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On June 02 2011 07:08 Razuik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:52 Mordiford wrote:On June 02 2011 06:46 iNcontroL wrote:
I have no idea what I've done to earn such rampant fucking haters. I can't get a word in without 10 responses. Half of them are mannered and level headed and the other are flaming sacks of shit.
I'm out of here.
So long to this thread. Thanks guys. Wow... seriously... I actually went through the last 10-15 pages to make sure I wasn't missing some outrageous and douchey comment, but I couldn't find anything I would consider "flaming sacks of shit", some were slightly silly, but no more-so than your own posts. People called you out specifically on the things you said and it would seem you're peace-ing out for lack of response at this point. You just said some dumb stuff, got called out on it and are now playing the victim as you head out... I wish this had ended better, it's highly unfortunate. Oh well, good luck at MLG, you're a good player. He HAS addressed his behavior many times. He's not playing victim.. he IS a victim because even after he apologizes for even the most trivial past wrongdoings, he still gets flamed for not being this perfect human that people want him to be. He will always say things he shouldn't say because he is not perfect.. just like everyone on Earth. I'm just really surprised that people are still turning a discussion about him leaving into a discussion about his behavior. Inc makes comments about Artosis and other players because he KNOWS them and likes to joke around, not because he hates them.
Please read the about the current issues before you post about them...
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On June 02 2011 07:08 Razuik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:52 Mordiford wrote:On June 02 2011 06:46 iNcontroL wrote:
I have no idea what I've done to earn such rampant fucking haters. I can't get a word in without 10 responses. Half of them are mannered and level headed and the other are flaming sacks of shit.
I'm out of here.
So long to this thread. Thanks guys. Wow... seriously... I actually went through the last 10-15 pages to make sure I wasn't missing some outrageous and douchey comment, but I couldn't find anything I would consider "flaming sacks of shit", some were slightly silly, but no more-so than your own posts. People called you out specifically on the things you said and it would seem you're peace-ing out for lack of response at this point. You just said some dumb stuff, got called out on it and are now playing the victim as you head out... I wish this had ended better, it's highly unfortunate. Oh well, good luck at MLG, you're a good player. He HAS addressed his behavior many times. He's not playing victim.. he IS a victim because even after he apologizes for even the most trivial past wrongdoings, he still gets flamed for not being this perfect human that people want him to be. He will always say things he shouldn't say because he is not perfect.. just like everyone on Earth. I'm just really surprised that people are still turning a discussion about him leaving into a discussion about his behavior. Inc makes comments about Artosis and other players because he KNOWS them and likes to joke around, not because he hates them.
I've also seen a lot of inflammatory comments, name calling, and flaming of incontrol. granted there have been some civil/polite critical posts as well but that's not what he's referring to.
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On June 02 2011 06:55 felizuno wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:46 iNcontroL wrote:
I have no idea what I've done to earn such rampant fucking haters. I can't get a word in without 10 responses. Half of them are mannered and level headed and the other are flaming sacks of shit.
I'm out of here.
So long to this thread. Thanks guys. Technically we shouldn't be talking about Geoff in this thread anyways. Tuesday was his last show, which makes all discussion about him "Off Topic" right? :-P Bye Geoff, you are better at SC than anybody posting in this thread and you're fucking a pageant winning model... so put two middle fingers up and ignore all the nobodies who power trip on the internets
I really don't think the people are power tripping, I am fairly sure they just enjoy being douchebags to incontrol because they want someone to be an asshole to.
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On June 02 2011 07:01 Nightfly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:49 AzurewinD wrote:On June 02 2011 05:56 SiguR wrote:On June 02 2011 04:53 iNcontroL wrote:On June 02 2011 04:02 Azide wrote:On June 02 2011 03:56 SiguR wrote:On June 02 2011 01:11 iNcontroL wrote:
FXO has literally 0 team accomplishments except losing to EG in ESEA and taking I think 4th.
Where the HELL do people get it in their mind that they are a better team? It absolutely cannot be through results. Arbitrary considerations with players? Qxc hasn't been his former self since MLG of last year when he still placed lower than several EG players. Moonan? No accomplishments. Slog? Filthy? Tgun or w/e... all lower level than Machine, Strifecro and Lz. Sheth is great. But still has fewer / less accomplishments than I do in big tourneys (MLG). Then we compare super-stars.. IdrA vs Moonglade. Need I say more? And all this without mentioning Axslav who won MVP for crota invitational going undefeated against players like Jinro and the other top players from top teams.
