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On June 02 2011 07:21 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:45 Mordiford wrote:On June 02 2011 06:40 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:36 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 06:34 thee telescopes wrote:On June 02 2011 06:32 turdburgler wrote:On June 02 2011 06:29 thee telescopes wrote:
Seems like the only reason Incontrol gets this irrational level of hate is because he actually engages in the community and these frustrated people think they're more likely to get a response out of him than they would another player. Kinda sad.
I have no idea how the best podcast I listen to also seems to have the worst vocal following of any of them.
tyler talks to the community alot and yet almost noone dumps on him jinro has one of the highest post counts on the site and yet people are civil to him. ive also seen people like drewbie, naniwa and huk all post a reasonable amount. none of these people get dumped on. just simply saying that engaging in the community gets you a lot of crap isnt fair. Tyler himself said he engages in the community less these days on the last SOTG, none of those guys are nearly as prominent as Incontrol is right now. This thread reaches super infantile levels every week it seems and I really doubt most of the people involved on either side are really that way in general; people just seem to like to use this thread to take out their frustrations on others. Perhaps you should take note of the things that Incontrol gets into arguments over and then see if any of the pros with higher post counts act the same way. InControl is actually opinionated and invested in where the community goes. It is in his nature to debate points and actually engage in discussion. Most of the other pros ignore everyone or they aren't active on the site. How exactly does he act unlike other people? Well, there's nothing wrong with being opinionated and invested in the community... When you say something cool or smart, you'll get tons of support and when you say something stupid, you'll get a little flaming. When you belittle another team, and then abrasively respond to someone speaking positively of that team, labeling them an "EG hater" despite their comments being moderate at worst, then you're obviously going to get called out, and when you attempt to further your point of my team is better, we would do better in korea even though we aren't going to korea with shoddy reasoning, you're putting yourself in a silly situation. Perhaps the situation was worsened, but it was sad to begin with. iNc is a lightning rod for attention, both because of the way he speaks and with all the things he does in the community, plus he does get himself in hairy situations, but he's not unique in having to defend his resume to people and that's just ridiculous. Him and Tyler have both gone through it and it's an absurd situation that only comes about on the internet. As if you must have a >45% win rate in order to talk about someone with a 55% win rate? That's ridiculous, but it happens all the time in this thread. They're both articulate top level pros with top level understanding, and while they're not at the IdrA level of stardom, they're still an extremely rare breed. If you run a NASCAR magazine and the 13th place racer wants to write an article about the ins and outs of stock car racing, you listen and don't question them because they made a bad move on lap 287. He's allowed to question another player's decisions or the readiness of a team without having his own resume pulled up. It's one of the pettiest of arguments and thankfully it's usually ignored in real life.
this a 13th place racer who criticizes the skill of racers who have actually won big races. and then goes off on the community saying no NASCAR writers should be allowed to write articles about racing if they don't place 13th place or better.
edit: to clear confusion, "this" isn't you, i meant incontrol. you don't see any professional athletes refuse to respond to questions from the media unless the person asking the question was a former pro of their sport. incontrol's argument that he shouldn't answer questions to the community because he plays starcraft 1000 hours a week is baseless. in professional sports, the fans, analysts and commentators obviously don't play the sport as much as the paid athletes do, but their opinions are certainly valid.
"kobe, what do you feel was your team's biggest flaw in not being able to close out the series?"
"show me your championship ring before you ask me another question"
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I'm pretty surprised to see so much feigned moral outrage about the word rape coming from people whose hobby is a video game which involves simulated killing. Since when did rape become worse than death?
Maybe we should all stop playing or watching violent video games in case it bothers people whose friends or family died in combat.
Anyways this was a boring episode and I did not watch the whole thing. I am glad to see Incontrol moving to Inside The Game where the conversation is more structured and focused on Starcraft rather than being a long boring cry about people's feelings.
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On June 02 2011 07:31 Dystisis wrote:
What makes people think it's a good idea to flame players who are 100 times better than themselves? You are just being pointless and annoying.
