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On December 15 2011 03:05 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:55 Teoita wrote:
As i pointed out in the main thread, i think both sides are in the wrong one way or another.
Naniwa's decision to probe rush was silly and i'm sure he somewhat regrets it; if he had done a sucky 4gate (which would also have lost him the game) or whatever he would have not received this kind of backlash and the punishment from gom, even though in essence it's the same thing. Wether throwing away a televised game vs Nestea is a good idea or not is another discussion; let's assume that somehow he would have done it anyway.
On the other hand, gom is now over reacting imo. Frist off, their rule about "disrespecting the opponent" is too vague to be applied; secondly, none seems to exactly know where Naniwa's code s seed came from. If it came from the MLG deal, then it's a much bigger deal because it's Gom backing off of a deal they have done with another business organization (MLG). If instead his seed came from the fact that they were considering him as a foreigner to invite and decided to invite someone else instead, it's a smaller punishent but it does raise the question of who got the Providence seed then?
Overall it's an unfortunate combination of bad judgements from both parts, the community loving drama and making extremes out of things, and bad tournament rules and/or contracts between MLG and Gom. I actually think naniwa just took it to the extreme, but he is literally fine-polishing e-sports as a whole with this action. Remember the tournament with Bratok-Stephano (i think ESWC?) where they BOTH were losing on purpose, because the loser would not face Sen? yea that was completely the tournaments fault and they took the blame. Same goes for the Naniwa incident. It is completely Gom's fault for providing a competition which lacks the competitive factor. You give players an incentive to win, and they will try to win. You give players no incentive to win, and they won't try. A player has no responsibility towards the viewers to entertain them, he has the responsibility to maximize his own benefit. The person who shoulders the responsibility to entertain the viewers is GomTV, hence why you, the viewers pay GomTV rather than naniwa or idra. I can assure you after this day, all major tournaments will make all games matter to avoid this fiasco.
Firstly, before I address this post, let me say that I have hereby corrected my lack of knowledge regarding the Naniwa invite/earned seed, I was not aware GOM was manipulating the context of the seed he earned to suit their justification of punishment.
Now onto your post, why should a tournament have to give you incentive to win? What incentive to do have to win a local basketball tournament in your neighborhood for absolutely no prize? What incentive do you have to go the extra mile in a paper even though you're not getting any extra credit for it? It's called pride, it's called having respect for your opponent, and it's called having the knowledge to know that you JUST joined a new team and you have something to prove to them as well.
A player has no responsibility towards the viewers? Are people seriously saying this? Who buys the HD passes? Who tunes in at 3am on a school night just to see a player stream for 20 minutes? Who gets a 2nd job just to have enough money to fly out to an MLG ONCE a year just to see these guys play? Where the hell would SC2 be if NOT for it's incredible viewer base? Yes, GOM has the responsibility to entertain us, but that responsibility is operated through the players.
If everyone in the world operated for the sole reason of "maximizing their own benefit", the world would be a very, very sad place indeed.
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However one must look at it from a GOM TV money making perspective, they offer money for the players to provide entertainment which means they should play the game properly. Think of it as any performer, you pay to see a good performance if the guy just goes out say a joke and then go backstage they don't get what they they paid for. They have to get money from commercials, which required games and longer entertaining ones at that to maintain or increase their viewership. If a player goes against that in the way that Naniwa did, it would provide a tv channel with huge problems. Hence, he does not deserve the spot because GOM is not some philantropical organization providing a prize just to find out who is the best player in the world, they want something in return.
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On December 15 2011 03:05 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:55 Teoita wrote:
As i pointed out in the main thread, i think both sides are in the wrong one way or another.
Naniwa's decision to probe rush was silly and i'm sure he somewhat regrets it; if he had done a sucky 4gate (which would also have lost him the game) or whatever he would have not received this kind of backlash and the punishment from gom, even though in essence it's the same thing. Wether throwing away a televised game vs Nestea is a good idea or not is another discussion; let's assume that somehow he would have done it anyway.