Emphasis on the bolded part... I don't care for the argument that's taking place here on which team is better, but blatant falsehoods tickle my fancy. Moonan has no accomplishments but you do? At MLG Dallas, you were seeded into pool play. You took fourth place by: In group play: beating TLO, Mihai, and slush Losing to painuser In the championship bracket: You beat TLO in an extended series You lost to Select 0-2 You lost to Kiwikaki 0-2 You won two best of threes and one best of five. You lost three best of threes. That got you fourth place.At MLG Dallas, Moonan took 8th. He started in the open bracket. Got knocked into the losers bracket by huk and did not make group play, but proceeded to the championship bracket by beating Naama. In the championship bracket he beat spades, painuser, mihai, machine, slush, and eventually lost to socke.
Moonan won 11 best of threes, and lost two best of threes. That got him 8th place. If you'll notice, three of the players he beat were the ones that were in your pool (essentially the same players you beat to secure your fourth place spot, minus TLO).In summary: Incontrol : Wins: 2 bo3's, 1 bo5. Losses: 3 bo3's 4th place Moonan: Wins: 11 bo3's Losses: 2 bo3's 8th place The catch is that Moonan played almost literally the same players that you did, plus naama, spades, machine, and a number of lesser known players. Saying Moonan has zero accomplishments and you have more accomplishments than him or sheth seems kind of moronic. You benefited from a very skewed seeding system. That is all fine and good in itself. I'm happy for your success. But don't go waving your dick around saying you have more accomplishments than other people who arguably performed just as well if not better than you. I want to be clear that i'm not saying you didn't do well. I'm saying that arguably Moonan did better and you're sitting on your 4th place "accomplishment" and saying Moonan has zero accomplishments. It seems silly. well said I got seeded into the top 16 because I spent 3 MLG's beating people of / higher level than what you listed for Moonan. You're right, you attended all 3 2010 MLG's to earn 18th seed and got bumped into the top 16 when others couldn't attend. Moonan and many others did not attend all three and never had the chance to earn the same amount of points as you. Not sure who you beat that's of a higher level than naama, slush, or machine. I'm also not sure how that's relevant anyway. Saying he did well in open play and then placed lower in the same bracket I placed higher in as some kind of "he did better" is stupid. I explained in good detail why his results at MLG are no worse than yours, despite him ranking lower. Perhaps you should read my post again. I'm saying it's ludicrous for you to say Moonan has no accomplishments when it is clear that your only 'accomplishment' is no greater of a performance than his. I have NO IDEA why so many people hate on slush / TLO it really is a shame.. they are fucking good. Mihai came from the same open stage btw as Moonan and he too lost 0-2 to me. I am not belittling slush or TLO or saying you beat scrubs. I am probably one of slush's biggest fans actually. I don't know what beating MIhai has to do with anything... I listed both of you as having beaten him in my original post. It sucks cause I have to defend my 4th place finish which comes off as "wow he thinks it was so amazing" but I am only doing that in response to the idiots that go "his 4th place finish was vs scrubs lololol" If you think I'm criticizing you for over inflating your success, you don't understand my original post. I'm criticizing you for deflating the success of moonan. Let me try to explain this again: You said the guy has zero accomplishments yet it seems absolutely undeniable that at the very worst, he performed at the same level as you at dallas. He beat the players you beat, he beat the players you lost to (painuser), and he beat players you didn't get to play. He lost less matches than you as well. Are you really going to sit and say that you have an accomplishment and he doesn't because you benefited from an arguably flawed seeding system? You got 18th seed by having consistent mediocre performances at 3 MLG's. You then won three matches (one being extended) and lost three matches, and it got you 4th.
Here's the part it seems you're missing. My point is not that you didn't do well. My point is that, given context, it is mind- blowingly narrow and downright stupid to say moonan's performance does not count as an accomplishment but yours does. Either you both have an accomplishment, or neither of you do. Sigur I understand you are a moonan fan boy and all but I'm sorry... I am not a moonan fan boy. I barely know anything about him. I looked up the results from MLG dallas on liquipedia. I am as impartial as impartial can get. I made my post because what you said was stupid, not because i'm a fan boy. It worries me that you would even try to make that point. Well reasoned and powerfully argued. Uh, not really. I don't see anything that should convince anybody that his take on MLG is any better than what MLG is doing. Ignoring past tournaments because Moonan didn't compete in them isn't fair. That's like saying Nestea doesn't really have any accomplishments compared to inconrol because incontrol didn't have the chance to compete in GSL. I'd rather look at the official results than look at some random guy's take on what is and what isn't an accomplishment.
Wrong. Lets say for the sake of argument that incontrol won MLG D.C. Now, if we were to say Moonan is just as good, because we aren't counting the MLG incontrol won because Moonan couldn't make it... THEN it would be like your analogy of comparing someone with Nestea by taking out the GSL.
The fact is, incontrol barely slipped by with not so impressive results in previous MLGs (I am honestly not bashing the results, but I am saying it is nothing to brag about when comparing yourself to other pros) and has benefited from seeding is a whole different situation.
To put it simply... analogies can be great for making points, but you have to make sure they are valid. I am positive that if incontrol had won one of the first 3 MLGs that people would be much more understanding of incontrol placing himself above Moonan based on results. Is that really not reasonable?