It has nothing to do with game skill and EVERYTHING to do with logic and reasoning.
Having 2K ladder points doesn't give you a perpetual SURVIVOR immunity stick.
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On June 02 2011 07:31 Dystisis wrote:
What makes people think it's a good idea to flame players who are 100 times better than themselves? You are just being pointless and annoying.
Was that one directed at incontrol?
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On June 02 2011 07:21 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:45 Mordiford wrote:On June 02 2011 06:40 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:36 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 06:34 thee telescopes wrote:On June 02 2011 06:32 turdburgler wrote:On June 02 2011 06:29 thee telescopes wrote:
Seems like the only reason Incontrol gets this irrational level of hate is because he actually engages in the community and these frustrated people think they're more likely to get a response out of him than they would another player. Kinda sad.
I have no idea how the best podcast I listen to also seems to have the worst vocal following of any of them.
tyler talks to the community alot and yet almost noone dumps on him jinro has one of the highest post counts on the site and yet people are civil to him. ive also seen people like drewbie, naniwa and huk all post a reasonable amount. none of these people get dumped on. just simply saying that engaging in the community gets you a lot of crap isnt fair. Tyler himself said he engages in the community less these days on the last SOTG, none of those guys are nearly as prominent as Incontrol is right now. This thread reaches super infantile levels every week it seems and I really doubt most of the people involved on either side are really that way in general; people just seem to like to use this thread to take out their frustrations on others. Perhaps you should take note of the things that Incontrol gets into arguments over and then see if any of the pros with higher post counts act the same way. InControl is actually opinionated and invested in where the community goes. It is in his nature to debate points and actually engage in discussion. Most of the other pros ignore everyone or they aren't active on the site. How exactly does he act unlike other people? Well, there's nothing wrong with being opinionated and invested in the community... When you say something cool or smart, you'll get tons of support and when you say something stupid, you'll get a little flaming. When you belittle another team, and then abrasively respond to someone speaking positively of that team, labeling them an "EG hater" despite their comments being moderate at worst, then you're obviously going to get called out, and when you attempt to further your point of my team is better, we would do better in korea even though we aren't going to korea with shoddy reasoning, you're putting yourself in a silly situation. Perhaps the situation was worsened, but it was sad to begin with. iNc is a lightning rod for attention, both because of the way he speaks and with all the things he does in the community, plus he does get himself in hairy situations, but he's not unique in having to defend his resume to people and that's just ridiculous. Him and Tyler have both gone through it and it's an absurd situation that only comes about on the internet. As if you must have a >45% win rate in order to talk about someone with a 55% win rate? That's ridiculous, but it happens all the time in this thread. They're both articulate top level pros with top level understanding, and while they're not at the IdrA level of stardom, they're still an extremely rare breed. If you run a NASCAR magazine and the 13th place racer wants to write an article about the ins and outs of stock car racing, you listen and don't question them because they made a bad move on lap 287. He's allowed to question another player's decisions or the readiness of a team without having his own resume pulled up. It's one of the pettiest of arguments and thankfully it's usually ignored in real life.
Oh, I entirely agree in that regard but I don't think that's what's going on here, it's a little bit of a different scenario as I've described in earlier posts.
I wasn't one of the people that thought Tyler was out of line in commenting on MC's play or something of that nature, it's perfectly fine for these players to talk about each other's play. What incontrol started was slightly different, and when someone responded disagreeing, he got abrasive and defensive, creating a bit of a messy situation.
