 2 SeleCT
First place 2011-10-27 2011 MLG North American Invitational IdrA 4 : 1 Sheth
Fourth place 2011-10-16 2011 MLG Orlando IdrA 1 : 2 MC
First place 2011-10-04 IEM Season VI - Global Challenge Guangzhou IdrA 3 : 1 elfi
He's obviously in a slump the past few months, but your post is so disgustingly bias and inaccurate it's essentially trolling.
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On June 30 2012 03:41 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:17 itmeJP wrote:Unfortunately, that happened. Sorry to IdrA and Avilo for creating that situation. I had no idea that was going to happen and I wished it didn't looking back. I was unaware of their past. In regards to the 'bullying' I don't know really anything about Avilo so when I asked him if that was him, it was a sincere question, not a joke. The reason I cut him off abruptly is because it was going downhill very quickly. It was a brash decision but one I stand by. I instantly messaged him afterwards to apologize for having to do that. VOD processing, MP3 up -- http://sotg-sc2.blogspot.com/2012/06/sotg-ep72.html In fact, I wanna re-emphasise this. This is what we should look at and say "yeah, it was a mistake, time to move on" Very well done JP.
Agreed. This was basically as professional as it is going to get.
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On June 30 2012 03:36 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:32 Defacer wrote:
Can we talk about the QXC/IdrA discussion of TvZ please?
I'm a Zerg, and I have to admit I think IdrA and QXC both made some excellent points. While I think IdrA is correct that Terrans haven't done enough to adapt, I think he's underestimating just how dramatic the Queen change, coupled with the Overlord speed increase, actually is.
With Queens as viable early game defense, and faster Overlords for scouting, it's made the Zerg early game much more stable. You would have to be pretty bad to lose to a cheese or 1-base all in as a Zerg these days. Not only that, but Queens and the creep spread mechanic give Zerg's a kind of cost effective, passive form of map control. This makes it next to impossible to blind side or engage a Zerg in the first eight minutes.
This stablization of the early Zerg macro game doesn't just change some timings in TvZ, but ALL the timings. I don't think it's fair to call the Queen and Overlord changes imbalanced yet, but it fundamentally changes the match-up and will take MONTHS to determine whether or not it's balance.
ehh I'm not sure I'd agree that you get map control in the first 8 minutes, that's usually when you're completely blind except for your scouting overlord that you got across the map in the beginning. It's in the mid-late game when the creep spread gets massively out of control that you take map control. Queen openings sacrifice map control (no speedlings) for economy and defense.
Let's not call it 'map control' in the first 8 minutes, but 'base control'. If you can get the creep outside of your natural it's makes early timings much less effective. I can surround hellions, I can walk my queens in and out of my base, I just feel very safe.
With a blind evo, spore, a spine and four queens, you've pretty much soft-countered most cheese, and with some decent overlord scouting you're safe to drone away.
Then again, I'm a bad player playing against other bad players. Would be nice to get some other opinions on this.
But my gut feeling is that Terran players will need a 'Spanishiwa' to discover a radically different approach to the first eight minutes of TvZ.
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Watching Idra and Avilo talk about TvZ balance is like watching two guys in wheelchairs talk about running techniques.
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On June 30 2012 03:38 Domus wrote:
For example, I would love the raven to have a small probe it can fire to scout the battlefield, but that dies after 5 or 10 seconds, just to get some more close-range vision without a heavy sacrifice.
Or scan, perhaps?
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On June 30 2012 01:48 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 01:41 dvorakftw wrote:
I think the real tragedy in all of this is that the childish disrespect for avilo has covered up the fact that IdrA actually admitted the matchup is broke. Aside from straight out saying it, he also acknowledges it with several other points such as saying don't bother trying to stop creep because you can't and just let zerg get its super army and deal with it. Have a few ravens hanging around early building up energy and build starports you won't actually use right away just so you'll be ready to get 20 vikings when the BroodLords show up and let's not talk about what happens when you're left with half of them and the next wave of Zerg lings, roaches, and/or ultras show up.
That's not at all what Idra said. Stop trying to pull an avilo.
Right here at 45m
IdrA says the game is poorly designed and it makes for boring games but except in a small subset of occasions he advises Terrans to turtle, give up on trying to contain creep (and then don't go on creep), and wait for the Zerg super army to show up.
That is a broken matchup.