On the other hand, gom is now over reacting imo. Frist off, their rule about "disrespecting the opponent" is too vague to be applied; secondly, none seems to exactly know where Naniwa's code s seed came from. If it came from the MLG deal, then it's a much bigger deal because it's Gom backing off of a deal they have done with another business organization (MLG). If instead his seed came from the fact that they were considering him as a foreigner to invite and decided to invite someone else instead, it's a smaller punishent but it does raise the question of who got the Providence seed then?
Overall it's an unfortunate combination of bad judgements from both parts, the community loving drama and making extremes out of things, and bad tournament rules and/or contracts between MLG and Gom. I actually think naniwa just took it to the extreme, but he is literally fine-polishing e-sports as a whole with this action. Remember the tournament with Bratok-Stephano (i think ESWC?) where they BOTH were losing on purpose, because the loser would not face Sen? yea that was completely the tournaments fault and they took the blame. Same goes for the Naniwa incident. It is completely Gom's fault for providing a competition which lacks the competitive factor. You give players an incentive to win, and they will try to win. You give players no incentive to win, and they won't try. A player has no responsibility towards the viewers to entertain them, he has the responsibility to maximize his own benefit. The person who shoulders the responsibility to entertain the viewers is GomTV, hence why you, the viewers pay GomTV rather than naniwa or idra. I can assure you after this day, all major tournaments will make all games matter to avoid this fiasco.
While I agree that both may be at fault, you can't say that GOMtv is at fault for the lack of incentives.
GOMtv may have overreacted, but they have given Naniwa his chance.
No, WAIT: not only he had his chance, they even payed him to play, he will get 840 $!
If you are payed to play you play, period.
While BratOk vs Stephano was hilarious and disgusting at the same time, at least a viewer could think that they were still playing like that to be put in a more advantageous position later in the event.
This case is different.
However yes, it's unlikely that it will happen again.
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On December 15 2011 03:21 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:05 sekritzzz wrote:On December 15 2011 02:55 Teoita wrote:
As i pointed out in the main thread, i think both sides are in the wrong one way or another.
Naniwa's decision to probe rush was silly and i'm sure he somewhat regrets it; if he had done a sucky 4gate (which would also have lost him the game) or whatever he would have not received this kind of backlash and the punishment from gom, even though in essence it's the same thing. Wether throwing away a televised game vs Nestea is a good idea or not is another discussion; let's assume that somehow he would have done it anyway.
On the other hand, gom is now over reacting imo. Frist off, their rule about "disrespecting the opponent" is too vague to be applied; secondly, none seems to exactly know where Naniwa's code s seed came from. If it came from the MLG deal, then it's a much bigger deal because it's Gom backing off of a deal they have done with another business organization (MLG). If instead his seed came from the fact that they were considering him as a foreigner to invite and decided to invite someone else instead, it's a smaller punishent but it does raise the question of who got the Providence seed then?
Overall it's an unfortunate combination of bad judgements from both parts, the community loving drama and making extremes out of things, and bad tournament rules and/or contracts between MLG and Gom. I actually think naniwa just took it to the extreme, but he is literally fine-polishing e-sports as a whole with this action. Remember the tournament with Bratok-Stephano (i think ESWC?) where they BOTH were losing on purpose, because the loser would not face Sen? yea that was completely the tournaments fault and they took the blame. Same goes for the Naniwa incident. It is completely Gom's fault for providing a competition which lacks the competitive factor. You give players an incentive to win, and they will try to win. You give players no incentive to win, and they won't try. A player has no responsibility towards the viewers to entertain them, he has the responsibility to maximize his own benefit. The person who shoulders the responsibility to entertain the viewers is GomTV, hence why you, the viewers pay GomTV rather than naniwa or idra. I can assure you after this day, all major tournaments will make all games matter to avoid this fiasco. Firstly, before I address this post, let me say that I have hereby corrected my lack of knowledge regarding the Naniwa invite/earned seed, I was not aware GOM was manipulating the context of the seed he earned to suit their justification of punishment. Now onto your post, why should a tournament have to give you incentive to win? What incentive to do have to win a local basketball tournament in your neighborhood for absolutely no prize? What incentive do you have to go the extra mile in a paper even though you're not getting any extra credit for it? It's called pride, it's called having respect for your opponent, and it's called having the knowledge to know that you JUST joined a new team and you have something to prove to them as well. A player has no responsibility towards the viewers? Are people seriously saying this? Who buys the HD passes? Who tunes in at 3am on a school night just to see a player stream for 20 minutes? Who gets a 2nd job just to have enough money to fly out to an MLG ONCE a year just to see these guys play? Where the hell would SC2 be if NOT for it's incredible viewer base? Yes, GOM has the responsibility to entertain us, but that responsibility is operated through the players. If everyone in the world operated for the sole reason of "maximizing their own benefit", the world would be a very, very sad place indeed.