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On June 02 2011 07:08 Razuik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:52 Mordiford wrote:On June 02 2011 06:46 iNcontroL wrote:
I have no idea what I've done to earn such rampant fucking haters. I can't get a word in without 10 responses. Half of them are mannered and level headed and the other are flaming sacks of shit.
I'm out of here.
So long to this thread. Thanks guys. Wow... seriously... I actually went through the last 10-15 pages to make sure I wasn't missing some outrageous and douchey comment, but I couldn't find anything I would consider "flaming sacks of shit", some were slightly silly, but no more-so than your own posts. People called you out specifically on the things you said and it would seem you're peace-ing out for lack of response at this point. You just said some dumb stuff, got called out on it and are now playing the victim as you head out... I wish this had ended better, it's highly unfortunate. Oh well, good luck at MLG, you're a good player. He HAS addressed his behavior many times. He's not playing victim.. he IS a victim because even after he apologizes for even the most trivial past wrongdoings, he still gets flamed for not being this perfect human that people want him to be. He will always say things he shouldn't say because he is not perfect.. just like everyone on Earth. I'm just really surprised that people are still turning a discussion about him leaving into a discussion about his behavior. Inc makes comments about Artosis and other players because he KNOWS them and likes to joke around, not because he hates them.
What the fuck are you talking about?
He said something he shouldn't have in this thread, got called out on it, abrasively responded, got called out on his reasoning there, responded with wobbly reasoning again, people responded pointing out the comparative results there and now he's saying he got flamed and is peace-ing out.
He's not the victim here, he's playing the victim, if he made a mistake, admitted it here, and moved on, then this would be over. He doesn't do that, he doesn't realize it until much later(if at all). That DeMuslim thread that people just mentioned, people called him out on his comments being out-of-place and slightly stupid and he responded idiotically there as well, instead of just saying, "Yeah it was dumb of me to say, moving on"... He's not just some victim here...
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You tune into a stream for the content it provides, regardless of it being considered a public place or not a streamer shouldn't be restricted in his or hers ability to express themselves because some people might find it offensive. There is a choice involved, if some random asshole shouts to you "fuck you, you piece of shit nigger, I hope you get raped" or etcetera you have no control over that happening to you, if there is information about the content and what people might object to available you choose to subject yourself to that experience, and if people knowledgeably go out of their way to be offended they have no right to complain.
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On June 02 2011 07:13 Kamikiri wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:55 felizuno wrote:On June 02 2011 06:46 iNcontroL wrote:
I have no idea what I've done to earn such rampant fucking haters. I can't get a word in without 10 responses. Half of them are mannered and level headed and the other are flaming sacks of shit.
I'm out of here.
So long to this thread. Thanks guys. Technically we shouldn't be talking about Geoff in this thread anyways. Tuesday was his last show, which makes all discussion about him "Off Topic" right? :-P Bye Geoff, you are better at SC than anybody posting in this thread and you're fucking a pageant winning model... so put two middle fingers up and ignore all the nobodies who power trip on the internets I really don't think the people are power tripping, I am fairly sure they just enjoy being douchebags to incontrol because they want someone to be an asshole to.
In my opinion people are just being douchebags to incontrol because he is giving a reaction. With the way everything kicks off now the second somebody who is a pro says something that could be considered offensive people just jump on what they say at every opportunity and naturally everybody just jumps on the bandwagon because this is the TL forums and suddenly it is incontrol vs world.
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On June 02 2011 07:02 Severian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 07:00 QTIP. wrote:
I do think that FXO is somewhat of a random choice regarding a foreign team for the most elite team competition in the world...
It's like there being a Galaxy-wide basketball tournament with aliens and humans, and us sending the Atlanta Hawks to show what Earthlings are made of. :S Nobody chose FXO. FXO decided to go. No other team stood up, and FXO's participation doesn't preclude other foreign teams' participation.
Sorry I should have worded it better.
I mean it more in the consequential sense, as in "Because FXO will be going..." it can be looked at from this point of view.
I do like how they are taking the initiative and going out there, its both commendable and fun to watch. I'm merely talking about the negative backlash that may result due to their performance.
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On June 02 2011 07:11 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 07:07 Chicane wrote:On June 02 2011 06:57 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:46 Chicane wrote:On June 02 2011 06:40 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:36 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 06:34 thee telescopes wrote:On June 02 2011 06:32 turdburgler wrote:On June 02 2011 06:29 thee telescopes wrote:
Seems like the only reason Incontrol gets this irrational level of hate is because he actually engages in the community and these frustrated people think they're more likely to get a response out of him than they would another player. Kinda sad.
