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On June 29 2011 10:05 jlake02 wrote:
I appreciate Alex Garfield maintaining the confidentiality of those involved, but I'm willing to go on the record and reveal that compLexity arranged a strong sponsorship for SotG with SoundBlaster gaming. The deal would have put money in the pockets of all of the co-hosts. We did it because we love the show and felt it would be a great investment for our sponsor. JP liked the idea but did not accept the offer because it meant losing Geoff, which we understood.
Wow. Talk about a new twist to this whole story just when you thought it couldn't get anymore convoluted. The obvious response, which I know is extremely sensationalist, but nonetheless still very true, is damn, JP takes a bullet for Geoff, fast forward weeks/months, Geoff ends up leaving anyways because of a preemptive business decision by EG to prepare for a competing coL sponsoring SOTG, which as a business decision was obviously 100% correct for EG to do.
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On June 29 2011 10:20 caelym wrote:
Seems to me like ITG shouldn't have been conceived at all, and geoff should use that free time to practice. the center of this drama seems to be who gets geoff, and geoff chose the side with more money over the more popular, grassroots show.
I don't really get how you can come to that conclusion after having it explained to you, more than once, verbatim.
SOTG was offered money --
EG's sponsors can't have Geoff on the show if they get that money --
IN AN ATTEMPT TO KEEP GEOFF ON THE SHOW EG OFFERED SOTG MONEY --
SOTG did not take their offer --
ITG was born to keep Geoff's income exactly on par with how much he would have been making if SOTG got that sponsorship since EG appreciates their players and encourages them to pursue any additional avenue of income --
SOTG did not get that sponsorship --
ITG was already ready to go, and could not back out at that point --
Geoff was able to go back to SOTG --
Geoff would have had to do SOTG, ITG, NASL, compete, and live his fucking life as a human being for christ's sake, and find time for his girlfriend -- Geoff left SOTG and NASL in order to free up time. As a plus, he also gets more money, which we should be happy for him about. Go Geoff. *Wave flag.*
What. The. Fuck. People.
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On June 29 2011 10:26 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:12 Kich wrote:On June 29 2011 10:06 ArturosII wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing the point of the anger here. On both sides. It's not the fact that he's left SotG that has people annoyed now it's the fact that he left and then lied about it and everyone around the decision lied about it. There was no reason to lie about it.
It just shows a complete lack of respect or consideration of the fans of the team. Note that is not the people who rage about this shit normally but the people who defended InControl when he left. I took what he said as true and believed him and thought all the people raging about conspiracy were being silly. It's really bad that those people turned out to be correct. But they weren't correct. Saying they lied is a silly thing to say, because InControl actually did need more time to focus on being a player. It was a deception, and a borderline straight up lie because Incontrol didn't actually free up any time at all by quitting SoTG. Before ITG started, Incontrol was doing one weekly podcast (SoTG). Now he's also doing one weekly podcast (ITG). I doubt there's much (if any) difference in commitment and time required. So no actual time was gained - Incontrol didn't get that extra time to commit to playing, he's just doing a different podcast instead. In fact, the glaring issue with EG's argument here is this: If they wanted their players to commit to playing, why start ITG in the first place? Why bring two of their top players on it, thus forcing yet another commitment on them that cuts into their practice time? If it became apparent that Geoff couldn't do SOTG anymore because of sponsors conflict, he could have just left SOTG and committed to playing instead of doing podcasts at all.
he has also quit NASL, soooo.... ???
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On June 29 2011 10:23 Lysenko wrote:The problem is, the money's why the professional Starcraft scene has a chance to exist in a few years. TL's sponsors didn't have the same conflicts?
that's obvious... what i meant was why it's col's sponsors vs eg's sponsors instead of something like col's sponsors vs tl's sponsors. this is very interesting from a business perspective.