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On June 02 2011 07:28 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 07:18 Chicane wrote:On June 02 2011 07:11 DystopiaX wrote:On June 02 2011 07:07 Chicane wrote:On June 02 2011 06:57 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:46 Chicane wrote:On June 02 2011 06:40 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:36 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 06:34 thee telescopes wrote:On June 02 2011 06:32 turdburgler wrote:
[quote]
tyler talks to the community alot and yet almost noone dumps on him
jinro has one of the highest post counts on the site and yet people are civil to him.
ive also seen people like drewbie, naniwa and huk all post a reasonable amount. none of these people get dumped on. just simply saying that engaging in the community gets you a lot of crap isnt fair. Tyler himself said he engages in the community less these days on the last SOTG, none of those guys are nearly as prominent as Incontrol is right now. This thread reaches super infantile levels every week it seems and I really doubt most of the people involved on either side are really that way in general; people just seem to like to use this thread to take out their frustrations on others. Perhaps you should take note of the things that Incontrol gets into arguments over and then see if any of the pros with higher post counts act the same way. InControl is actually opinionated and invested in where the community goes. It is in his nature to debate points and actually engage in discussion. Most of the other pros ignore everyone or they aren't active on the site. How exactly does he act unlike other people? Well here is just ONE example. Let me repeat that it is just a single example but he does this kind of stuff all the time. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214795¤tpage=12Let me also say that I read this thread when I had much more respect for him. When I read this thread I was surprised that anyone thought it was an acceptable way to behave here, especially with teammates. A thread that came up later with demuslim in it had no hint that it was ever a joke... in fact there was only more proof that it was a legitimate conversation when Incontrol responded "STFU plz" to someone who brought it up. On May 07 2011 01:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I'll give you a few hints:
1. I ask him to win every game for a year
2. "We regret nothing" ???
3. All caps should be a tip that something may be a miss here
4. The streotypes of "english" phrases in the sign off
5. Calling myself the FACE OF ESPORTS
6. I specify that he shouldn't beat EG protosses (HELLO?)
7. Find other posts I start with "Dear X" try and find a serious one... HINT: There are none.
The other 8 can be left to you to find (because I was being literal with the number 15)
^_____________^ He obviously doesn't clear it up enough in that thread. Everyone is just way to sensitive. I guess I am done trying to defend him. Gl Geoff. Alright that's great that you quoted the most polite of his posts in that thread, but how about addressing the other quotes directed at his teammate demuslim. Lets take a look...
ben I didn't think I'd have to say this but you are actually as stupid as the other people that read my post and took it serious at all LOL
jesus christ you are dumb lol
he is dumb though
Also I seemed to have angered the UK ^_^
'MERIKA
BEN WHY SO DUMB? LOLLLLLLLLLL
Do you HONESTLY think this is a polite way to act to a teammate, or that this behavior demands respect? Do you honestly think that he shouldn't have anyone disliking him after statements like this? Are you honestly defending these comments as appropriate? At the least answer that last question and simply say "yes" as you seem to defend him no matter what, and I guess we will be done here. I can't really say much more if you think calling a teammate dumb--who doesn't know you very well--over and over is good behavior. I don't know if you've realized this from reading his posts or listening to him, but Incontrol is frequently sarcastic and jokes around a lot. you're taking what appears to be insulting comments at face value but he's just playing around. Whether or not you think he should be joking is another question, but I don't see him actually being disrespectful here, he's obviously joking around with someone he knows well. Then why did Demuslim not joke back, and instead respond seriously... and why did incontrol actually speak directly to the fact that demuslim didn't understand his sarcasm if in fact he really did and they were both joking? (Let me reword it in case that was a bit unclear) If they were joking around they would (likely) just take jabs at each other and that would be it, but instead Demuslim had serious responses, and Incontrol actually pointed out how "dumb" demuslim was for not recognizing the sarcasm and for responding seriously. I don't think your assessment was fair to be completely honest. Maybe I am wrong here though, and incontrol was being sarcastic WITH Ben for the whole conversation, including when he called him dumb many times, but once again that was just one example of his behavior... and there have definitely been many which were clearly inappropriate without any excuses. Even if they weren't friends or on the same team, INcontrol would still take the jokes as far as he could because he is being sarcastic and thinks people would pick up on that via his posting clues to when he is trolling. Ex. Dear blahblahblah and weird capitalization. INcontrol is a public figure so he wouldn't actually say ridiculously mean things in public (or the
forum) to get everyone pissed off. His posts are mostly jokes and blatant sarcasm taken to the extreme.