I have no idea how the best podcast I listen to also seems to have the worst vocal following of any of them.
tyler talks to the community alot and yet almost noone dumps on him jinro has one of the highest post counts on the site and yet people are civil to him. ive also seen people like drewbie, naniwa and huk all post a reasonable amount. none of these people get dumped on. just simply saying that engaging in the community gets you a lot of crap isnt fair. Tyler himself said he engages in the community less these days on the last SOTG, none of those guys are nearly as prominent as Incontrol is right now. This thread reaches super infantile levels every week it seems and I really doubt most of the people involved on either side are really that way in general; people just seem to like to use this thread to take out their frustrations on others. Perhaps you should take note of the things that Incontrol gets into arguments over and then see if any of the pros with higher post counts act the same way. InControl is actually opinionated and invested in where the community goes. It is in his nature to debate points and actually engage in discussion. Most of the other pros ignore everyone or they aren't active on the site. How exactly does he act unlike other people? Well here is just ONE example. Let me repeat that it is just a single example but he does this kind of stuff all the time. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214795¤tpage=12Let me also say that I read this thread when I had much more respect for him. When I read this thread I was surprised that anyone thought it was an acceptable way to behave here, especially with teammates. A thread that came up later with demuslim in it had no hint that it was ever a joke... in fact there was only more proof that it was a legitimate conversation when Incontrol responded "STFU plz" to someone who brought it up. On May 07 2011 01:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I'll give you a few hints:
1. I ask him to win every game for a year
2. "We regret nothing" ???
3. All caps should be a tip that something may be a miss here
4. The streotypes of "english" phrases in the sign off
5. Calling myself the FACE OF ESPORTS
6. I specify that he shouldn't beat EG protosses (HELLO?)
7. Find other posts I start with "Dear X" try and find a serious one... HINT: There are none.
The other 8 can be left to you to find (because I was being literal with the number 15)
^_____________^ He obviously doesn't clear it up enough in that thread. Everyone is just way to sensitive. I guess I am done trying to defend him. Gl Geoff. Alright that's great that you quoted the most polite of his posts in that thread, but how about addressing the other quotes directed at his teammate demuslim. Lets take a look...
ben I didn't think I'd have to say this but you are actually as stupid as the other people that read my post and took it serious at all LOL
jesus christ you are dumb lol
he is dumb though
Also I seemed to have angered the UK ^_^
'MERIKA
BEN WHY SO DUMB? LOLLLLLLLLLL
Do you HONESTLY think this is a polite way to act to a teammate, or that this behavior demands respect? Do you honestly think that he shouldn't have anyone disliking him after statements like this? Are you honestly defending these comments as appropriate? At the least answer that last question and simply say "yes" as you seem to defend him no matter what, and I guess we will be done here. I can't really say much more if you think calling a teammate dumb--who doesn't know you very well--over and over is good behavior. I don't know if you've realized this from reading his posts or listening to him, but Incontrol is frequently sarcastic and jokes around a lot. you're taking what appears to be insulting comments at face value but he's just playing around. Whether or not you think he should be joking is another question, but I don't see him actually being disrespectful here, he's obviously joking around with someone he knows well.
Then why did Demuslim not joke back, and instead respond seriously... and why did incontrol actually speak directly to the fact that demuslim didn't understand his sarcasm if in fact he really did and they were both joking?
(Let me reword it in case that was a bit unclear)
If they were joking around they would (likely) just take jabs at each other and that would be it, but instead Demuslim had serious responses, and Incontrol actually pointed out how "dumb" demuslim was for not recognizing the sarcasm and for responding seriously.
I don't think your assessment was fair to be completely honest. Maybe I am wrong here though, and incontrol was being sarcastic WITH Ben for the whole conversation, including when he called him dumb many times, but once again that was just one example of his behavior... and there have definitely been many which were clearly inappropriate without any excuses.
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On June 02 2011 06:46 iNcontroL wrote:
I have no idea what I've done to earn such rampant fucking haters. I can't get a word in without 10 responses. Half of them are mannered and level headed and the other are flaming sacks of shit.
I'm out of here.
So long to this thread. Thanks guys.
Translation: "I can't defend my viewpoints so I'm going to bail. Cya guys!"
User was banned for this post.
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United States22883 Posts
On June 02 2011 06:45 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:40 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:36 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 06:34 thee telescopes wrote:On June 02 2011 06:32 turdburgler wrote:On June 02 2011 06:29 thee telescopes wrote:
Seems like the only reason Incontrol gets this irrational level of hate is because he actually engages in the community and these frustrated people think they're more likely to get a response out of him than they would another player. Kinda sad.