I understand where you are coming from and I agree with you to a certain extent that viewers make the scene happen. This is completely different from giving players the incentive to actually becoming competitive and providing passionate games for the viewers. What if a tournament decided to give players who come in last the highest financial reward and players who come first the lowest financial reward? You and I both know that the tournament would be an utter failure before it even starts, regardless of how much passion and love the player has for said game. Although you point stands regarding a local basketball tournament, in most tournaments financial benefits is what counts and that's the world we live in today(let it be from prize money or sponsors).
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doesn't blizzard fund the gsl anyways? as much as Koreans like to overact due to the controversy long ago with the match fixing broodwar debacle , its blizzards money at stake here, they should be calling the shots on who gets banned, Foreigners have nobody in code S, i doubt huk can make it back in as the up and downs are too stacked. If they really want not to loose like 1/2 the paying customers over this , i'd say just ban him for 1 season and do not revoke his code S spot. Nani is at fault, but so is the tournament structure. Cant believe they ban somebody liek this, realise it hurts the foriegn spectator scene, then pull some Free Code S b.s with idra and sen , Like why sen? why not xigua who came 2nd at wcg? or 2nd place ipl3? whats the qualifications ?
I bet 100$ that if it was NASL pulling a stunt like this, people would be insulting NASL 24/7 saying oh bad structure , crappy tournament, stupid decision .
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So JPs post saying uploading would take another 32 minutes is now about 40 mins old, converting shouldn't take longer than the upload itself.
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8748 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:47 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot. No he actually earned that spot. yep he earned it from MLG Providence, getting 2nd to Leenock who was already in Code S. if gomtv doesn't agree with that, then they need to take it up with MLG and there are much more serious problems afoot. anyway, the reason they lost respect is because they're doing something that isn't optimal for anyone or anything. as far as i can tell, the only explanation for this move is that they've made it personal with naniwa and they just want to hurt him. and unlike naniwa, who made a bad decision when in a situation where it's very difficult to think clearly and have a good perspective, gomtv folks actually took their time responding to this incident, so that they could think perfectly clearly about it and consult people and get a good perspective and make the best move possible. and yet they still do something that's more destructive than constructive, same as naniwa. and i think that falling back on cultural differences is just insulting their critical thinking ability and their competence as international businessmen. that is, if they were competent at their jobs and were able to think like intelligent adults, they would not do non-optimal things for cultural reasons. They're doing it for business reasons. They need to send the message that it's not okay to do things like this, so this punishment accomplishes that. It tells the viewers "this is a serious competition, every match, and we want to keep it that way so you get value for your money." Whether it's a good business decision is another question, but I seriously doubt they are doing it to be vindictive towards Naniwa.
i dont know what punishing naniwa by revoking the code S spot he earned accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished in any other way.
i have already discussed this issue with a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people and one of the points that is pretty much universally agreed upon is that the organization running the competition is in the best position to prevent this from happening. they prevent it from happening by removing any possibility for inconsequential games and by making sure players know in advance that they will be required to try their hardest in every match in order to participate in their event. the most effective way of preventing it is certainly not making an example out of the guy who did it ignorantly. no one has ever suggested that.