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On June 30 2012 03:45 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:43 iky43210 wrote:On June 30 2012 03:41 a3den wrote:On June 30 2012 03:31 iky43210 wrote:On June 30 2012 03:29 crms wrote:
Wait, wait, people are grabbing pitchforks over that avilo interview? You guys fucking suck, that was NOTHING. The fuck is wrong with this community? how was it nothing. In what professional shows have you ever heard of where they invite someone to talk down to him then follows by kicking him off the show? Do you have any regards to professionalism? Incontrol and JP laughing constantly in the background while avilo talk is already unacceptable in itself. I don't care what sorry excuses they gave for that part, you should pay attention to your guest when they talk What is "professional" about SOTG exactly ? It began as a grassroots community show and it still is, nobody is really paid for this (they don't even display any ads) and it's not part of their regular jobs. Please stop using the word professionalism, you clearly don't know what it is. you don't need to be paid or it needs to be part of the jobs for professional conducts. They don't have to act professionally, it is their show afterall. But there is nothing wrong with stating how unprofessional they conduct themselves over this episode If it's not their intent to be strictly professional, which they obviously are not considering how much they joke around, then it's a pretty insignificant criticism.
If it is so insignificant, you can ignore it. I doubt state of the game wants their talk show to be branded as unprofessional, its quite a harsh criticism.
Also professionalism is about doing job as what a professional does, but at the same time retain the expectation those who recieve their services. I highly doubt there is many people watching state of the game that endorses bullying. For example, if they said racists things in their stream, it would also brand their show as unprofessional. Joking around with friends still pertain the professionalism of this particular talk show as long as it is within viewers' expectations. Crossing the line? be ready for criticism, and whatever consequences that follows
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On June 30 2012 03:43 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:41 a3den wrote:On June 30 2012 03:31 iky43210 wrote:On June 30 2012 03:29 crms wrote:
Wait, wait, people are grabbing pitchforks over that avilo interview? You guys fucking suck, that was NOTHING. The fuck is wrong with this community? how was it nothing. In what professional shows have you ever heard of where they invite someone to talk down to him then follows by kicking him off the show? Do you have any regards to professionalism? Incontrol and JP laughing constantly in the background while avilo talk is already unacceptable in itself. I don't care what sorry excuses they gave for that part, you should pay attention to your guest when they talk What is "professional" about SOTG exactly ? It began as a grassroots community show and it still is, nobody is really paid for this (they don't even display any ads) and it's not part of their regular jobs. Please stop using the word professionalism, you clearly don't know what it is. you don't need to be paid or it needs to be part of a job for people to act professional. They don't have to act professionally, it is their show afterall. But there is nothing wrong with stating how unprofessional they conduct themselves over this episode
Well, if you agree that they dont need to act professionally, then actually there is something wrong with you stating how they were unprofessional. Let me give you an analogy to illustrate why I say this. "Yeah, I know nobody is perfect, but let me just say bro, you are REALLY imperfect." Here's another one: "Person A: 'You didn't go to an Ivy League school." Person B: 'Why does that matter?' Person A: 'It doesn't but there's nothing wrong with me saying it.'" Or even this: "Mom: 'You don't have to clean your room today, Timmy.' Timmy: 'Ok thanks mom! <3' 2 Hours later: Mom: 'WHAT THE FUCK WHY DIDN'T YOU CLEAN YOUR ROOM YOU LITTLE BASTARD?!'"
Basically, if you agree that they aren't obligated to act professionally, then it is actually WRONG for you express your disappointment for their behavior when they don't.
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For anyone who is saying that this show isn't supposed to be a professional and serious show I must ask what happened? I remember watching this show to get information on all the latest patches, the big news and pro players opinions on such topics. The last handful of episodes I've watched have shown me nothing of the State of the Game I remember. I mean look at the shows title "State of the Game," it sounds like it'll be a professional discussion on the topics at hand. Instead it seems to have devolved into a shit storm of trolling.
Maybe I'm remembering everything through rose colored glasses, but I like to think I'm not. What happened, did I miss some turning point for the show where they all got together and said "fuck being serious?" The whole Avilo thing could have been handled better and I will give respect to IdrA for controlling himself for as long as he did as he made it quite clear he wanted no part of what was to take place, though JP should have known better than to force the topic and iNcontrol did no better in pressuring the even to take place, and yes I say event because it turned into a circle beat with QXC and Nony not saying anything and either enjoying it or not knowing what to do.
I also give props to QXC for doing his best to make sense of what Aviol was able to get out, it's hard to get brought onto a show where you know you have been being put down and being told not to talk about that issue just talk about what we want you to. It's a sure sign of entrapment.