Alright first off, he said he was trolling people on purpose in that thread, therefore he was trying to piss them off. Also...
On May 07 2011 01:51 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +
On May 07 2011 01:49 baeric wrote:
Next Demuslim post is maybe about calling Incontrol dumb that he doesnt understand his sarcasm
It is 100% possible that he too was being sarcastic. Those brits and their dry humor... I am willing to bet he was being serious though I do love all the hate I am getting! It fuels me... it drives me to make more sarcastic posts and flush out those with no humor!
And on top of that, the fact that you are saying he is a public figure so he wouldn't say mean things and all that just shows how uninformed you are. I guess I shouldn't even bother now because you are so set on only seeing one side of things.
Also...... calling Ben dumb in that case wasn't sarcasm. He has called MANY people stupid or dumb for misunderstanding things, and he said Ben is dumb for being just like them in that same situation. He was being sarcastic at first, yes, but after that he was being insulting. Regardless, if the sarcasm doesn't get across then you should stop or clarify it politely, not in an insulting manner.
I really don't know why I'm bothering though. I can tell from your posts that you haven't seen to many of his rude comments, and that you are spinning every blatantly insulting comment to just be "sarcasm" or "joking around"... but I guess I can just leave it at this and wait for you to eventually see it for yourself as I did... or maybe Geoff will act a bit less insulting to people and he will have changed.
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On June 02 2011 07:14 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 07:08 Razuik wrote:On June 02 2011 06:52 Mordiford wrote:On June 02 2011 06:46 iNcontroL wrote:
I have no idea what I've done to earn such rampant fucking haters. I can't get a word in without 10 responses. Half of them are mannered and level headed and the other are flaming sacks of shit.
I'm out of here.
So long to this thread. Thanks guys. Wow... seriously... I actually went through the last 10-15 pages to make sure I wasn't missing some outrageous and douchey comment, but I couldn't find anything I would consider "flaming sacks of shit", some were slightly silly, but no more-so than your own posts. People called you out specifically on the things you said and it would seem you're peace-ing out for lack of response at this point. You just said some dumb stuff, got called out on it and are now playing the victim as you head out... I wish this had ended better, it's highly unfortunate. Oh well, good luck at MLG, you're a good player. He HAS addressed his behavior many times. He's not playing victim.. he IS a victim because even after he apologizes for even the most trivial past wrongdoings, he still gets flamed for not being this perfect human that people want him to be. He will always say things he shouldn't say because he is not perfect.. just like everyone on Earth. I'm just really surprised that people are still turning a discussion about him leaving into a discussion about his behavior. Inc makes comments about Artosis and other players because he KNOWS them and likes to joke around, not because he hates them. What the fuck are you talking about? He said something he shouldn't have in this thread, got called out on it, abrasively responded, got called out on his reasoning there, responded with wobbly reasoning again, people responded pointing out the comparative results there and now he's saying he got flamed and is peace-ing out. He's not the victim here, he's playing the victim, if he made a mistake, admitted it here, and moved on, then this would be over. He doesn't do that, he doesn't realize it until much later(if at all). That DeMuslim thread that people just mentioned, people called him out on his comments being out-of-place and slightly stupid and he responded idiotically there as well, instead of just saying, "Yeah it was dumb of me to say, moving on"... He's not just some victim here...
What I don't understand is how iNcontroL can spend such a long time on SotG talking about being responsible for growing the e-sports community, and then call most of the people on live chat pieces of shit (or something similar) and then call people on this thread who disagree with him here "flaming sacks of shit" , that seems like the kind of behavior that alienates people already in the community from it, no? (It was also funny that he said "nigger" like 8 times too)
The reason iNcontroL gets hated on is because he comes off as very full of himself. Another example - on yesterday's SotG, the pretty condescending manner in which he spoke to Idra (who is actually really intelligent, and had been pretty mannered back to iNcontroL). He presumptuously refuses to engage the argument, and says stuff like, "So when you change races and still lose, what will your excuse be then?" which I think is just a douchey way to talk to another player (who is both your teammate and better than you). Nobody really answered Idra's argument that Zerg lacks safe non-coin-toss openings that other races have very well.