gomtv decides to act on a very vague rule with a very severe punishment, why? naniwa's offense was not clearly defined going into the tournament and there was no hint at what the punishment would be at all. i can't read the original korean, so i can't speak with complete confidence, but it seems to me like the application of the rule they cite is quite a stretch based on the translation. and they just make up a punishment when someone breaks it. they're very far removed from proper and effective use of a system of rules and penalties. they certainly were not compelled by their own rules to do what they did. so using this rule is an excuse to punish him.
what this move accomplishes business-wise is to make everyone working with them fear them. if you do anything that they don't expect, anything that they weren't clear on or didn't bring up at all, and it works against them, then you should expect a very severe response from them. even if they set you up to do something that's bad for them, they'll still not say anything beforehand and if you go ahead and do something that's bad for them, they retaliate harshly.
imo the standard good business philosophy is to cover your ass as much as possible. and when a business fails to do so, it minimizes damages and learns and fixes the problem for the future. if you are the big kid on the block and you wanna be a bully, then yeah you can be careless and when something goes wrong, don't admit fault and then slap the other guy down and make everyone hate him. if they really think that's optimal, then i'll admit that i don't know everything they know about their own business, so i can't press that too hard. all i can say is it's very improbable that that is optimal. and even if it is optimal for their own business, it's not optimal for the industry. so even if you do want to shield them with "they're just doing what they think is best for their business" i still lose 3 respect points for them.
if they owned up to their mistake and stood by naniwa, then i think this is a situation where it's quite possible to use propaganda (not in an evil deceptive way, but legitimate propaganda to get the masses to understand your decision and agree with it) to make themselves look good, make naniwa look good (which they want because he's in their league and he's one of the few foreigners, extra valuable to them) and make their league look stronger than ever heading into the new year. but no, they're apparently incapable of that (either because of incompetence or emotions).
edit: apparently the conduct rule wasnt used in the official explanation. if that's true, then it's even worse. they went from having a rule that, when stretched, barely is reasonable, to having no rule and just a spontaneous penalty.
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On December 15 2011 03:28 jinixxx123 wrote:
doesn't blizzard fund the gsl anyways? as much as Koreans like to overact due to the controversy long ago with the match fixing broodwar debacle , its blizzards money at stake here, they should be calling the shots on who gets banned, Foreigners have nobody in code S, i doubt huk can make it back in as the up and downs are too stacked. If they really want not to loose like 1/2 the paying customers over this , i'd say just ban him for 1 season and do not revoke his code S spot. Nani is at fault, but so is the tournament structure. Cant believe they ban somebody liek this, realise it hurts the foriegn spectator scene, then pull some Free Code S b.s with idra and sen , Like why sen? why not xigua who came 2nd at wcg? or 2nd place ipl3? whats the qualifications ?
I bet 100$ that if it was NASL pulling a stunt like this, people would be insulting NASL 24/7 saying oh bad structure , crappy tournament, stupid decision .
Sen has been a dominant foreigner at tons of tournaments. IdrA has been a dominant foreigner at tons of tournaments since beta, AND has a Code S history.
Not to mention Xigua's ONLY result in the public eye is that 2nd place at WCG. That's it. Aside from Huk, IdrA and Sen have been pretty much the most consistent and dominant foreigners.
