On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote: Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book.
And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know.
I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG.
Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP?
On June 29 2011 09:55 EtohEtoh wrote: can somebody recap Alex's statement, i missed it
Basically he said that JP and SOTG got a deal from a sponsor that is sponsoring another team that is NOT EG. It was a direct rival to a sponsor on EG's team so it was a big conflict for Geoff and IdrA being on the show. EG decided to talk to their sponsor and offer a similar deal to JP and SOTG so that they could stay on the show. EG's deal didn't work out. The deal that JP got from the other team didn't happen either. But ITG was already setup to run with EG's sponsors and the hosts they have. Basically Geoff would have had to cast NASL, ITG, and SOTG full time leaving little room to practice and do other things hes interested in. The first thing to cut out was something that wasn't sponsored.. SOTG. They said it was to free up time for Geoff and that was the truth.
He was first leaving it because of sponsor reasons but when SOTG didn't get that sponsor he was too late to stop ITG. So SOTG was the first on the chopping block.
MY opinion: Nothing wrong here. Competitive business wants their employee to be on a show with THEIR sponsor. One show he was on was about to get a rival sponsor to theirs. Conflict HARDCORE here. In any sport or in any normal business the side that EG took would be the right side to be on. It's just how it has to be in a world where sponsors are everything.
No blame to anyone at EG. JP will still have an amazing show either way. They said IdrA and Geoff will still come on to guess host.. so i don't really see the problem. Like usual trolls and drama queens blow EVERYTHING out of proportion and shit gets real. When really theres no need for any of this.
On June 29 2011 09:55 Jayrod wrote: SOTG made you incontrol lol
your joking right?
He is right in one way. How popular of a coach/streamer would he have been without sotg? What if JP had picked up someone else instead?
Oh please dude. You think he would have been picked by JP if he wasn't ALREADY popular? Think about it from JP's standpoint when he was starting the show. Would he want to have some talented but unknown player on it? Of course not. The choice of incontrol was both purposeful and correct.
EG of course didnt want to talk in public about the deals and offers that SoTG could have, as long as SoTG didnt talk about them, they had to keep quiet, for mutual respect.
On June 29 2011 09:46 Stijn wrote: Basically, SotG was about to get a sponsor deal from a team that was not EG, creating an obvious conflict of interest for Incontrol. In mutual understanding EG decided to set up their own show (Inside the Game), with Incontrol on it. The SotG deal fell through but ITG was already mostly set up so they decided to go through with it?
This is how I understand it.
I think Razor wanted to sponsor SOTG while EG has Steelseries... Just guessing no proof, but its the only real sponsor conflict in the Esports scene.
I appreciate Alex Garfield maintaining the confidentiality of those involved, but I'm willing to go on the record and reveal that compLexity arranged a strong sponsorship for SotG with SoundBlaster gaming. The deal would have put money in the pockets of all of the co-hosts. We did it because we love the show and felt it would be a great investment for our sponsor. JP liked the idea but did not accept the offer because it meant losing Geoff, which we understood.
I think a lot of people are missing the point of the anger here. On both sides. It's not the fact that he's left SotG that has people annoyed now it's the fact that he left and then lied about it and everyone around the decision lied about it. There was no reason to lie about it. It just shows a complete lack of respect or consideration of the fans of the team. Note that is not the people who rage about this shit normally but the people who defended InControl when he left. I took what he said as true and believed him and thought all the people raging about conspiracy were being silly. It's really bad that those people turned out to be correct.
On June 29 2011 09:59 Kich wrote: InControl has now decided to stay on ITG and focus on playing. ITG pays him, and as much as it'd be awesome for him to be able to do everything--he's getting paid for ITG which assists him as a player. And that's fine. SOTG will miss him, we'll all miss him on SOTG, but shit happens and you people really need to move on.
I don't know if you're addressing me with "you people", but I personally think the way things went is perfectly reasonable. I was just trying to recap what I heard.