I have no idea how the best podcast I listen to also seems to have the worst vocal following of any of them.
tyler talks to the community alot and yet almost noone dumps on him jinro has one of the highest post counts on the site and yet people are civil to him. ive also seen people like drewbie, naniwa and huk all post a reasonable amount. none of these people get dumped on. just simply saying that engaging in the community gets you a lot of crap isnt fair. Tyler himself said he engages in the community less these days on the last SOTG, none of those guys are nearly as prominent as Incontrol is right now. This thread reaches super infantile levels every week it seems and I really doubt most of the people involved on either side are really that way in general; people just seem to like to use this thread to take out their frustrations on others. Perhaps you should take note of the things that Incontrol gets into arguments over and then see if any of the pros with higher post counts act the same way. InControl is actually opinionated and invested in where the community goes. It is in his nature to debate points and actually engage in discussion. Most of the other pros ignore everyone or they aren't active on the site. How exactly does he act unlike other people? Well, there's nothing wrong with being opinionated and invested in the community... When you say something cool or smart, you'll get tons of support and when you say something stupid, you'll get a little flaming. When you belittle another team, and then abrasively respond to someone speaking positively of that team, labeling them an "EG hater" despite their comments being moderate at worst, then you're obviously going to get called out, and when you attempt to further your point of my team is better, we would do better in korea even though we aren't going to korea with shoddy reasoning, you're putting yourself in a silly situation.
Perhaps the situation was worsened, but it was sad to begin with. iNc is a lightning rod for attention, both because of the way he speaks and with all the things he does in the community, plus he does get himself in hairy situations, but he's not unique in having to defend his resume to people and that's just ridiculous. Him and Tyler have both gone through it and it's an absurd situation that only comes about on the internet. As if you must have a >45% win rate in order to talk about someone with a 55% win rate? That's ridiculous, but it happens all the time in this thread. They're both articulate top level pros with top level understanding, and while they're not at the IdrA level of stardom, they're still an extremely rare breed. If you run a NASCAR magazine and the 13th place racer wants to write an article about the ins and outs of stock car racing, you listen and don't question them because they made a bad move on lap 287. He's allowed to question another player's decisions or the readiness of a team without having his own resume pulled up. It's one of the pettiest of arguments and thankfully it's usually ignored in real life.
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On June 02 2011 07:18 Geordie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 07:13 Kamikiri wrote:On June 02 2011 06:55 felizuno wrote:On June 02 2011 06:46 iNcontroL wrote:
I have no idea what I've done to earn such rampant fucking haters. I can't get a word in without 10 responses. Half of them are mannered and level headed and the other are flaming sacks of shit.
I'm out of here.
So long to this thread. Thanks guys. Technically we shouldn't be talking about Geoff in this thread anyways. Tuesday was his last show, which makes all discussion about him "Off Topic" right? :-P Bye Geoff, you are better at SC than anybody posting in this thread and you're fucking a pageant winning model... so put two middle fingers up and ignore all the nobodies who power trip on the internets I really don't think the people are power tripping, I am fairly sure they just enjoy being douchebags to incontrol because they want someone to be an asshole to. In my opinion people are just being douchebags to incontrol because he is giving a reaction. With the way everything kicks off now the second somebody who is a pro says something that could be considered offensive people just jump on what they say at every opportunity and naturally everybody just jumps on the bandwagon because this is the TL forums and suddenly it is incontrol vs world.
no it just seems that way on this thread because a few vocal minorities were arguing with incontrol, and incontrol was defending himself. the majority of people who agree with incontrol's stance have no reason to parrot geoff's words and repeat them, when he gets his point across better than we can.
so yes, looking at the responses it may look like there isn't a single person that agrees with incontrol. but in reality the many people who do agree with him just have no reason to post.
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Summary of the last 25 pages of the thread: cheesing TLO 2x out of MLG Dallas is the crowning achievement of iNcontroL's career, and he admits it.
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On June 02 2011 07:21 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:45 Mordiford wrote:On June 02 2011 06:40 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:36 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 06:34 thee telescopes wrote:On June 02 2011 06:32 turdburgler wrote:On June 02 2011 06:29 thee telescopes wrote:
Seems like the only reason Incontrol gets this irrational level of hate is because he actually engages in the community and these frustrated people think they're more likely to get a response out of him than they would another player. Kinda sad.
I have no idea how the best podcast I listen to also seems to have the worst vocal following of any of them.