I watched SotG for professional opinions and this episode, while insightful is some aspects, was a saddening view of how our community is. A bunch of people trying to prove that they are not only better at the game, but better human beings than other people. It was simply entrapment in my eyes and Avilo once on hard only 2 options presented to him, go along with it and see how it goes, or leave the call, neither of which would have ended in an OK public opinion of him.
JP, please present the show better in the future. I really don't think I can continue trying to watch the show when I can if it keeps going in this direction. Also I'd like to see a Terran more regularly on the show, Day[9] did a good job, but he looks at more than just the Terran point of view. The show, with it's current regulars, is quite a bit of a circle jerk against Terran since there is no one to defend them there.
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On June 30 2012 03:38 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:34 ntssauce wrote:On June 30 2012 03:26 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On June 30 2012 03:16 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 30 2012 03:13 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:
[quote]
How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate.
No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know. IdrA IS a top player. Especially if you compare him to Avilo. The difference in not only but skill but also (and most importantly) experience is huge. If an amateur tries to argue with an expert, it's going to be a waste of everyone's time (except for novelty/entertainment value, which is the reason he was brought on in the first place). Well since ive never seen Avilo play i will agree that Idra is most likely alot better than him. But calling Idra a "top" player, is very very far from the truth. Sure, he was a top foreigner in BW, if not THE top foreigner. But not in sc2 mate. im not an idra fan but id still consider him a top player hes had some great runs and great victories in sc2 and this is a nice little recap of those + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgeEXZENOh4&feature=player_embedded a highlight video rofl! you serious mate? however someone also said top 5 foreign zergs . another hard laugh. maybe in the beta. now not at all go to liquipedia and take 5 of the 1XX zergs that are better than him and came further in like MLGs and so on, even tefel cane further in mlg than idra. 1. Stephano 2/3. Ret/IdrA 4. Dimaga 5. Sheth Do you disagree?
You have absolutely no idea about what are you talking.
Where is Nerchio ? LiveZerg ? Bly ? Sen ? Morrow ? And you also take Idra with Ret over Dimaga ? How much do you follow EU scene ?
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On June 30 2012 03:52 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:43 iky43210 wrote:On June 30 2012 03:41 a3den wrote:On June 30 2012 03:31 iky43210 wrote:On June 30 2012 03:29 crms wrote:
Wait, wait, people are grabbing pitchforks over that avilo interview? You guys fucking suck, that was NOTHING. The fuck is wrong with this community? how was it nothing. In what professional shows have you ever heard of where they invite someone to talk down to him then follows by kicking him off the show? Do you have any regards to professionalism? Incontrol and JP laughing constantly in the background while avilo talk is already unacceptable in itself. I don't care what sorry excuses they gave for that part, you should pay attention to your guest when they talk What is "professional" about SOTG exactly ? It began as a grassroots community show and it still is, nobody is really paid for this (they don't even display any ads) and it's not part of their regular jobs. Please stop using the word professionalism, you clearly don't know what it is. you don't need to be paid or it needs to be part of a job for people to act professional. They don't have to act professionally, it is their show afterall. But there is nothing wrong with stating how unprofessional they conduct themselves over this episode Well, if you agree that they dont need to act professionally, then actually there is something wrong with you stating how they were unprofessional. Let me give you an analogy to illustrate why I say this. "Yeah, I know nobody is perfect, but let me just say bro, you are REALLY imperfect." Here's another one: "Person A: 'You didn't go to an Ivy League school." Person B: 'Why does that matter?' Person A: 'It doesn't but there's nothing wrong with me saying it.'" Or even this: "Mom: 'You don't have to clean your room today, Timmy.' Timmy: 'Ok thanks mom! <3' 2 Hours later: Mom: 'WHAT THE FUCK WHY DIDN'T YOU CLEAN YOUR ROOM YOU LITTLE BASTARD?!'" Basically, if you agree that they aren't obligated to act professionally, then it is actually WRONG for you express your disappointment for their behavior when they don't.
nobody is obligated to act professionally, but it is expected by their audiences/sponsors/employers/teams. If you don't act professionally, you get criticized. That's the end of it
your analogy is so flawed that I don't even know where to begin, or if I wanted to
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Pre-announcement of an announcement by Geoff, NOOOOOOOOOOO.
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On June 30 2012 03:38 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:34 ntssauce wrote:On June 30 2012 03:26 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On June 30 2012 03:16 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 30 2012 03:13 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:
[quote]
How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate.
