EPTOfficial State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1940
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
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NonY
8750 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:31 Flonomenalz wrote: No he did NOT earn the spot. Please look at the "Naniwa not invited to Code S" OP. He was being CONSIDERED for the spot and was a favorite probably. Not anymore. that's what the children at gomtv are saying. check out this post where a guy has gathered several quotes of MLG saying that naniwa got a Code S spot http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nc8g6/naniwa_loses_code_s_spot/c37zdqg | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote: yep he earned it from MLG Providence, getting 2nd to Leenock who was already in Code S. if gomtv doesn't agree with that, then they need to take it up with MLG and there are much more serious problems afoot. anyway, the reason they lost respect is because they're doing something that isn't optimal for anyone or anything. as far as i can tell, the only explanation for this move is that they've made it personal with naniwa and they just want to hurt him. and unlike naniwa, who made a bad decision when in a situation where it's very difficult to think clearly and have a good perspective, gomtv folks actually took their time responding to this incident, so that they could think perfectly clearly about it and consult people and get a good perspective and make the best move possible. and yet they still do something that's more destructive than constructive, same as naniwa. and i think that falling back on cultural differences is just insulting their critical thinking ability and their competence as international businessmen. that is, if they were competent at their jobs and were able to think like intelligent adults, they would not do non-optimal things for cultural reasons. They're doing it for business reasons. They need to send the message that it's not okay to do things like this, so this punishment accomplishes that. It tells the viewers "this is a serious competition, every match, and we want to keep it that way so you get value for your money." Whether it's a good business decision is another question, but I seriously doubt they are doing it to be vindictive towards Naniwa. | ||
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NonY
8750 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:44 Whitewing wrote: Okay, so how do you define a respect point? Are we talking "Eh, I'm slightly dissapointed, won't really change my behavior, but I'm not all that happy about it. Oh well."? Or perhaps "I will never support GOMtv ever again."? Or somewhere in the middle? that's all i can say is that a respect point is a unit of respect. as i report my respect points more and more, you can figure out a relative value for them. | ||
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Sneakyz
Sweden2361 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:29 Flonomenalz wrote: i didnt i expected this much. korean culture + probe rush vs nestea..... how many sc2 players can only DREAM of playing against nestea in a meaningless game where nestea off races and plays with 1 hand, much less playing against nestea in the blizzard cup and having a RIVALRY with him. whether or not the games mattered is completely besides the point, you're constantly switching teams, trying to prove you deserve to be with the best, and you go out and do that and expect GOM to sit there and do nothing? Nah, I think it's well deserved. It's only one season. Imagine if it was a Korean that did it. He'd be out for 100 seasons, kicked out of team house.... Koreans would probably get even worse treatment indeed, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. I would agree that some kind of punishment should be dealt to naniwa, say a ridiculous fine or something like that, to show that the kind of behaviour is not tolerated in Korea. But removing someones code S invite for probe rushing in a game that probably shouldn't even have been played, the first time it happens, that's just retarded to me. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote: i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa I gained 5 respect points for Gom for kicking naniwa. It was appropriate punishment for what he did. Plus to be honest, I was more upset at Gom for kicking coca and byun, but still didn't lose any respect for them there. (And yes I'm aware slayers did that, but let's be honest if slayers didn't do it, gom would have stepped in.) | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
Late T_T | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
Naniwa's decision to probe rush was silly and i'm sure he somewhat regrets it; if he had done a sucky 4gate (which would also have lost him the game) or whatever he would have not received this kind of backlash and the punishment from gom, even though in essence it's the same thing. Wether throwing away a televised game vs Nestea is a good idea or not is another discussion; let's assume that somehow he would have done it anyway. On the other hand, gom is now over reacting imo. Frist off, their rule about "disrespecting the opponent" is too vague to be applied; secondly, none seems to exactly know where Naniwa's code s seed came from. If it came from the MLG deal, then it's a much bigger deal because it's Gom backing off of a deal they have done with another business organization (MLG). If instead his seed came from the fact that they were considering him as a foreigner to invite and decided to invite someone else instead, it's a smaller punishent but it does raise the question of who got the Providence seed then? Overall it's an unfortunate combination of bad judgements from both parts, the community loving drama and making extremes out of things, and bad tournament rules and/or contracts between MLG and Gom. | ||