Further, I'm not even sure what the end-goal for "growing e-sports" really is, at least for iNcontroL--if it's just getting more people, then trust me, you'll be getting more "flaming sacks of shit" and more bm too (look at non-SC2 gamers).
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Chicane: On a tangent about something completely irrelevant.
nvs: spouting 100% "you suck incontrol" bs
Mordiford: Literally arguing with every point I make and suggesting I made this issue what it is.
Pekkz: 100% hating (standard, he has been doing this for awhile)
There are literally like 4-5 other people ALL with 5-10 posts (at least) in this thread with the sole purpose of down playing every one of my accomplishments and getting butt hurt that I had the audacity to say that EG was better than FXO and then I went on to arbitrarily compare myself to Sheth and said Moonan had no accomplishments SO NATURALLY people attack my accomplishments but then talk about moonan's 8th place finish in the same tourney as heroic because he did it from the open bracket.
PLEASE stop talking about me. I am done with this thread and the shit it has caused. I cannot stand fending off a hurricane of idiots any longer. It really just isn't worth it.
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Incontrol man :/ haters gonna hate, dont worry about em <3 I love you
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is awesome32277 Posts
Can we please keep the debate civil? Some of the points people are trying to make are kind of ridiculous. Dissecting every post someone makes, hanging onto one line he writes and extrapolating to make someone look bad is not "discussion".
On June 02 2011 07:21 ZergQQ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:46 iNcontroL wrote:
I have no idea what I've done to earn such rampant fucking haters. I can't get a word in without 10 responses. Half of them are mannered and level headed and the other are flaming sacks of shit.
I'm out of here.
So long to this thread. Thanks guys. Translation: "I can't defend my viewpoints so I'm going to bail. Cya guys!"
Specially stingy stuff like this. What's the point of writing this? Baiting him into an argument. Good riddance.
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On June 02 2011 07:39 iNcontroL wrote:
Chicane: On a tangent about something completely irrelevant.
nvs: spouting 100% "you suck incontrol" bs
Mordiford: Literally arguing with every point I make and suggesting I made this issue what it is.
Pekkz: 100% hating (standard, he has been doing this for awhile)
There are literally like 4-5 other people ALL with 5-10 posts (at least) in this thread with the sole purpose of down playing every one of my accomplishments and getting butt hurt that I had the audacity to say that EG was better than FXO and then I went on to arbitrarily compare myself to Sheth and said Moonan had no accomplishments SO NATURALLY people attack my accomplishments but then talk about moonan's 8th place finish in the same tourney as heroic because he did it from the open bracket.
PLEASE stop talking about me. I am done with this thread and the shit it has caused. I cannot stand fending off a hurricane of idiots any longer. It really just isn't worth it.
Maybe you should form an "internet word victims" group for you to discuss in a safe place how traumatized you have been by these insensitive people's speech.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 02 2011 07:39 iNcontroL wrote:
PLEASE stop talking about me. I am done with this thread and the shit it has caused. I cannot stand fending off a hurricane of idiots any longer. It really just isn't worth it.
At this point I'm almost waiting with baited breath for the community to birth the inevitable "Leave Geoff Alone" Chris Crocker parody video. Maybe it'd diffuse the tension.
Keep it classy guys. I still have faith in a decent discussion.
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great last podcast.
<3 inc all the best in MLG and future endeavors.
leah is a babe.
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On June 02 2011 07:39 iNcontroL wrote:
Chicane: On a tangent about something completely irrelevant.
Well first off I responded to what SiguR had mentioned which was that Moonan had approximately equal accomplishments to you (Is that not true? Just say it's not true if you think it's not the case, though SiguR has pointed out that TLO is the one exception, and he defeated many other noteworth opponents) so that it is unfair to put yourself above him. What is wrong with that?