No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know. IdrA IS a top player. Especially if you compare him to Avilo. The difference in not only but skill but also (and most importantly) experience is huge. If an amateur tries to argue with an expert, it's going to be a waste of everyone's time (except for novelty/entertainment value, which is the reason he was brought on in the first place). Well since ive never seen Avilo play i will agree that Idra is most likely alot better than him. But calling Idra a "top" player, is very very far from the truth. Sure, he was a top foreigner in BW, if not THE top foreigner. But not in sc2 mate. im not an idra fan but id still consider him a top player hes had some great runs and great victories in sc2 and this is a nice little recap of those + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgeEXZENOh4&feature=player_embedded a highlight video rofl! you serious mate? however someone also said top 5 foreign zergs . another hard laugh. maybe in the beta. now not at all go to liquipedia and take 5 of the 1XX zergs that are better than him and came further in like MLGs and so on, even tefel cane further in mlg than idra. 1. Stephano 2/3. Ret/IdrA 4. Dimaga 5. Sheth Do you disagree?
ret and idra und the same level? omg i can't believe someone would even think about that , maybe 3 classes below! but yeah don't answer please, cause you guys will stay at your opp and i will stay at mine and there is no chance to really argue with you/me becuase in such a thing there are no real arguments.
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On June 30 2012 03:38 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:34 ntssauce wrote:On June 30 2012 03:26 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On June 30 2012 03:16 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 30 2012 03:13 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:
[quote]
How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate.
No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know. IdrA IS a top player. Especially if you compare him to Avilo. The difference in not only but skill but also (and most importantly) experience is huge. If an amateur tries to argue with an expert, it's going to be a waste of everyone's time (except for novelty/entertainment value, which is the reason he was brought on in the first place). Well since ive never seen Avilo play i will agree that Idra is most likely alot better than him. But calling Idra a "top" player, is very very far from the truth. Sure, he was a top foreigner in BW, if not THE top foreigner. But not in sc2 mate. im not an idra fan but id still consider him a top player hes had some great runs and great victories in sc2 and this is a nice little recap of those + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgeEXZENOh4&feature=player_embedded a highlight video rofl! you serious mate? however someone also said top 5 foreign zergs . another hard laugh. maybe in the beta. now not at all go to liquipedia and take 5 of the 1XX zergs that are better than him and came further in like MLGs and so on, even tefel cane further in mlg than idra. 1. Stephano 2/3. Ret/IdrA 4. Dimaga 5. Sheth Do you disagree?
Most non-idra fan boys would...... not to mention players such as Nerchio, Darkforce, Sen, Slivko, Livezerg, Lowely, Morrow, Bly and the rest who are better than him. You realize you just called a zerg with 25-30% win rate in 2012, the 2nd best foreign zerg.
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On June 30 2012 03:43 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:41 a3den wrote:On June 30 2012 03:31 iky43210 wrote:On June 30 2012 03:29 crms wrote:
Wait, wait, people are grabbing pitchforks over that avilo interview? You guys fucking suck, that was NOTHING. The fuck is wrong with this community? how was it nothing. In what professional shows have you ever heard of where they invite someone to talk down to him then follows by kicking him off the show? Do you have any regards to professionalism? Incontrol and JP laughing constantly in the background while avilo talk is already unacceptable in itself. I don't care what sorry excuses they gave for that part, you should pay attention to your guest when they talk What is "professional" about SOTG exactly ? It began as a grassroots community show and it still is, nobody is really paid for this (they don't even display any ads) and it's not part of their regular jobs. Please stop using the word professionalism, you clearly don't know what it is. you don't need to be paid or it needs to be part of a job for people to act professional. They don't have to act professionally, it is their show afterall. But there is nothing wrong with stating how unprofessional they conduct themselves over this episode
I agree... but the line needs to be drawn at some point when people insist on complaining over and over about it, and trying their best to blow it out of proportion. Avilo talked over IdrA, and IdrA told him to shut the fuck up and called him terrible at the game. Yeah, that's not professional. Yeah, that's not the best way to handle the situation. Still... it's not a big deal. Please stop treating it like one and please stop trying to victimize Avilo as if they all ganged up on him and spent the entire time throwing insults.
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On June 30 2012 03:38 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:34 ntssauce wrote:On June 30 2012 03:26 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On June 30 2012 03:16 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 30 2012 03:13 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:
[quote]
How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate.