It was, I was just correcting some of your misinformation. SOTG did not receive an offer from a sponsorship that wasn't EG, it was one of EG's sponsors, and they didn't just go along with it because they were kind of already going along with ITG--they had to. There was no option of "Yes I want to do ITG" or "No we won't do ITG." They had to do ITG, the sponsors already sent the money, it was done, it was ready to go, there is no turning back from that point. It's just how shit rolls.
On June 29 2011 09:46 Stijn wrote: Basically, SotG was about to get a sponsor deal from a team that was not EG, creating an obvious conflict of interest for Incontrol. In mutual understanding EG decided to set up their own show (Inside the Game), with Incontrol on it. The SotG deal fell through but ITG was already mostly set up so they decided to go through with it?
This is how I understand it.
I think Razor wanted to sponsor SOTG while EG has Steelseries... Just guessing no proof, but its the only real sponsor conflict in the Esports scene.
I appreciate Alex Garfield maintaining the confidentiality of those involved, but I'm willing to go on the record and reveal that compLexity arranged a strong sponsorship for SotG with SoundBlaster gaming. The deal would have put money in the pockets of all of the co-hosts. We did it because we love the show and felt it would be a great investment for our sponsor. JP liked the idea but did not accept the offer because it meant losing Geoff, which we understood.
Wow.. finally everything is being revealed. Its about fucking time. Thank you
On June 29 2011 09:46 Stijn wrote: Basically, SotG was about to get a sponsor deal from a team that was not EG, creating an obvious conflict of interest for Incontrol. In mutual understanding EG decided to set up their own show (Inside the Game), with Incontrol on it. The SotG deal fell through but ITG was already mostly set up so they decided to go through with it?
This is how I understand it.
I think Razor wanted to sponsor SOTG while EG has Steelseries... Just guessing no proof, but its the only real sponsor conflict in the Esports scene.
I appreciate Alex Garfield maintaining the confidentiality of those involved, but I'm willing to go on the record and reveal that compLexity arranged a strong sponsorship for SotG with SoundBlaster gaming. The deal would have put money in the pockets of all of the co-hosts. We did it because we love the show and felt it would be a great investment for our sponsor. JP liked the idea but did not accept the offer because it meant losing Geoff, which we understood.
complexity killed state of the game, u heard it here first. /troll
On June 29 2011 10:06 ArturosII wrote: I think a lot of people are missing the point of the anger here. On both sides. It's not the fact that he's left SotG that has people annoyed now it's the fact that he left and then lied about it and everyone around the decision lied about it. There was no reason to lie about it. It just shows a complete lack of respect or consideration of the fans of the team. Note that is not the people who rage about this shit normally but the people who defended InControl when he left. I took what he said as true and believed him and thought all the people raging about conspiracy were being silly. It's really bad that those people turned out to be correct.
The problem was that neither Geoff nor EG had full information available nor right to speak on behalf of other people's business. That left the only "safe" statement they could possibly make.
On June 29 2011 09:46 Stijn wrote: Basically, SotG was about to get a sponsor deal from a team that was not EG, creating an obvious conflict of interest for Incontrol. In mutual understanding EG decided to set up their own show (Inside the Game), with Incontrol on it. The SotG deal fell through but ITG was already mostly set up so they decided to go through with it?
This is how I understand it.
I think Razor wanted to sponsor SOTG while EG has Steelseries... Just guessing no proof, but its the only real sponsor conflict in the Esports scene.
I appreciate Alex Garfield maintaining the confidentiality of those involved, but I'm willing to go on the record and reveal that compLexity arranged a strong sponsorship for SotG with SoundBlaster gaming. The deal would have put money in the pockets of all of the co-hosts. We did it because we love the show and felt it would be a great investment for our sponsor. JP liked the idea but did not accept the offer because it meant losing Geoff, which we understood.
Thanks for coming out with more facts. It is very unfortunate that the situation turned out to be what it is right now.
On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote: Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book.
And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know.
But he didn't take the offer lol. Alex said it himself, that whole ordeal that "started" this chain of events fell through.
And you are perfectly aware that all these events took place one after one on the timeline? Did you even listen to Alex' statements?