After that I responded to someone else... so yes, the conversation I had with someone else is completely irrelevant to you.
nvs: spouting 100% "you suck incontrol" bs
Mordiford: Literally arguing with every point I make and suggesting I made this issue what it is.
Pekkz: 100% hating (standard, he has been doing this for awhile)
I won't speak for them.
There are literally like 4-5 other people ALL with 5-10 posts (at least) in this thread with the sole purpose of down playing every one of my accomplishments and getting butt hurt that I had the audacity to say that EG was better than FXO and then I went on to arbitrarily compare myself to Sheth and said Moonan had no accomplishments SO NATURALLY people attack my accomplishments but then talk about moonan's 8th place finish in the same tourney as heroic because he did it from the open bracket.
PLEASE stop talking about me. I am done with this thread and the shit it has caused. I cannot stand fending off a hurricane of idiots any longer. It really just isn't worth it.
Well first off I did not say 4th is not impressive... in fact I said I was very happy when you got that far, but I did say that Moonan's path was arguably more difficult. So with that in mind, I don't think it is fair to place yourself above him as a player based off your accomplishment, when he showed more impressive wins (again... arguably) and on top of that he has other noteworthy accomplishments. How is that not fair?
Also throwing on "PLEASE stop talking about me." after you incorrectly interpret what people have been saying this whole time, and then try to end on THAT note is not going to get people to stop.
"I am done with this thread and the shit it has caused." It really hasn't caused anything other than a discussion which honestly isn't as bad as you seem to be reacting to it. Nothing major will come of it. My honest advice is to simply not read if it is bothering you though.
"I cannot stand fending off a hurricane of idiots any longer. It really just isn't worth it." Alright well once again just leave and don't read the thread for your own sake, but at the same time if you can't resist sticking around, you should actually try to understand what people are arguing and respond calmly and intelligently before you call everyone else idiots.
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On June 02 2011 07:39 iNcontroL wrote:
Chicane: On a tangent about something completely irrelevant.
nvs: spouting 100% "you suck incontrol" bs
Mordiford: Literally arguing with every point I make and suggesting I made this issue what it is.
Pekkz: 100% hating (standard, he has been doing this for awhile)
There are literally like 4-5 other people ALL with 5-10 posts (at least) in this thread with the sole purpose of down playing every one of my accomplishments and getting butt hurt that I had the audacity to say that EG was better than FXO and then I went on to arbitrarily compare myself to Sheth and said Moonan had no accomplishments SO NATURALLY people attack my accomplishments but then talk about moonan's 8th place finish in the same tourney as heroic because he did it from the open bracket.
PLEASE stop talking about me. I am done with this thread and the shit it has caused. I cannot stand fending off a hurricane of idiots any longer. It really just isn't worth it.
You make it really difficult to like you sometimes.
I've responded to every point you've made because I think they're unfair, belittling or incorrect. Also, the main posts haven't been belittling you while claiming Moonan is some fucking hero, they've just drawn parallels and comparisons suggesting that there isn't some huge disparity here.
And yes, I do think you made this an issue but if you're done, who gives a fuck, right?
You claimed EG would perform better than FXO(which you had no real reason to do since your team has shown no intention of competing in the GSTL, so why take the jam out of their doughnut?) and is a stronger team and that's fine, you're entitled to their opinion. But then when someone came in with a different opinion, and they were actually very tame and not hostile at all, you label them an EG-hater and get started on how there's some disparity in the achievements of the two teams(which I don't think is the case despite considering EG the stronger team). Then you go and play the victim when people call you out on your statements.
Whatever, you're done responding? I see no reason to continue this and turn the thread into an outlet for bashing you or your accomplishments.
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On June 02 2011 02:16 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 02:11 -_- wrote:On June 02 2011 01:41 Sqq wrote:On June 02 2011 01:39 -_- wrote:On June 02 2011 01:29 iNcontroL wrote:On June 02 2011 01:24 -_- wrote:On June 02 2011 01:16 iNcontroL wrote:
I'm sorry if you think 4th place isn't an accomplishment. I'm sorry if you think it is telling that I am happy with that finish.