tyler talks to the community alot and yet almost noone dumps on him jinro has one of the highest post counts on the site and yet people are civil to him. ive also seen people like drewbie, naniwa and huk all post a reasonable amount. none of these people get dumped on. just simply saying that engaging in the community gets you a lot of crap isnt fair. Tyler himself said he engages in the community less these days on the last SOTG, none of those guys are nearly as prominent as Incontrol is right now. This thread reaches super infantile levels every week it seems and I really doubt most of the people involved on either side are really that way in general; people just seem to like to use this thread to take out their frustrations on others. Perhaps you should take note of the things that Incontrol gets into arguments over and then see if any of the pros with higher post counts act the same way. InControl is actually opinionated and invested in where the community goes. It is in his nature to debate points and actually engage in discussion. Most of the other pros ignore everyone or they aren't active on the site. How exactly does he act unlike other people? Well, there's nothing wrong with being opinionated and invested in the community... When you say something cool or smart, you'll get tons of support and when you say something stupid, you'll get a little flaming. When you belittle another team, and then abrasively respond to someone speaking positively of that team, labeling them an "EG hater" despite their comments being moderate at worst, then you're obviously going to get called out, and when you attempt to further your point of my team is better, we would do better in korea even though we aren't going to korea with shoddy reasoning, you're putting yourself in a silly situation. Perhaps the situation was worsened, but it was sad to begin with. iNc is a lightning rod for attention, both because of the way he speaks and with all the things he does in the community, plus he does get himself in hairy situations, but he's not unique in having to defend his resume to people and that's just ridiculous. Him and Tyler have both gone through it and it's an absurd situation that only comes about on the internet. As if you must have a >45% win rate in order to talk about someone with a 55% win rate? That's ridiculous, but it happens all the time in this thread. They're both articulate top level pros with top level understanding, and while they're not at the IdrA level of stardom, they're still an extremely rare breed. If you run a NASCAR magazine and the 13th place racer wants to write an article about the ins and outs of stock car racing, you listen and don't question them because they made a bad move on lap 287. He's allowed to question another player's decisions or the readiness of a team without having his own resume pulled up. It's one of the pettiest of arguments and thankfully it's usually ignored in real life.
I completely agree with this. I think a lot of the frustration here, however, is that incontrol was so often defending himself from other people who said he has no accomplishments (and I was one of the people defending him... there really isn't a reason to talk down on people who aren't trying to improve and get results), and then the moment he gets his first one, he then takes the opportunity to put himself above a player like Moonan (who has accomplishments of his own and performed approximately equally to inc at MLG) because of that accomplishment.
Edit:
On June 02 2011 07:24 ChrysaliS_ wrote:
Summary of the last 25 pages of the thread: cheesing TLO 2x out of MLG Dallas is the crowning achievement of iNcontroL's career, and he admits it.
I don't think that is a fair assessment at all. It is like you are trying to post baseless information to try to stir up arguments...
If I am wrong, then please try to find a quote that compliments your summary.
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So, I fell asleep while listening. Last thing I remember was them wrapping up the language discussion. Did I miss much?
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On June 02 2011 07:18 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 07:11 DystopiaX wrote:On June 02 2011 07:07 Chicane wrote:On June 02 2011 06:57 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:46 Chicane wrote:On June 02 2011 06:40 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:36 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 06:34 thee telescopes wrote:On June 02 2011 06:32 turdburgler wrote:On June 02 2011 06:29 thee telescopes wrote:
Seems like the only reason Incontrol gets this irrational level of hate is because he actually engages in the community and these frustrated people think they're more likely to get a response out of him than they would another player. Kinda sad.
I have no idea how the best podcast I listen to also seems to have the worst vocal following of any of them.
tyler talks to the community alot and yet almost noone dumps on him jinro has one of the highest post counts on the site and yet people are civil to him. ive also seen people like drewbie, naniwa and huk all post a reasonable amount. none of these people get dumped on. just simply saying that engaging in the community gets you a lot of crap isnt fair. Tyler himself said he engages in the community less these days on the last SOTG, none of those guys are nearly as prominent as Incontrol is right now. This thread reaches super infantile levels every week it seems and I really doubt most of the people involved on either side are really that way in general; people just seem to like to use this thread to take out their frustrations on others. Perhaps you should take note of the things that Incontrol gets into arguments over and then see if any of the pros with higher post counts act the same way. InControl is actually opinionated and invested in where the community goes. It is in his nature to debate points and actually engage in discussion. Most of the other pros ignore everyone or they aren't active on the site. How exactly does he act unlike other people? Well here is just ONE example. Let me repeat that it is just a single example but he does this kind of stuff all the time. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214795¤tpage=12Let me also say that I read this thread when I had much more respect for him. When I read this thread I was surprised that anyone thought it was an acceptable way to behave here, especially with teammates. A thread that came up later with demuslim in it had no hint that it was ever a joke... in fact there was only more proof that it was a legitimate conversation when Incontrol responded "STFU plz" to someone who brought it up. On May 07 2011 01:42 iNcontroL wrote:
I'll give you a few hints:
1. I ask him to win every game for a year
2. "We regret nothing" ???