No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know. IdrA IS a top player. Especially if you compare him to Avilo. The difference in not only but skill but also (and most importantly) experience is huge. If an amateur tries to argue with an expert, it's going to be a waste of everyone's time (except for novelty/entertainment value, which is the reason he was brought on in the first place). Well since ive never seen Avilo play i will agree that Idra is most likely alot better than him. But calling Idra a "top" player, is very very far from the truth. Sure, he was a top foreigner in BW, if not THE top foreigner. But not in sc2 mate. im not an idra fan but id still consider him a top player hes had some great runs and great victories in sc2 and this is a nice little recap of those + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgeEXZENOh4&feature=player_embedded a highlight video rofl! you serious mate? however someone also said top 5 foreign zergs . another hard laugh. maybe in the beta. now not at all go to liquipedia and take 5 of the 1XX zergs that are better than him and came further in like MLGs and so on, even tefel cane further in mlg than idra. 1. Stephano 2/3. Ret/IdrA 4. Dimaga 5. Sheth Do you disagree?
Going by results in 2012, he'd end up below lesser known EU Zergs like Bly. At the very least, he should be below the five you've listed, plus Nerchio and Sen.
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On June 30 2012 03:53 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:38 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:34 ntssauce wrote:On June 30 2012 03:26 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On June 30 2012 03:16 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 30 2012 03:13 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:
[quote]
No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got.
Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know. IdrA IS a top player. Especially if you compare him to Avilo. The difference in not only but skill but also (and most importantly) experience is huge. If an amateur tries to argue with an expert, it's going to be a waste of everyone's time (except for novelty/entertainment value, which is the reason he was brought on in the first place). Well since ive never seen Avilo play i will agree that Idra is most likely alot better than him. But calling Idra a "top" player, is very very far from the truth. Sure, he was a top foreigner in BW, if not THE top foreigner. But not in sc2 mate. im not an idra fan but id still consider him a top player hes had some great runs and great victories in sc2 and this is a nice little recap of those + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgeEXZENOh4&feature=player_embedded a highlight video rofl! you serious mate? however someone also said top 5 foreign zergs . another hard laugh. maybe in the beta. now not at all go to liquipedia and take 5 of the 1XX zergs that are better than him and came further in like MLGs and so on, even tefel cane further in mlg than idra. 1. Stephano 2/3. Ret/IdrA 4. Dimaga 5. Sheth Do you disagree? You have absolutely no idea about what are you talking. Where is Nerchio ? LiveZerg ? Bly ? Sen ? Morrow ? And you also take Idra with Ret over Dimaga ? How much do you follow EU scene ?
Well it's a top five. I can't name all of the good zergs out there. I have to pick the five that have shown the greatest tournament results. The five I have chosen do the best at LAN tournaments. I considered Nerchio, but he hasn't really done anything big offline yet. LiveZerg and Bly are the same. Something could be said for Sen and Morrow, but I don't think they are quite top 5 if you look at tournament results only. Maybe substitute Sen for Sheth... But yeah I'm talking about big tournaments that actually matter: GSL, MLG, Dreamhack, IPL, and that's about it. And as far as "following the EU scene" goes, I think that's a bit silly to say. EU has its own separate scene now? If you do well in EU, you are top in the world? What is this? I look at the starcraft 2 scene as a whole. I don't separate it by server/region. If you look at actual big tournament results, this is the correct ranking.
EDIT: Actually if you consider the recent dreamhack results, I guess Dimaga's second place there puts him higher than ret/idra right now since neither of them have done better than that recently. But it's a loose ranking anyway. These are the top 5. Put them in whatever order you want.
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On June 30 2012 03:57 ntssauce wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:38 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:34 ntssauce wrote:On June 30 2012 03:26 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On June 30 2012 03:16 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 30 2012 03:13 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:
[quote]
No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got.
Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know. IdrA IS a top player. Especially if you compare him to Avilo. The difference in not only but skill but also (and most importantly) experience is huge. If an amateur tries to argue with an expert, it's going to be a waste of everyone's time (except for novelty/entertainment value, which is the reason he was brought on in the first place). Well since ive never seen Avilo play i will agree that Idra is most likely alot better than him. But calling Idra a "top" player, is very very far from the truth. Sure, he was a top foreigner in BW, if not THE top foreigner. But not in sc2 mate. im not an idra fan but id still consider him a top player hes had some great runs and great victories in sc2 and this is a nice little recap of those + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgeEXZENOh4&feature=player_embedded a highlight video rofl! you serious mate? however someone also said top 5 foreign zergs . another hard laugh. maybe in the beta. now not at all go to liquipedia and take 5 of the 1XX zergs that are better than him and came further in like MLGs and so on, even tefel cane further in mlg than idra. 1. Stephano 2/3. Ret/IdrA 4. Dimaga 5. Sheth Do you disagree? ret and idra und the same level? omg i can't believe someone would even think about that , maybe 3 classes below! but yeah don't answer please, cause you guys will stay at your opp and i will stay at mine and there is no chance to really argue with you/me becuase in such a thing there are no real arguments.