I will comfort myself by knowing you aren't anywhere near a progamer and literally have 0 grasp of what it takes to place that high in anything competitive. So I know without a shadow of doubt that you are 100% a completely irrelevant perspective on the matter. Calm down. I understand where you're coming from, but you don't know about my competitive background. Just because I'm not a progamer doesn't mean I haven't been succesful in my life. And just because you angry, doesn't mean you can proclaim that my perspective is irrelevant. Let's use a sports analogy. If Lebron James loses in the finals, do you think he'll be happy with his 2nd place finish? Do you think Derrick Rose is happy with his 3rd/4th place finish? And if they were, it would certainly speak to how good they think they are (not the best), and what their goals were (not to be a champion). Am I claiming to be a fucking lebron James of SC2? Where the fuck do you go presuming everyone has to have the results of the absolute best player in the game and possibly ever to be posting "good results" ? btw I stand by the fact you know nothing about SC2 accomplishments and so far you are solidifying that stance. You are a generic spectator. You only consider a 1st place finish a good finish. Therefor you are irrelevant on the discussion. Fair enough. We have different opinions on what is an accomplishment, and as an actual competitor you have a perspective that is different than mine. I will say, however, that just because that perspective is different ,and arguably more knowledgeable, doesn't mean its objective. Sometimes players will be too hard on themselves. Going back to Starcraft, Jinro might feel like a loser because he hasn't won the GSL. Alternatively, some players might try to rationalize their failures. For example, Lastshadow had a high MLG finish once, and in trying to vindicate the time he's spent playing Starcraft 2, he might consider himself an accomplished player. Are you serious with the statement that 4th in a tournament with top players \ teams isn't a fantastic achievement ? That's exactly what I think. I also think it's hypocritical that Incontrol says I don't have a valid perspective on what is an accomplishment. In the very show this thread is based on, he's repeatedly stated that it's unfair to attack himself or Tyler for being worse than the koreans they criticize, but then he does precisely the same thing to me. Teamliquid wouldn't be very popular if everytime a poster tried to commentate on player that was better than them, they were shot down. You posted HALF of what I said and postulated like it was my opinion or what I said, shame on you. No, I said that tyler and I don't have to be better than MC to criticize him because WE ARE STILL PROGAMERS. WE SPEND 10000000000000x MORE TIME WITH THIS GAME THAN YOU + 10 of you closest friends. That is NOT the same as you, some completely random hater who ALWAYS posts about how bad I am stating once again that you think you are some kind of an authority on the subject. Do NOT speak for me in the future. You have an inability to consider my thoughts or opinions in anything but some hugely tainted light and it is getting old.
You sure none of spend more time on this game then tyler? 
Everyone's "allowed" to criticize progamers, should be irrelevant who they are. Only thing relevant should be the logic of their argument.
And that said Inc - Sheth does has a 60% win rate in international SC2 games, you have a 40%. Let me be clear - I DO think EG is better than FXO, but you're arguing it in you're silly angry way, which you shouldn't. No need to take any of it personally, or dismiss what people say as "hate". I don't hate you inc. I really like you. I watch your stream all the time. But you're embarrassing yourself in this thread, and I think if you cooled your head for a minute and took a look back, you'd probably laugh at yourself.
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iNcontroL is legitimately making a fool of himself. It's kinda funny tbh ^^
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People (including the SOTG people) keep saying FXO shouldn't go because if they lose everything they'll make the foreign scene look bad so a better team should go that wouldn't embarrass themselves.
But it seems Koreans are going to be at every major LAN this year (MLG, dreamhack) I think that regardless of if FXO goes or not, the foreign scene will look bad if the Korean's win everything and look good if they don't. If a non-korean wins MLG and FXO loses every team game I think it will be obvious witch result reflects the strength of the foreign scene. I think it is up to all the seeded MLG players and dreamhack invites now to prove they can compete with the best and not make everybody look bad, not just team FXO.
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It's really quite interesting in the most pathetic way possible how seriously you people take everything.
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EPT
