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On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book.
No, it wasn't.
It seems pretty clear what happened.
State of the Game was looking to land a sponsorship deal, which would have paid Geoff and the other co-hosts; however, it would have conflicted with EG's sponsorships and Geoff would have needed to leave. Therefore they worked to get ITG setup, which would get Geoff paid.
The SOTG sponsorship deal fell through, leaving Geoff on ITG and SOTG, on NASL and doing sponsorship stuff leaving him little time. EG and Geoff agreed he was doing too much, and they decided he would leave SOTG as it was the obvious choice. This is all entirely reasonable.
They then omitted (or flat out denied, I can't remember) that EG was involved in the decision. That was stupid.
Look, they still would have gotten shit if they had been upfront about it and said "Geoff is overcommitted, and in the best interest of him and the work he does for his sponsors for him to reduce his commitments." They even did anyway, from people who assumed that was what happened. But I think they would have gotten less and all this would have died down a lot quicker.
Transparency: A good idea. The same lesson everyone should have learned from the whole EG Masters Cup / Team Liquid blowup. If an issue is important enough that people deserve some sort of explanation, 95% of the time being open about what happened is the best idea. A lot of the time if there's no openness, it's going to leak out in parts anyway. With a lot more shouting.
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On June 29 2011 10:09 Fishriot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? There is a difference between being unable to make a statement , and making a false statement.
The statement they made was perfectly true without touching other people's (JP's) business.
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On June 29 2011 10:05 jlake02 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 09:50 Zinroc wrote:On June 29 2011 09:48 ClysmiC wrote:On June 29 2011 09:46 Stijn wrote:
Basically, SotG was about to get a sponsor deal from a team that was not EG, creating an obvious conflict of interest for Incontrol. In mutual understanding EG decided to set up their own show (Inside the Game), with Incontrol on it. The SotG deal fell through but ITG was already mostly set up so they decided to go through with it? This is how I understand it. I think Razor wanted to sponsor SOTG while EG has Steelseries... Just guessing no proof, but its the only real sponsor conflict in the Esports scene. I appreciate Alex Garfield maintaining the confidentiality of those involved, but I'm willing to go on the record and reveal that compLexity arranged a strong sponsorship for SotG with SoundBlaster gaming. The deal would have put money in the pockets of all of the co-hosts. We did it because we love the show and felt it would be a great investment for our sponsor. JP liked the idea but did not accept the offer because it meant losing Geoff, which we understood.
Well this is getting interesting. I wonder if JP will give his side of things. Since we now have EGs and "new sponsors".
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On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP?
That doesn't change the fact that they were deceptive.
It might be a lose-lose situation for them, and it might be the fact that they couldn't find a better way to inform the community about it (although I think they could have), but people who claimed EG was being deceptive were ultimately right.
In the end, their representative came out and told the whole story ANYWAY, only after the damage had already been done.
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On June 29 2011 10:04 Engore wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 09:55 EtohEtoh wrote:
can somebody recap Alex's statement, i missed it Basically he said that JP and SOTG got a deal from a sponsor that is sponsoring another team that is NOT EG. It was a direct rival to a sponsor on EG's team so it was a big conflict for Geoff and IdrA being on the show. EG decided to talk to their sponsor and offer a similar deal to JP and SOTG so that they could stay on the show. EG's deal didn't work out. The deal that JP got from the other team didn't happen either. But ITG was already setup to run with EG's sponsors and the hosts they have. Basically Geoff would have had to cast NASL, ITG, and SOTG full time leaving little room to practice and do other things hes interested in. The first thing to cut out was something that wasn't sponsored.. SOTG. They said it was to free up time for Geoff and that was the truth. He was first leaving it because of sponsor reasons but when SOTG didn't get that sponsor he was too late to stop ITG. So SOTG was the first on the chopping block. MY opinion: Nothing wrong here. Competitive business wants their employee to be on a show with THEIR sponsor. One show he was on was about to get a rival sponsor to theirs. Conflict HARDCORE here. In any sport or in any normal business the side that EG took would be the right side to be on. It's just how it has to be in a world where sponsors are everything. No blame to anyone at EG. JP will still have an amazing show either way. They said IdrA and Geoff will still come on to guess host.. so i don't really see the problem. Like usual trolls and drama queens blow EVERYTHING out of proportion and shit gets real. When really theres no need for any of this.
Thanks for clearing everything up mate!
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On June 29 2011 10:06 ArturosII wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing the point of the anger here. On both sides. It's not the fact that he's left SotG that has people annoyed now it's the fact that he left and then lied about it and everyone around the decision lied about it. There was no reason to lie about it.
It just shows a complete lack of respect or consideration of the fans of the team. Note that is not the people who rage about this shit normally but the people who defended InControl when he left. I took what he said as true and believed him and thought all the people raging about conspiracy were being silly. It's really bad that those people turned out to be correct.
But they weren't correct. Saying they lied is a silly thing to say, because InControl actually did need more time to focus on being a player.
Furthermore, why do you even care -why- he left? Why is there even anger involved in that, how does it make you less of a fan because this happened? Are you a fan, or are you a stalker?
I'm a fan of SOTG-- InC left and I was upset, he gave his reasons, we all moved on.
There was no animosity between SOTG and Geoff, so why the fuck is there animosity between the community and them?
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So wait, JP actually had the option to take on EG's sponsors for SOTG rather than CoL's and keep geoff but stalled and so EG made their own show ITG instead?