Depends what criteria you use to rank players. I think it's pretty weak to just use recent results because Ret could start slumping next week and Idra could start crushing. Sc2 players all seem pretty inconsistent these days. I think Ret is definitely stronger than Idra right now, based on 2012 results. But over the course of sc2 Idra has done much more than Ret, and has been better than Ret (and every other foreign zerg) for the majority of the time that the game's been out. It's unfortunate when people dismiss old championships as if they never meant anything.
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On June 30 2012 03:58 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:38 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:34 ntssauce wrote:On June 30 2012 03:26 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On June 30 2012 03:16 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 30 2012 03:13 MichaelDonovan wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:
[quote]
No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got.
Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up? Well idra isn't his teacher, nor is a top player. And i actually do consider all human beings to be equal. Strange thought, i know. IdrA IS a top player. Especially if you compare him to Avilo. The difference in not only but skill but also (and most importantly) experience is huge. If an amateur tries to argue with an expert, it's going to be a waste of everyone's time (except for novelty/entertainment value, which is the reason he was brought on in the first place). Well since ive never seen Avilo play i will agree that Idra is most likely alot better than him. But calling Idra a "top" player, is very very far from the truth. Sure, he was a top foreigner in BW, if not THE top foreigner. But not in sc2 mate. im not an idra fan but id still consider him a top player hes had some great runs and great victories in sc2 and this is a nice little recap of those + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgeEXZENOh4&feature=player_embedded a highlight video rofl! you serious mate? however someone also said top 5 foreign zergs . another hard laugh. maybe in the beta. now not at all go to liquipedia and take 5 of the 1XX zergs that are better than him and came further in like MLGs and so on, even tefel cane further in mlg than idra. 1. Stephano 2/3. Ret/IdrA 4. Dimaga 5. Sheth Do you disagree? Most non-idra fan boys would...... not to mention players such as Nerchio, Darkforce, Sen, Slivko, Livezerg, Lowely, Morrow, Bly and the rest who are better than him. You realize you just called a zerg with 25-30% win rate in 2012, the 2nd best foreign zerg.
Another connection between skill and win rate. People just don't learn, huh. WIN RATE DOESN'T REPRESENT SKILL!
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On June 30 2012 03:58 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:43 iky43210 wrote:On June 30 2012 03:41 a3den wrote:On June 30 2012 03:31 iky43210 wrote:On June 30 2012 03:29 crms wrote:
Wait, wait, people are grabbing pitchforks over that avilo interview? You guys fucking suck, that was NOTHING. The fuck is wrong with this community? how was it nothing. In what professional shows have you ever heard of where they invite someone to talk down to him then follows by kicking him off the show? Do you have any regards to professionalism? Incontrol and JP laughing constantly in the background while avilo talk is already unacceptable in itself. I don't care what sorry excuses they gave for that part, you should pay attention to your guest when they talk What is "professional" about SOTG exactly ? It began as a grassroots community show and it still is, nobody is really paid for this (they don't even display any ads) and it's not part of their regular jobs. Please stop using the word professionalism, you clearly don't know what it is. you don't need to be paid or it needs to be part of a job for people to act professional. They don't have to act professionally, it is their show afterall. But there is nothing wrong with stating how unprofessional they conduct themselves over this episode I agree... but the line needs to be drawn at some point when people insist on complaining over and over about it, and trying their best to blow it out of proportion. Avilo talked over IdrA, and IdrA told him to shut the fuck up and called him terrible at the game. Yeah, that's not professional. Yeah, that's not the best way to handle the situation. Still... it's not a big deal. Please stop treating it like one and please stop trying to victimize Avilo as if they all ganged up on him and spent the entire time throwing insults.
Idra insulting isn't what crossed the line, that's within viewers expectation. What really crossed the line was the constant background laughter, the pre-invitation bashing, incontrol's interruption, and hanging up on a guest. This whole situation would have not blown up like it did if they pay attention to what their guest is saying, or simply end the discussion and give a shoutout to avilo before hanging up on the call.
Hell, probably just saying something along the line of "this discussion isn't going anywhere, lets move on. Thanks for coming Avilo" would have completely averted this drama
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EPT