Read it that way: JP didn't get his shit together. Said to take the offer, EG set up a new show so Geoff wouldn't "loose money". Oh too bad, JP actually didn't take it. Is that the better "truth"? Hell no, and that is why EG chose not to engage in that whole matter.
That's exactly what I said, and that's exactly what Alex said, essentially. You are picking bones with people who aren't arguing with you.... The person you originally quoted already said you misinterpreted his post...
Edit: Thanks to jlake02 for the post regarding coL and SotG! Finally nice to see some info. And yes, none of this should be necessary at all, from either party. People just love SotG.
I really don't understand all the anger about this. What I'm hearing is:
* EG was willing to go to some lengths to try to hook their sponsor up with JP to help avoid a conflict.
* EG was willing to give Incontrol a pay bump and set up a whole new show to give him a forum when it looked like a conflict was inevitable.
* EG didn't push the issue of SOTG until the sum total of that, the new show, AND NASL added up to too much of a time impact.
Honestly, this looks like EG's willing to go way out of their way to keep their player happy within the constraints of what their sponsors need from them. Believe me, businesses that will do that kind of thing for their people, even key ones, are pretty rare.
Anyway, as far as whether what Scoots said was intentionally deceptive, I didn't hear it, so I can't comment on the precise wording, but I'd guess that it probably amounted to saying that the situation wasn't EG's doing, which, if put that way, is actually true.
Edit: I did hear Incontrol's description of why he was leaving SOTG, and it was obvious that increased allocation of time to the team's efforts was part of that. Why people view this as deceptive, I just don't know.
On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote: Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book.
And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know.
I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG.
Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP?
There is a difference between being unable to make a statement , and making a false statement.
On June 29 2011 09:46 Stijn wrote: Basically, SotG was about to get a sponsor deal from a team that was not EG, creating an obvious conflict of interest for Incontrol. In mutual understanding EG decided to set up their own show (Inside the Game), with Incontrol on it. The SotG deal fell through but ITG was already mostly set up so they decided to go through with it?
This is how I understand it.
I think Razor wanted to sponsor SOTG while EG has Steelseries... Just guessing no proof, but its the only real sponsor conflict in the Esports scene.
I appreciate Alex Garfield maintaining the confidentiality of those involved, but I'm willing to go on the record and reveal that compLexity arranged a strong sponsorship for SotG with SoundBlaster gaming. The deal would have put money in the pockets of all of the co-hosts. We did it because we love the show and felt it would be a great investment for our sponsor. JP liked the idea but did not accept the offer because it meant losing Geoff, which we understood.
so now that incontrol is gone anyway, whats the problem?
On June 29 2011 09:12 CrossTheRiver wrote: I gotta say, I'm a little disappointed tyler. It's easy to demonize the folks at EG or criticize them for their various mistakes, but as far as I am aware (and I admit I am not omnipotent so I am not aware of everything) I don't see scoots on this forum bashing the very people that helped make him successful.
On several occasions tyler you have insinuated that various people are immature, childish, stupid, and yet as far as I can see they have done nothing to you. They disagreed with your line of thinking on something and since then you've been in attack mode. You really have zero respect for the community of board goers here. Maybe you have good reason for that, but if that were the case I would think you would want to stay away altogether rather than allow yourself to be antagonized; or at least avoid threads where you believe the "average" (Read: dumb) TL users might be congregating.
The reason I bring this up of course is because the tyler we all have seen on SOTG is a caring and thoughtful individual who considers his words, the tyler we are seeing on this forum is spiteful and haughty. I just don't understand that. It's fairly disheartening to come to this community (being fairly new) and see one of the reasons I even know about team liquid in the first place act this way.
If Tyler does have any hatred for the community, it is well justified. Just read some of the retarded comments in this thread. People think that these teams owe them something that they certainly do not. This entire situation goes to show the level of stupidity and childishness that is rampant in this "community." Every single announcement turns into a bunch of whiny shits crying about how they are getting their way. The worst part is how highly everyone holds themselves. Most of the people here are no better than the fps mongoloids.
EPT