3. All caps should be a tip that something may be a miss here
4. The streotypes of "english" phrases in the sign off
5. Calling myself the FACE OF ESPORTS
6. I specify that he shouldn't beat EG protosses (HELLO?)
7. Find other posts I start with "Dear X" try and find a serious one... HINT: There are none.
The other 8 can be left to you to find (because I was being literal with the number 15)
^_____________^ He obviously doesn't clear it up enough in that thread. Everyone is just way to sensitive. I guess I am done trying to defend him. Gl Geoff. Alright that's great that you quoted the most polite of his posts in that thread, but how about addressing the other quotes directed at his teammate demuslim. Lets take a look...
ben I didn't think I'd have to say this but you are actually as stupid as the other people that read my post and took it serious at all LOL
jesus christ you are dumb lol
he is dumb though
Also I seemed to have angered the UK ^_^
'MERIKA
BEN WHY SO DUMB? LOLLLLLLLLLL
Do you HONESTLY think this is a polite way to act to a teammate, or that this behavior demands respect? Do you honestly think that he shouldn't have anyone disliking him after statements like this? Are you honestly defending these comments as appropriate? At the least answer that last question and simply say "yes" as you seem to defend him no matter what, and I guess we will be done here. I can't really say much more if you think calling a teammate dumb--who doesn't know you very well--over and over is good behavior. I don't know if you've realized this from reading his posts or listening to him, but Incontrol is frequently sarcastic and jokes around a lot. you're taking what appears to be insulting comments at face value but he's just playing around. Whether or not you think he should be joking is another question, but I don't see him actually being disrespectful here, he's obviously joking around with someone he knows well. Then why did Demuslim not joke back, and instead respond seriously... and why did incontrol actually speak directly to the fact that demuslim didn't understand his sarcasm if in fact he really did and they were both joking? (Let me reword it in case that was a bit unclear) If they were joking around they would (likely) just take jabs at each other and that would be it, but instead Demuslim had serious responses, and Incontrol actually pointed out how "dumb" demuslim was for not recognizing the sarcasm and for responding seriously. I don't think your assessment was fair to be completely honest. Maybe I am wrong here though, and incontrol was being sarcastic WITH Ben for the whole conversation, including when he called him dumb many times, but once again that was just one example of his behavior... and there have definitely been many which were clearly inappropriate without any excuses.
Even if they weren't friends or on the same team, INcontrol would still take the jokes as far as he could because he is being sarcastic and thinks people would pick up on that via his posting clues to when he is trolling. Ex. Dear blahblahblah and weird capitalization.
INcontrol is a public figure so he wouldn't actually say ridiculously mean things in public (or the forum) to get everyone pissed off. His posts are mostly jokes and blatant sarcasm taken to the extreme.
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On June 02 2011 07:21 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:45 Mordiford wrote:On June 02 2011 06:40 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:36 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 06:34 thee telescopes wrote:On June 02 2011 06:32 turdburgler wrote:On June 02 2011 06:29 thee telescopes wrote:
Seems like the only reason Incontrol gets this irrational level of hate is because he actually engages in the community and these frustrated people think they're more likely to get a response out of him than they would another player. Kinda sad.
I have no idea how the best podcast I listen to also seems to have the worst vocal following of any of them.
tyler talks to the community alot and yet almost noone dumps on him jinro has one of the highest post counts on the site and yet people are civil to him. ive also seen people like drewbie, naniwa and huk all post a reasonable amount. none of these people get dumped on. just simply saying that engaging in the community gets you a lot of crap isnt fair. Tyler himself said he engages in the community less these days on the last SOTG, none of those guys are nearly as prominent as Incontrol is right now. This thread reaches super infantile levels every week it seems and I really doubt most of the people involved on either side are really that way in general; people just seem to like to use this thread to take out their frustrations on others. Perhaps you should take note of the things that Incontrol gets into arguments over and then see if any of the pros with higher post counts act the same way. InControl is actually opinionated and invested in where the community goes. It is in his nature to debate points and actually engage in discussion. Most of the other pros ignore everyone or they aren't active on the site. How exactly does he act unlike other people? Well, there's nothing wrong with being opinionated and invested in the community... When you say something cool or smart, you'll get tons of support and when you say something stupid, you'll get a little flaming. When you belittle another team, and then abrasively respond to someone speaking positively of that team, labeling them an "EG hater" despite their comments being moderate at worst, then you're obviously going to get called out, and when you attempt to further your point of my team is better, we would do better in korea even though we aren't going to korea with shoddy reasoning, you're putting yourself in a silly situation. Perhaps the situation was worsened, but it was sad to begin with. iNc is a lightning rod for attention, both because of the way he speaks and with all the things he does in the community, plus he does get himself in hairy situations, but he's not unique in having to defend his resume to people and that's just ridiculous. Him and Tyler have both gone through it and it's an absurd situation that only comes about on the internet. As if you must have a >45% win rate in order to talk about someone with a 55% win rate? That's ridiculous, but it happens all the time in this thread. They're both articulate top level pros with top level understanding, and while they're not at the IdrA level of stardom, they're still an extremely rare breed. If you run a NASCAR magazine and the 13th place racer wants to write an article about the ins and outs of stock car racing, you listen and don't question them because they made a bad move on lap 287. He's allowed to question another player's decisions or the readiness of a team without having his own resume pulled up. It's one of the pettiest of arguments and thankfully it's usually ignored in real life.