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NietzscheanKant
Finland92 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:50 Canucklehead wrote: I gained 5 respect points for Gom for kicking naniwa. It was appropriate punishment for what he did. Plus to be honest, I was more upset at Gom for kicking coca and byun, but still didn't lose any respect for them there. (And yes I'm aware slayers did that, but let's be honest if slayers didn't do it, gom would have stepped in.) So... it's far worse to throw away a meaningless game he had asked to be forfeited than it is to purposively lose a match when there is a Code A spot on the line? It's ridiculous that had Naniwa done a halfhearted 4gate for the sake of appearances he would not have been punished in any way. Simply because he was honest about his opinion on the match, he must be punished. (And not with a warning, fine, or something, but revoking a damn Code S seed... why that's just entry to the upper echelon of the most prestigious and challenging SCII tournament in the world.) | ||
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obsidia
122 Posts
the format was flawed and created an essentially meaningless game, time and time again pro players have stated that they dont care about producting good games for the audience its all about winning for them, surely thats a reasonable statement for a professional who's income relys on this. so why the fk would a pro player care about a game when there is absolutely nothing on the line. Nani rightly stated he wouldnt have had the motivation to play 100% during that game even if he wanted too, and everyone instantly slags him saying "OMG WHAT AN INSULT TO NESTEA" I would consider it more of an insult that the majority of the community are such selfish children that scream for his head. remember you aren't owed ANYTHING from pro players, if they happen to have an absolutely epic series then enjoy it, but when they arent motivated because they arent in a position to earn money, then you get whats given to you. also as tyler said, Im dissapointed that GOMTV has taken such an unproffesional approach to the situation. tyler EARNT that spot and they have lost a lost of respect and alot of viewers ( me inclucded ) for being so childish. This is naniwas career and they are directly and unfairly impeeding it because of some BS they create. | ||
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m3rciless
United States1476 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote: yep he earned it from MLG Providence, getting 2nd to Leenock who was already in Code S. if gomtv doesn't agree with that, then they need to take it up with MLG and there are much more serious problems afoot. anyway, the reason they lost respect is because they're doing something that isn't optimal for anyone or anything. as far as i can tell, the only explanation for this move is that they've made it personal with naniwa and they just want to hurt him. and unlike naniwa, who made a bad decision when in a situation where it's very difficult to think clearly and have a good perspective, gomtv folks actually took their time responding to this incident, so that they could think perfectly clearly about it and consult people and get a good perspective and make the best move possible. and yet they still do something that's more destructive than constructive, same as naniwa. and i think that falling back on cultural differences is just insulting their critical thinking ability and their competence as international businessmen. that is, if they were competent at their jobs and were able to think like intelligent adults, they would not do non-optimal things for cultural reasons. fighting! Well said as always. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:55 Teoita wrote: As i pointed out in the main thread, i think both sides are in the wrong one way or another. Naniwa's decision to probe rush was silly and i'm sure he somewhat regrets it; if he had done a sucky 4gate (which would also have lost him the game) or whatever he would have not received this kind of backlash and the punishment from gom, even though in essence it's the same thing. Wether throwing away a televised game vs Nestea is a good idea or not is another discussion; let's assume that somehow he would have done it anyway. On the other hand, gom is now over reacting imo. Frist off, their rule about "disrespecting the opponent" is too vague to be applied; secondly, none seems to exactly know where Naniwa's code s seed came from. If it came from the MLG deal, then it's a much bigger deal because it's Gom backing off of a deal they have done with another business organization (MLG). If instead his seed came from the fact that they were considering him as a foreigner to invite and decided to invite someone else instead, it's a smaller punishent but it does raise the question of who got the Providence seed then? Overall it's an unfortunate combination of bad judgements from both parts, the community loving drama and making extremes out of things, and bad tournament rules and/or contracts between MLG and Gom. I actually think naniwa just took it to the extreme, but he is literally fine-polishing e-sports as a whole with this action. Remember the tournament with Bratok-Stephano (i think ESWC?) where they BOTH were losing on purpose, because the loser would not face Sen? yea that was completely the tournaments fault and they took the blame. Same goes for the Naniwa incident. It is completely Gom's fault for providing a competition which lacks the competitive factor. You give players an incentive to win, and they will try to win. You give players no incentive to win, and they won't try. A player has no responsibility towards the viewers to entertain them, he has the responsibility to maximize his own benefit. The person who shoulders the responsibility to entertain the viewers is GomTV, hence why you, the viewers pay GomTV rather than naniwa or idra. I can assure you after this day, all major tournaments will make all games matter to avoid this fiasco. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:47 Liquid`Tyler wrote: that's what the children at gomtv are saying. check out this post where a guy has gathered several quotes of MLG saying that naniwa got a Code S spot http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nc8g6/naniwa_loses_code_s_spot/c37zdqg That's the most insulting thing to me; the fact that GOM are trying to rewrite history by saying that they had actually invited Naniwa to Code S rather than him earning the spot when it's just demonstrably untrue. Kicking him out of Code S annoyed me, lying about it made me seethe. And the fact that some gullible people with short memories just swallow it because they want to see Naniwa punished... | ||
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Fantuz
Canada1 Post
I haven't listened to the episode yet or combed through the other pages so sorry if I am repeating other peoples opinions, just throwing in my two cents so I can procrastinate studying for finals! | ||
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laharl23
United States582 Posts
well i don't understand it, if he bad mannered a guy or purposely threw a game in the gsl code s i would agree with the decision, but he probe rushed in a pointless game that has nothing to do with code s. | ||
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iloveAthene
186 Posts
You were quite respectful to Mia last night also | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
On December 15 2011 03:05 The KY wrote: That's the most insulting thing to me; the fact that GOM are trying to rewrite history by saying that they had actually invited Naniwa to Code S rather than him earning the spot when it's just demonstrably untrue. Kicking him out of Code S annoyed me, lying about it made me seethe. And the fact that some gullible people with short memories just swallow it because they want to see Naniwa punished... They actually twisted the story one more time which is infuriating me because it makes absolutely no sense what so ever. It just feels like they are trying to save face now, they need to apologize and get this behind them. From the Main thread: On December 14 2011 18:38 CommunitySC wrote: Please see below. 1) Due to LXP agreement, Naniwa earned a Code S Seed. 2) 2012 had a format change, where GOM had two "code s seed" spots that they were going to use as invites instead of a direct MLG seed like the 2011 season. Due to this format change, Naniwa was supposed to be one of these code s seed invites instead of getting that direct MLG seed 3) Since they were spots they were going to use as invites, they saw yesterday's games and revoked that invitation using the excuse that it's an invitation. Apparently he earned a Code-S Seed from Providence now...... but because the 2012 format changed they made it "invites" and now..... because they are "invites" they are allowed to revoke them...... yea..... Code-S spot was part of the prize and I feel they robbed him of it. If I was a pro-gamer, the Code-S would be worth more than 10k to me, and if a tournament robbed me of my 10k i'd be furious. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On December 15 2011 03:11 sekritzzz wrote: They actually twisted the story one more time which is infuriating me because it makes absolutely no sense what so ever. It just feels like they are trying to save face now, they need to apologize and get this behind them. From the Main thread: Apparently he earned a Code-S Seed from Providence now...... but because the 2012 format changed they made it "invites" and now..... because they are "invites" they are allowed to revoke them...... yea..... Code-S spot was part of the prize and I feel they robbed him of it. If I was a pro-gamer, the Code-S would be worth more than 10k to me, and if a tournament robbed me of my 10k i'd be furious. I mean...at least be fucking honest about it. We all know this invite stuff is bullshit; he won the Code S spot, it was clearly stated, the rules were clearly stated, it was all generally pretty fucking clear. Dunno how anyone can defend the bit where they twist the past to try and make it seem like they're respecting the rules they themselves helped make.. | ||
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Rocor
United States55 Posts
per the Naniwa stuff, just imagine what it would be like if NFL teams refused to take the field if they were eliminated from the playoffs... it would completely F. the sponsorship for the league It's not perfect but a line had to be drawn, in the long run it's for the best If you are playing in a major sponsored tourney in front of thousands of people, then man up and give them a show even if it's halfhearted.. | ||
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AlternativeEgo
Sweden17309 Posts
JP McDaniel its great to wake up with a text from your family members asking why a picture of you with a tequila gun is on the internet :´D <3 | ||
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