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
On June 29 2011 09:55 Jayrod wrote:
SOTG made you incontrol lol
indeed
sad to see incontrol sell out, but then what else is there to be expected from the guy who made gosuguide
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On June 29 2011 10:28 Maliris wrote:indeed sad to see incontrol sell out, but then what else is there to be expected from the guy who made gosuguide
How is being too busy being a progamer for the game selling out?
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On June 29 2011 10:17 Kich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:12 Talin wrote:On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Fishriot wrote:
Jesus christ this is getting me pretty angry. So it was pretty much about money? That's the message I'm getting here. Add to that the hypocrisy of this Alex guy constantly repeating that "they never wanted to screw over SotG" after that's exactly what they did is adding more wood to the fire that is this PR fuck up. I am a huge fan of iNcontroL, and this isn't going to change, but EG as a team and as a company can go fuck themselves in my book. And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? That doesn't change the fact that they were deceptive. It might be a lose-lose situation for them, and it might be the fact that they couldn't find a better way to inform the community about it (although I think they could have), but people who claimed EG was being deceptive were ultimately right. In the end, their representative came out and told the whole story ANYWAY, only after the damage had already been done. Deceptive implies they were being malicious, you're suggesting EG, JP, Geoff, SOTG, and ITG, were all driven to hurt the community as much as possible? I don't know if I'm being trolled or not.
Deceive: 1. To cause to believe what is not true; mislead.
Where does maliciousness factor into this definition?
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On June 29 2011 10:28 Maliris wrote:indeed sad to see incontrol sell out, but then what else is there to be expected from the guy who made gosuguide
Saying SOTG made Incontrol is like saying SOTG made Day9 and Tyler.
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I don't understand why State of the Game would accept a sponsorship. I thought SotG was separate from that.
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On June 29 2011 10:30 tsuxiit wrote:
I don't understand why State of the Game would accept a sponsorship. I thought SotG was separate from that.
Yeah money sucks dude.
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On June 29 2011 10:25 Fishriot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:24 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:22 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:19 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:17 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:10 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:09 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 10:03 rotegirte wrote:On June 29 2011 10:00 Fishriot wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 rotegirte wrote:
[quote]
And you go fuck yourself. JP has been working his ass off, for just recently being hired by MLG. He has been doing SOTG and all his other community work for literally nothing. It is perfectly understandable, the moment he gets a sponsorship offer we would likely take it. And if you still don't see how sponsors are needed and a good thing and sponsorship conflicts are natural occurrences, I really don't know. I fail to even see what you are trying to argue here. I didn't mention JP at all in my original post. Neither did I say sponsorships are a bad thing. The bottom line (in my opinion of course) is that EG as a company was extremely deceptive in this situation. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against iNcontroL, JP, or anyone other than the management of EG. Did you even listen to Alex' statements as to why EG was most of the time unable to make statements due to lack of information and the rest of the time unwilling to speak on behalf of JP? There is a difference between being unable to make a statement , and making a false statement. The statement they made was perfectly true without touching other people's (JP's) business. Going back and forth with you isn't getting anybody anywhere. What I got from EG (before today) was that they had nothing to do with iNcontroL leaving SotG. According to what Alex said a few minutes ago, the opposite was true. Then tell me now in retrospective, which statement EG should have made, without putting JP in a bad light? Like I said in the post above this one, Alex talked to JP before coming on ITG today, and probably could have don the same thing when iNcontroL announced that he was leaving SotG. And what gives you the impression that EG didn't talk with JP in the past months? Obviously it was 100% EG's decision that JP chose not to shed light on that matter in the last SOTG episode, no? Give me a break. EG's decision that JP chose not to say anything? Give me a break.
You do know that a role a [..],no? plays within a sentence? Let me recap your last posts:
Me: What could EG have done?
You: Speak with JP and come out with the story
Me: What makes you think they didn't speak with JP? It is highly likely they did, but the result in last SOTG episode nevertheless was that JP still didn't give out any information on his side despite Geoff being forced to give some explanation.