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On December 15 2011 03:29 Lorch wrote:
So JPs post saying uploading would take another 32 minutes is now about 40 mins old, converting shouldn't take longer than the upload itself.
itmeJP JP McDaniel
VOD is processing in brightcove right now, i'd say 30-40 minutes since the file is so big
1 minute ago
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On December 15 2011 03:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:47 Whitewing wrote:On December 15 2011 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot. No he actually earned that spot. yep he earned it from MLG Providence, getting 2nd to Leenock who was already in Code S. if gomtv doesn't agree with that, then they need to take it up with MLG and there are much more serious problems afoot. anyway, the reason they lost respect is because they're doing something that isn't optimal for anyone or anything. as far as i can tell, the only explanation for this move is that they've made it personal with naniwa and they just want to hurt him. and unlike naniwa, who made a bad decision when in a situation where it's very difficult to think clearly and have a good perspective, gomtv folks actually took their time responding to this incident, so that they could think perfectly clearly about it and consult people and get a good perspective and make the best move possible. and yet they still do something that's more destructive than constructive, same as naniwa. and i think that falling back on cultural differences is just insulting their critical thinking ability and their competence as international businessmen. that is, if they were competent at their jobs and were able to think like intelligent adults, they would not do non-optimal things for cultural reasons. They're doing it for business reasons. They need to send the message that it's not okay to do things like this, so this punishment accomplishes that. It tells the viewers "this is a serious competition, every match, and we want to keep it that way so you get value for your money." Whether it's a good business decision is another question, but I seriously doubt they are doing it to be vindictive towards Naniwa. i dont know what punishing naniwa by revoking the code S spot he earned accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished in any other way. i have already discussed this issue with a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people and one of the points that is pretty much universally agreed upon is that the organization running the competition is in the best position to prevent this from happening. they prevent it from happening by removing any possibility for inconsequential games and by making sure players know in advance that they will be required to try their hardest in every match in order to participate in their event. the most effective way of preventing it is certainly not making an example out of the guy who did it ignorantly. no one has ever suggested that. gomtv decides to act on a very vague rule with a very severe punishment, why? naniwa's offense was not clearly defined going into the tournament and there was no hint at what the punishment would be at all. i can't read the original korean, so i can't speak with complete confidence, but it seems to me like the application of the rule they cite is quite a stretch based on the translation. and they just make up a punishment when someone breaks it. they're very far removed from proper and effective use of a system of rules and penalties. they certainly were not compelled by their own rules to do what they did. so using this rule is an excuse to punish him. what this move accomplishes business-wise is to make everyone working with them fear them. if you do anything that they don't expect, anything that they weren't clear on or didn't bring up at all, and it works against them, then you should expect a very severe response from them. even if they set you up to do something that's bad for them, they'll still not say anything beforehand and if you go ahead and do something that's bad for them, they retaliate harshly. imo the standard good business philosophy is to cover your ass as much as possible. and when a business fails to do so, it minimizes damages and learns and fixes the problem for the future. if you are the big kid on the block and you wanna be a bully, then yeah you can be careless and when something goes wrong, don't admit fault and then slap the other guy down and make everyone hate him. if they really think that's optimal, then i'll admit that i don't know everything they know about their own business, so i can't press that too hard. all i can say is it's very improbable that that is optimal. and even if it is optimal for their own business, it's not optimal for the industry. so even if you do want to shield them with "they're just doing what they think is best for their business" i still lose 3 respect points for them. if they owned up to their mistake and stood by naniwa, then i think this is a situation where it's quite possible to use propaganda (not in an evil deceptive way, but legitimate propaganda to get the masses to understand your decision and agree with it) to make themselves look good, make naniwa look good (which they want because he's in their league and he's one of the few foreigners, extra valuable to them) and make their league look stronger than ever heading into the new year. but no, they're apparently incapable of that (either because of incompetence or emotions).
well said, i don't think it's incompetence, probably emotions and the sAviOr effect still lingering around korean starcraft. theres no way blatant throwing of a game doesn't get punished after sAviOr
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Well said Tyler.
I think GOM is catering too much to the Korean outrage, and not at all to foreigners, which is weird as hell because they so desperately want to see foreigners not fail in GSL.
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You must watch this show. Omg so funny. When tylers drunk he laughs at like every little thing it's great.
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I think the most important thing to note, for me, is that this was in no way a result that helps GOM. No one, or very few, will decide to purchase season tickets largely based on such an incident. On the flipside, you can be pretty much guaranteed that some people - it's hard to say how many - will view this incident as a catalyst for them deciding not to buy the tickets.
