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On June 29 2011 10:05 jlake02 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 09:50 Zinroc wrote:On June 29 2011 09:48 ClysmiC wrote:On June 29 2011 09:46 Stijn wrote:
Basically, SotG was about to get a sponsor deal from a team that was not EG, creating an obvious conflict of interest for Incontrol. In mutual understanding EG decided to set up their own show (Inside the Game), with Incontrol on it. The SotG deal fell through but ITG was already mostly set up so they decided to go through with it? This is how I understand it. I think Razor wanted to sponsor SOTG while EG has Steelseries... Just guessing no proof, but its the only real sponsor conflict in the Esports scene. I appreciate Alex Garfield maintaining the confidentiality of those involved, but I'm willing to go on the record and reveal that compLexity arranged a strong sponsorship for SotG with SoundBlaster gaming. The deal would have put money in the pockets of all of the co-hosts. We did it because we love the show and felt it would be a great investment for our sponsor. JP liked the idea but did not accept the offer because it meant losing Geoff, which we understood.
Well damn. That is just straight up depressing. =(
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Seems to me like ITG shouldn't have been conceived at all, and geoff should use that free time to practice. the center of this drama seems to be who gets geoff, and geoff chose the side with more money over the more popular, grassroots show.
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So this is really coming down to JP not agreeing with EGs sponsor proposition to be able to keep geoff on the show..
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They could have just said sponsor conflict and that would have been good enough for me but the whole denying what the community figured was the issue in the first place when it turned out to be right on the money annoys the hell outta me.
In the end they ended up releasing the information anyway, after the crappy PR mess rather than before.
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Killing esports? no. Ruining my enjoyment of something related to esports because they want more money then yes. Anyway I wont be watching any of the eg shows.
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State of the Game is coming back with MLG production behind it, and it is going to smash some nerd faces into the ground.
Can't wait!
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On June 29 2011 10:20 caelym wrote:
Seems to me like ITG shouldn't have been conceived at all, and geoff should use that free time to practice. the center of this drama seems to be who gets geoff, and geoff chose the side with more money over the more popular, grassroots show.
It's about JP even considering a sponsor that is in direct conflict with one of his prominent cast members.
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On June 29 2011 10:19 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:17 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:10 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:09 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? There is a difference between being unable to make a statement , and making a false statement. The statement they made was perfectly true without touching other people's (JP's) business. Going back and forth with you isn't getting anybody anywhere. What I got from EG (before today) was that they had nothing to do with iNcontroL leaving SotG. According to what Alex said a few minutes ago, the opposite was true. Then tell me now in retrospective, which statement EG should have made, without putting JP in a bad light?
Like I said in the post above this one, Alex talked to JP before coming on ITG today, and probably could have done the same thing when iNcontroL announced that he was leaving SotG.
edit for spelling
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On June 29 2011 10:20 caelym wrote:
geoff chose the side with more money over the more popular, grassroots show.
You could just as easily say "Geoff chose the organization he had been a part of long before this hobby podcast he did, the organization that's supported him since the days of BroodWar and before JP was even a part of the community."
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On June 29 2011 10:21 seiferoth10 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:20 caelym wrote:
Seems to me like ITG shouldn't have been conceived at all, and geoff should use that free time to practice. the center of this drama seems to be who gets geoff, and geoff chose the side with more money over the more popular, grassroots show. It's about JP even considering a sponsor that is in direct conflict with one of his prominent cast members.
I wonder why other co-hosts like tyler didn't have this drama.
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On June 29 2011 10:22 DrunkeN. wrote:
Damn you MONEY!
The problem is, the money's why the professional Starcraft scene has a chance to exist in a few years.
I wonder why other co-hosts like tyler didn't have this drama.
TL's sponsors didn't have the same conflicts?
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On June 29 2011 10:19 Fishriot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:13 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:12 Talin wrote:On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? That doesn't change the fact that they were deceptive. It might be a lose-lose situation for them, and it might be the fact that they couldn't find a better way to inform the community about it (although I think they could have), but people who claimed EG was being deceptive were ultimately right. In the end, their representative came out and told the whole story ANYWAY, only after the damage had already been done. And you really blame them for not speaking on behalf of JP's side? What is left without touching on other's business? Like the above poster said, in the end the story came to light anyways. JP seems like a reasonable guy, and Alex said that he talked to him before going on ITG today anyways. I don't see why he couldn't have talked to JP earlier, and caused themselves a lot less of a headache.
It is starting to look like poor communication between JP and EG is the ultimate cause of all this. JP rejected the deal because he didn't want to lose Geoff, but by that point EG had already began the preparations for setting up ITG.
End result is SotG has no sponsor but loses Geoff anyway.