So your whole argument is based on "EG and JP could have figured out a mutual public statement". But you are ignoring the fact they very well could have spoken with each other and obviously it takes both sides to make such a statement work.
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
On June 29 2011 10:29 XKiller wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:28 Maliris wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 Jayrod wrote:
SOTG made you incontrol lol indeed sad to see incontrol sell out, but then what else is there to be expected from the guy who made gosuguide How is being too busy being a progamer for the game selling out?
yeah because he didn't replace sotg with a new podcast or anything
and of course SOTG made incontrol. Having a bunch of failed entrepreneurial ventures under his belt and no results until he allin'd everyone to top4 at MLG doesn't make him a success without SOTG. TSLRain anyone? GSL finalist and now he has to resort to joining a foreign team
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I think the biggest error committed was only the lack of understanding of just how large SOTG looms in the SC2 community. I don't mean that in a harsh way, just that I feel that a lot of their points make sense in most normal situations, and I sympathize with just how complicated of an issue this was for them, but SOTG is literally one of the absolute largest entities in SC2. How many podcasts out there can garner a consistent 5K+ viewership live when the information relayed on them is not time sensitive like a tournament where you might live in fear of spoilers if you wait to catch it on VODs, and it doesn't necessarily lose that intangible feeling that distinguishes a live tournament and non-live tournament by downloading it to listen later on your drive to work. SOTG reaches high marks in iTunes regularly and I honestly think it is the absolute strongest thing SC2 has going for it in its outreach to new and current fans. I can continue to list even more facts about just how large SOTG looms, like how Geoff himself spoke to the fact that the #1 thing fans approach him about at events is his role on SOTG, but I will leave it at that.
With that in mind I think the best solution would of been something more fourth coming from EG or iNcontrol. There are certain things that require exceptions to general held rules and I think SOTG and Geoff's role on the show as the most outspoken pillar on the show was one of them. I am not someone that feels entitled to absolute knowledge of the behind the scenes of every decision, and I completely understand that this situation was incredibly complex and I commend you for clearing the air as much as you have now. I don't think you handled it perfectly, I think that considering just how large SOTG is you could of made an exception and figured out a way to make things a little more clear to the community than you initially did, that wouldn't of required being as completely transparent as you were tonight. Even as you can see on the skype screenshot Geoff made it kinda seem as if he might never appear on SOTG again on his last episode as a pillar, a level of confusion that did not help the situation. That all being said I don't think it's fair either to hold someone to a perfect standard especially now knowing how complicated the issue was. I just hopes lessons were learned and people can move on.
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As I wrote when this whole mess started, it's sad that SOTG as it was can't survive, seems it started during the winter brake.
I can see why this was so funny to Tyler, since there is so much drama over EG-s player inC and no drama over him or even Day9 who are pillars as much as he is (don't see how is soundblaster conflicted whit EG-s sponsors, mb Steelseries headsets?).
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ITT, a bunch of people trying to stay mad by picking over every single inflection, rather than admitting that there was no controversy in the first place.
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On June 29 2011 10:26 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:12 Kich wrote:On June 29 2011 10:06 ArturosII wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing the point of the anger here. On both sides. It's not the fact that he's left SotG that has people annoyed now it's the fact that he left and then lied about it and everyone around the decision lied about it. There was no reason to lie about it.
It just shows a complete lack of respect or consideration of the fans of the team. Note that is not the people who rage about this shit normally but the people who defended InControl when he left. I took what he said as true and believed him and thought all the people raging about conspiracy were being silly. It's really bad that those people turned out to be correct. But they weren't correct. Saying they lied is a silly thing to say, because InControl actually did need more time to focus on being a player. It was a deception, and a borderline straight up lie because Incontrol didn't actually free up any time at all by quitting SoTG. Before ITG started, Incontrol was doing one weekly podcast (SoTG). Now he's also doing one weekly podcast (ITG). I doubt there's much (if any) difference in commitment and time required. So no actual time was gained - Incontrol didn't get that extra time to commit to playing, he's just doing a different podcast instead. In fact, the glaring issue with EG's argument here is this: If they wanted their players to commit to playing, why start ITG in the first place? Why bring two of their top players on it, thus forcing yet another commitment on them that cuts into their practice time? If it became apparent that Geoff couldn't do SOTG anymore because of sponsors conflict, he could have just left SOTG and committed to playing instead of doing podcasts at all.