Personally, I wasn't entirely sure whether or not I wanted to buy the season ticket(s). This hasn't decided anything for me, but I can definitely say that no Naniwa in Code S makes it less likely that I will watch. Partly because I'm a fan of Naniwa, and him being a foreigner in Korea strengthens that, and partly because of how GOM handled this whole ordeal.
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Actually at the begining I thought that it was a reasonable punishement to not "invite" him to code S. But I had forgoten that Naniwa had earned his code S spot ( and his code A spot as well), and that Gom twisted their rules to kick him out without saying so... and that's seriously unnaceptable.
I understand cultural differences, what naniwa did was extremely stupid but this reaction from Gom is low... honestly inviting 2 progamers because of popularity and not giving the prize that Naniwa earned at mlg (code S spot) is really disgusting.
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On December 15 2011 02:47 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:31 Flonomenalz wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot. No he actually earned that spot. Either that or somebody fucked up because just about anyone paying attention was under the assumption he was already in Code S January 2012. GOM should've just made him apologize. No he did NOT earn the spot. Please look at the "Naniwa not invited to Code S" OP. He was being CONSIDERED for the spot and was a favorite probably. Not anymore. that's what the children at gomtv are saying. check out this post where a guy has gathered several quotes of MLG saying that naniwa got a Code S spot http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nc8g6/naniwa_loses_code_s_spot/c37zdqg
Yeh. I'm still waiting on an official response from Sundance or an article on MLG about this. What slasher said doesn't mean much to me.
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On December 15 2011 03:54 Benjef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:47 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:31 Flonomenalz wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot. No he actually earned that spot. Either that or somebody fucked up because just about anyone paying attention was under the assumption he was already in Code S January 2012. GOM should've just made him apologize. No he did NOT earn the spot. Please look at the "Naniwa not invited to Code S" OP. He was being CONSIDERED for the spot and was a favorite probably. Not anymore. that's what the children at gomtv are saying. check out this post where a guy has gathered several quotes of MLG saying that naniwa got a Code S spot http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nc8g6/naniwa_loses_code_s_spot/c37zdqg Yeh. I'm still waiting on an official response from Sundance or an article on MLG about this. What slasher said doesn't mean much to me.
MLG will most likely cover up for GOM anyway, both because it's good for future business and because they don't really have any reason to stand up to naniwa(since he called MLG a joke tournament).
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While Naniwa did a stupid thing, he cant be denied his place. He earned it and gom cant pull his seed (or place w/e) on a vague rule...
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On December 15 2011 03:54 Benjef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:47 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:31 Flonomenalz wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot. No he actually earned that spot. Either that or somebody fucked up because just about anyone paying attention was under the assumption he was already in Code S January 2012. GOM should've just made him apologize. No he did NOT earn the spot. Please look at the "Naniwa not invited to Code S" OP. He was being CONSIDERED for the spot and was a favorite probably. Not anymore. that's what the children at gomtv are saying. check out this post where a guy has gathered several quotes of MLG saying that naniwa got a Code S spot http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nc8g6/naniwa_loses_code_s_spot/c37zdqg Yeh. I'm still waiting on an official response from Sundance or an article on MLG about this. What slasher said doesn't mean much to me.
MLG_Adam already discredited Slasher and said that Slasher is not an MLG representative, rather he is part of the video department and it was merely his opinion rather than fact. However an official word from MLG still has yet to come out so a lot of people are waiting for it but its hard to wiggle your way out when there is about 8 articles (5 from MLG) stating he got the Code-S spot.
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Naniwa has been nothing but a BM douche since day 1 and I'm glad he's finally being punished for his actions. It's harsh and kind of bullshit, but he needs to grow up and act like a goddamn professional in front of huge audiences.
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@Tyler, just curious and please don't take this the wrong way, but typically (not that this is really precedented) how would your sponsors react if you just threw a match?
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EPT