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On June 29 2011 10:22 Fishriot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:19 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:17 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:10 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:09 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? There is a difference between being unable to make a statement , and making a false statement. The statement they made was perfectly true without touching other people's (JP's) business. Going back and forth with you isn't getting anybody anywhere. What I got from EG (before today) was that they had nothing to do with iNcontroL leaving SotG. According to what Alex said a few minutes ago, the opposite was true. Then tell me now in retrospective, which statement EG should have made, without putting JP in a bad light? Like I said in the post above this one, Alex talked to JP before coming on ITG today, and probably could have don the same thing when iNcontroL announced that he was leaving SotG.
And what gives you the impression that EG didn't talk with JP in the past months? Obviously it was 100% EG's decision that JP chose not to shed light on that matter in the last SOTG episode, no? Give me a break.
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On June 29 2011 10:22 Z-R0E wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:20 caelym wrote:
geoff chose the side with more money over the more popular, grassroots show. You could just as easily say "Geoff chose the organization he had been a part of long before this hobby podcast he did, the organization that's supported him since the days of BroodWar and before JP was even a part of the community."
i totally agree, but my statement is the one that we as consumers of geoff's celebrity is more likely to see and get angry over.
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On June 29 2011 10:24 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:22 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:19 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:17 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:10 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:09 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? There is a difference between being unable to make a statement , and making a false statement. The statement they made was perfectly true without touching other people's (JP's) business. Going back and forth with you isn't getting anybody anywhere. What I got from EG (before today) was that they had nothing to do with iNcontroL leaving SotG. According to what Alex said a few minutes ago, the opposite was true. Then tell me now in retrospective, which statement EG should have made, without putting JP in a bad light? Like I said in the post above this one, Alex talked to JP before coming on ITG today, and probably could have don the same thing when iNcontroL announced that he was leaving SotG. And what gives you the impression that EG didn't talk with JP in the past months? Obviously it was 100% EG's decision that JP chose not to shed light on that matter in the last SOTG episode, no? Give me a break.
EG's decision that JP chose not to say anything? Give me a break.
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On June 29 2011 10:23 caelym wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:21 seiferoth10 wrote:On June 29 2011 10:20 caelym wrote:
Seems to me like ITG shouldn't have been conceived at all, and geoff should use that free time to practice. the center of this drama seems to be who gets geoff, and geoff chose the side with more money over the more popular, grassroots show. It's about JP even considering a sponsor that is in direct conflict with one of his prominent cast members. I wonder why other co-hosts like tyler didn't have this drama.
Because TeamLiquid has 2 corporate sponsors: TLAF (if you could call them corporate) and Razer. Razer is also very recent.
EG on the otherhand is supported primarily by corporate sponsors Intel, SteelSeries, Kingston Hyper X, Bigfoot Networks, Monster etc. Its a lot more likely there would be sponsor clashes.
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On June 29 2011 10:23 caelym wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:21 seiferoth10 wrote:On June 29 2011 10:20 caelym wrote:
Seems to me like ITG shouldn't have been conceived at all, and geoff should use that free time to practice. the center of this drama seems to be who gets geoff, and geoff chose the side with more money over the more popular, grassroots show. It's about JP even considering a sponsor that is in direct conflict with one of his prominent cast members. I wonder why other co-hosts like tyler didn't have this drama.
I'm actually curious about this as well. Does TL share sponsors with coL or maybe it's the lack of sponsors (they have like 2 right?) that don't cause any conflict.
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On June 29 2011 10:12 Kich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:06 ArturosII wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing the point of the anger here. On both sides. It's not the fact that he's left SotG that has people annoyed now it's the fact that he left and then lied about it and everyone around the decision lied about it. There was no reason to lie about it.
It just shows a complete lack of respect or consideration of the fans of the team. Note that is not the people who rage about this shit normally but the people who defended InControl when he left. I took what he said as true and believed him and thought all the people raging about conspiracy were being silly. It's really bad that those people turned out to be correct. But they weren't correct. Saying they lied is a silly thing to say, because InControl actually did need more time to focus on being a player.
It was a deception, and a borderline straight up lie because Incontrol didn't actually free up any time at all by quitting SoTG.
Before ITG started, Incontrol was doing one weekly podcast (SoTG). Now he's also doing one weekly podcast (ITG). I doubt there's much (if any) difference in commitment and time required. So no actual time was gained - Incontrol didn't get that extra time to commit to playing, he's just doing a different podcast instead.
In fact, the glaring issue with EG's argument here is this: If they wanted their players to commit to playing, why start ITG in the first place? Why bring two of their top players on it, thus forcing yet another commitment on them that cuts into their practice time? If it became apparent that Geoff couldn't do SOTG anymore because of sponsors conflict, he could have just left SOTG and committed to playing instead of doing podcasts at all.
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How does this all work out? I mean if they pull iNcontrol out from SToG why are they not doing the same for IdrA and Machine? My belief would be if this was a sponsorship issue they all would have to go. Aside from this it is good to have these two "competiting" shows because it is what drives the Broadcasting industry because it forces each show to change and not be stagnant. When they make these changes they increase the audience, which increases sponsorship interest and the beneift of the game.
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EPT