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Are you people really so dense to not understand why fans are upset over what seems to be the end of SotG as we know it? SotG was the best starcraft show for fans. No offense to those involved with inside the game but that show is boring as shit.
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On June 29 2011 10:12 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? That doesn't change the fact that they were deceptive. It might be a lose-lose situation for them, and it might be the fact that they couldn't find a better way to inform the community about it (although I think they could have), but people who claimed EG was being deceptive were ultimately right. In the end, their representative came out and told the whole story ANYWAY, only after the damage had already been done.
And you really blame them for not speaking on behalf of JP's side? What is left without touching on other's business?
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On June 29 2011 10:12 Senx wrote:
So wait, JP actually had the option to take on EG's sponsors for SOTG rather than CoL's and keep geoff but stalled and so EG made their own show ITG instead?
This is huge speculation. We don't know why the deal fell through. I'm sure it's a lot more complex than "JP took too long to decide so we gutted his show."
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I want:
a) SOTG and JP back
b) Destiny, on SOTG
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On June 29 2011 10:10 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:09 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? There is a difference between being unable to make a statement , and making a false statement. The statement they made was perfectly true without touching other people's (JP's) business.
Going back and forth with you isn't getting anybody anywhere. What I got from EG (before today) was that they had nothing to do with iNcontroL leaving SotG. According to what Alex said a few minutes ago, the opposite was true.
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On June 29 2011 10:12 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? That doesn't change the fact that they were deceptive. It might be a lose-lose situation for them, and it might be the fact that they couldn't find a better way to inform the community about it (although I think they could have), but people who claimed EG was being deceptive were ultimately right. In the end, their representative came out and told the whole story ANYWAY, only after the damage had already been done.
Deceptive implies they were being malicious, you're suggesting EG, JP, Geoff, SOTG, and ITG, were all driven to hurt the community as much as possible?
I don't know if I'm being trolled or not.
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On June 29 2011 10:15 On_Slaught wrote:
This is huge speculation. We don't know why the deal fell through. I'm sure it's a lot more complex than "JP took too long to decide so we gutted his show."
I didn't interpret Senx's comment to mean "stalled" as in "JP took too long to decide," but instead as in "the deal didn't go anywhere" which were the words Alex used on the Inside the Game show.
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I loved iNcontroL being on SotG, but I'd be perfectly happy if SotG came back and got someone else to take his spot. It'd be great if ITG and SotG had completely different casts, you get to hear from a larger number of prominent voices in the community then. I don't really care what peoples' motivations are, if that's the outcome we get then it's all for the better.
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The person that could actually clear this up is JP. Only he has the information to both sides, and now that both of them came forward, he could provide the best point of view on what actually happened. If he chooses to do so, because it's not a bad decision to just stay away from something like this to be honest...
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On June 29 2011 10:13 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:12 Talin wrote:On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? That doesn't change the fact that they were deceptive. It might be a lose-lose situation for them, and it might be the fact that they couldn't find a better way to inform the community about it (although I think they could have), but people who claimed EG was being deceptive were ultimately right. In the end, their representative came out and told the whole story ANYWAY, only after the damage had already been done. And you really blame them for not speaking on behalf of JP's side? What is left without touching on other's business?
Like the above poster said, in the end the story came to light anyways. JP seems like a reasonable guy, and Alex said that he talked to him before going on ITG today anyways. I don't see why he couldn't have talked to JP earlier, and caused themselves a lot less of a headache.
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On June 29 2011 10:17 Fishriot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:10 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:09 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? There is a difference between being unable to make a statement , and making a false statement. The statement they made was perfectly true without touching other people's (JP's) business. Going back and forth with you isn't getting anybody anywhere. What I got from EG (before today) was that they had nothing to do with iNcontroL leaving SotG. According to what Alex said a few minutes ago, the opposite was true.
Then tell me now in retrospective, which statement EG should have made, without putting JP in a bad light?
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On June 29 2011 10:10 TheSwamp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 09:12 CrossTheRiver wrote:
I gotta say, I'm a little disappointed tyler. It's easy to demonize the folks at EG or criticize them for their various mistakes, but as far as I am aware (and I admit I am not omnipotent so I am not aware of everything) I don't see scoots on this forum bashing the very people that helped make him successful.
On several occasions tyler you have insinuated that various people are immature, childish, stupid, and yet as far as I can see they have done nothing to you. They disagreed with your line of thinking on something and since then you've been in attack mode. You really have zero respect for the community of board goers here. Maybe you have good reason for that, but if that were the case I would think you would want to stay away altogether rather than allow yourself to be antagonized; or at least avoid threads where you believe the "average" (Read: dumb) TL users might be congregating.
The reason I bring this up of course is because the tyler we all have seen on SOTG is a caring and thoughtful individual who considers his words, the tyler we are seeing on this forum is spiteful and haughty. I just don't understand that. It's fairly disheartening to come to this community (being fairly new) and see one of the reasons I even know about team liquid in the first place act this way.
If Tyler does have any hatred for the community, it is well justified. Just read some of the retarded comments in this thread. People think that these teams owe them something that they certainly do not. This entire situation goes to show the level of stupidity and childishness that is rampant in this "community." Every single announcement turns into a bunch of whiny shits crying about how they are getting their way. The worst part is how highly everyone holds themselves. Most of the people here are no better than the fps mongoloids.
I just don't understand, that even if we take your statement as 100% true, how does that make things any better? How does it make the community less volatile or more welcoming to new people?
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EPT