But it did? Even though it was just 2-3 hrs on a Tuesday night it gave Incontrol more time. ITG came into inception because EG thought iNcontroL wasn't going to be able to be apart of SotG any longer due to potential sponsor conflicts. However, JP didn't take whatever sponsorship so iNcontroL was free to do both. However, whereas he was doing 1 show before he was now doing 2, which was fine for awhile. Then add in NASL and things started getting messy. Seeing as he seems to have contracts with the ITG (via EG) and NASL he couldn't stop doing those at the time. Now iNcontroL has also decided to leave NASL.
People need to stop trying create drama or fuel an invisible fire. This shit is stupid.
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On June 29 2011 10:29 Kich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:28 Maliris wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 Jayrod wrote:
SOTG made you incontrol lol indeed sad to see incontrol sell out, but then what else is there to be expected from the guy who made gosuguide Saying SOTG made Incontrol is like saying SOTG made Day9 and Tyler.
I wouldnt know who the fuck incontrol is if it werent for sotg, therefore, you're wrong.
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On June 29 2011 10:27 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:26 Talin wrote:On June 29 2011 10:12 Kich wrote:On June 29 2011 10:06 ArturosII wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing the point of the anger here. On both sides. It's not the fact that he's left SotG that has people annoyed now it's the fact that he left and then lied about it and everyone around the decision lied about it. There was no reason to lie about it.
It just shows a complete lack of respect or consideration of the fans of the team. Note that is not the people who rage about this shit normally but the people who defended InControl when he left. I took what he said as true and believed him and thought all the people raging about conspiracy were being silly. It's really bad that those people turned out to be correct. But they weren't correct. Saying they lied is a silly thing to say, because InControl actually did need more time to focus on being a player. It was a deception, and a borderline straight up lie because Incontrol didn't actually free up any time at all by quitting SoTG. Before ITG started, Incontrol was doing one weekly podcast (SoTG). Now he's also doing one weekly podcast (ITG). I doubt there's much (if any) difference in commitment and time required. So no actual time was gained - Incontrol didn't get that extra time to commit to playing, he's just doing a different podcast instead. In fact, the glaring issue with EG's argument here is this: If they wanted their players to commit to playing, why start ITG in the first place? Why bring two of their top players on it, thus forcing yet another commitment on them that cuts into their practice time? If it became apparent that Geoff couldn't do SOTG anymore because of sponsors conflict, he could have just left SOTG and committed to playing instead of doing podcasts at all. he has also quit NASL, soooo.... ???
So? He's still doing one weekly podcast. It's basic math. If that one weekly podcast was SOTG all along, this whole issue would never even exist.
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On June 29 2011 10:34 smallerk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:29 Kich wrote:On June 29 2011 10:28 Maliris wrote:On June 29 2011 09:55 Jayrod wrote:
SOTG made you incontrol lol indeed sad to see incontrol sell out, but then what else is there to be expected from the guy who made gosuguide Saying SOTG made Incontrol is like saying SOTG made Day9 and Tyler. I wouldnt know who the fuck incontrol is if it werent for sotg, therefore, you're wrong.
But that just really means that you're not that invested in the community. That's all.
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On June 29 2011 10:34 Primadog wrote:
ITT, a bunch of people trying to stay mad by picking over every single inflection, rather than realizing there than admitting there was no controversy in the first place.
I would say launching a competing show basically ensuring the destruction of a beloved show is pretty controversial, regardless of the business decisions behind it which are understandable.
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EPT