FXO has literally 0 team accomplishments except losing to EG in ESEA and taking I think 4th.
Where the HELL do people get it in their mind that they are a better team? It absolutely cannot be through results. Arbitrary considerations with players? Qxc hasn't been his former self since MLG of last year when he still placed lower than several EG players. Moonan? No accomplishments. Slog? Filthy? Tgun or w/e... all lower level than Machine, Strifecro and Lz. Sheth is great. But still has fewer / less accomplishments than I do in big tourneys (MLG). Then we compare super-stars.. IdrA vs Moonglade. Need I say more? And all this without mentioning Axslav who won MVP for crota invitational going undefeated against players like Jinro and the other top players from top teams.
In most cases, I agree completely with everything in your post Jibba.
However, the topic I have been discussing in this thread is not similar to a 13th place racer writing an article about the ins and outs of stock car racing and having to defend his resume.
This is a 13th place racer attacking everyone else's resume and getting mad when he's asked to explain why his is any better than theirs.
Or at least, that's what my posts have been regarding. I can't speak for anyone else I suppose.
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I think a lot of the frustration here, however, is that incontrol was so often defending himself from other people who said he has no accomplishments (and I was one of the people defending him... there really isn't a reason to talk down on people who aren't trying to improve and get results), and then the moment he gets his first one, he then takes the opportunity to put himself above a player like Moonan (who has accomplishments of his own and performed approximately equally to inc at MLG) because of that accomplishment.
That's the worst part of it all. incontrol often changes his stance on a specific issue depending on his own relationship to the issue at hand.
Another example is his bashing of MLG for the "That's how we do it in Halo" reasoning, and then later when he is involved in his own tournament, he uses the "that's how it works in basketball" reasoning to explain why only 5 people per team were to be invited.
WAT.
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On June 02 2011 07:21 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:45 Mordiford wrote:On June 02 2011 06:40 Demonace34 wrote:On June 02 2011 06:36 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 06:34 thee telescopes wrote:On June 02 2011 06:32 turdburgler wrote:On June 02 2011 06:29 thee telescopes wrote:
Seems like the only reason Incontrol gets this irrational level of hate is because he actually engages in the community and these frustrated people think they're more likely to get a response out of him than they would another player. Kinda sad.
I have no idea how the best podcast I listen to also seems to have the worst vocal following of any of them.
tyler talks to the community alot and yet almost noone dumps on him jinro has one of the highest post counts on the site and yet people are civil to him. ive also seen people like drewbie, naniwa and huk all post a reasonable amount. none of these people get dumped on. just simply saying that engaging in the community gets you a lot of crap isnt fair. Tyler himself said he engages in the community less these days on the last SOTG, none of those guys are nearly as prominent as Incontrol is right now. This thread reaches super infantile levels every week it seems and I really doubt most of the people involved on either side are really that way in general; people just seem to like to use this thread to take out their frustrations on others. Perhaps you should take note of the things that Incontrol gets into arguments over and then see if any of the pros with higher post counts act the same way. InControl is actually opinionated and invested in where the community goes. It is in his nature to debate points and actually engage in discussion. Most of the other pros ignore everyone or they aren't active on the site. How exactly does he act unlike other people? Well, there's nothing wrong with being opinionated and invested in the community... When you say something cool or smart, you'll get tons of support and when you say something stupid, you'll get a little flaming. When you belittle another team, and then abrasively respond to someone speaking positively of that team, labeling them an "EG hater" despite their comments being moderate at worst, then you're obviously going to get called out, and when you attempt to further your point of my team is better, we would do better in korea even though we aren't going to korea with shoddy reasoning, you're putting yourself in a silly situation. Perhaps the situation was worsened, but it was sad to begin with. iNc is a lightning rod for attention, both because of the way he speaks and with all the things he does in the community, plus he does get himself in hairy situations, but he's not unique in having to defend his resume to people and that's just ridiculous. Him and Tyler have both gone through it and it's an absurd situation that only comes about on the internet. As if you must have a >45% win rate in order to talk about someone with a 55% win rate? That's ridiculous, but it happens all the time in this thread. They're both articulate top level pros with top level understanding, and while they're not at the IdrA level of stardom, they're still an extremely rare breed. If you run a NASCAR magazine and the 13th place racer wants to write an article about the ins and outs of stock car racing, you listen and don't question them because they made a bad move on lap 287. He's allowed to question another player's decisions or the readiness of a team without having his own resume pulled up. It's one of the pettiest of arguments and thankfully it's usually ignored in real life.
If the 13th place racer wrote an article saying the 12th or 14th place racer has no accomplishments then he should/would receive just criticism for it.
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What makes people think it's a good idea to flame players who are 100 times better than themselves? You are just being pointless and annoying.
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EPT
