EPTThis protoss map awareness doesnt extend even to the edges of his own main.
Clever nydus chaining from Korea [youtube] - Page 2
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
This protoss map awareness doesnt extend even to the edges of his own main. | ||
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Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
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The_Pacifist
United States540 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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AyJay
1515 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:00 silencesc wrote: That was beautiful nydusing. Thank you Korea. thank you kungfuukitten *cough*  just find it sort of hilarious that if an american foreigner theorizes it and does it it's "lol that will never work," but when a korean does it a month later it's "lol genius!" @_@ | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:17 Backpack wrote: agreed. It only seems special because all the zergs now would rather complain and be depressed rather than try new things. I assure you, I always make it a point to scout the enemy base with an Overseer for locations to place a Nydus Worm. Especially on maps like Scrap Station where I can also use worms to easily expand to islands and provide an escape route for my drones at the same time. It's just that most of the time good players put Pylons/Supply Depots/Turrets on all the edges of their base. And since Nydus Worms take 20 seconds to build, building a Nydus Worm where the enemy can see it is basically flushing 100/100 down the toilet. On August 13 2010 06:17 Backpack wrote: This was actually one of the first things i thought of when i was looking at the new stuff in SC2, but I don't play zerg so i never used it. Well that explains it. Offensive Nydus Worming really is one of those things that seems cool on paper but will rarely see usage against a good player. Maybe in late-game scenarios where the opponent has 3+ bases and not enough of an army to cover everything. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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dagene
United States75 Posts
e: i think he was just casting a game he played. he didn't mean to show off nydus play or anything. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:30 archon256 wrote: Offensive Nydus Worming really is one of those things that seems cool on paper but will rarely see usage against a good player. Maybe in late-game scenarios where the opponent has 3+ bases and not enough of an army to cover everything. I don't think this will end up being true. In SC:BW, Protoss and Terran could theoretically never do any drop harass once "a good zerg" had scourge on the map and overlords everywhere. But of course pro games are filled with shuttles and dropships wreaking havoc on such zergs. | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
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Rybka
United States836 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:17 Backpack wrote: agreed. It only seems special because all the zergs now would rather complain and be depressed rather than try new things. This was actually one of the first things i thought of when i was looking at the new stuff in SC2, but I don't play zerg so i never used it. Exactly. You don't play zerg, so you don't understand why their proper use is impressive. If only your drop ship attacks gave an audible warning across the entire map that signaled that they were about to drop a huge MM ball in my base (oh yeah, and 20 seconds to react to it)... then, and only then, you might understand haha. | ||
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peachsncream
United States289 Posts
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:17 Backpack wrote: agreed. It only seems special because all the zergs now would rather complain and be depressed rather than try new things. This was actually one of the first things i thought of when i was looking at the new stuff in SC2, but I don't play zerg so i never used it. And it works if the protoss player is blind and doesn't keep sight to his main ... as was pointed out a pylon behind the vents is standard. Imagine for a sec that those roaches are an equivalent cost of marauders and each of those worms is a medivac, a protoss that blind would get absolutely destroyed (much worse than with roaches in fact as the marauders with medivacs could straight up destroy the stalkers and get through buildings much much faster). Now imagine the overseer is a warp prism and you have a bunch of gates spamming out speed zealots behind the vents, same result. It's a consequence of extremely poor play from the protoss, not some genius solution to zerg's issues. In fact, the very premise (that he is locked into his main and can do almost nothing about it) is pretty zerg specific, Terran would have the drop option, or they could make a tank and blow cannons up to expand, protoss could at the very least warp things in on the low ground for a surround, or get blink or a colossus. Zerg? has to Nydus to be in any way offensive and it still takes him ages to break the contain (a contain by the way that is very easily set up as Tester showed). Try playing zerg and see how it goes. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
at all | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I don't think this will end up being true. In SC:BW, Protoss and Terran could theoretically never do any drop harass once "a good zerg" had scourge on the map and overlords everywhere. But of course pro games are filled with shuttles and dropships wreaking havoc on such zergs. Drop ships fly in, they don't sit static in the enemy's sight for 20 seconds. Also, drop ships couldn't get killed by workers :/. | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:41 peachsncream wrote: ^ nydus are completely useless vs protoss and i dont think i've ever had a zerg last longer than 12 minutes vs me in so i dont see this as possible. zvt abusing mech immobility could really be the only time this is good, but still theres 2 many drawbacks to it that make it unappealing. Hopefully, some1 can find some good uses for it in their strats, but this zerg in the video was a very lower tier player and so was the protoss The use? taking island (or maybe far off gold) expansions fast and being able to save the drones if they get attacked. The very fact that at any level a protoss can just put down 2-3 buildings and the Zerg can do very little about it is somewhat aberrant, spine crawlers are strictly inferior to cannons, cost more (same minerals but the larva is a pain for zerg) and can only sit/be built on creep. It would be less of a problem if the only race that can't really build offensively didn't also have the fewest units and abilities. | ||
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OhJesusWOW
United Kingdom127 Posts
Preparing a Nydus Network and two worms in your own respective expansions costs 350 minerals and 400 gas 90 in-game seconds (at the very least). If that meant saving all of your drones (the capacity to safely transfer drones to and fro on the turn of a second) with a possibility of salvaging your expansions and retain map control, the investment has been well worth it. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:49 Sixes wrote: Drop ships fly in, they don't sit static in the enemy's sight for 20 seconds. Also, drop ships couldn't get killed by workers :/. And your whole army isn't loaded into a dropship Dropships still get in because there's other shit going on. There's never anything else going on with a nydus because your army is poised to enter the worm if it isn't already in it. This game is the kind of thing the "abuse your mobility" crowd will naturally cling to, but the protoss was really fucking stupid to allow it to happen. I think nydus are cool but they arent even as good as medivacs or other random drop harass (medivac is just the most common because you pretty much always have them, it's not some out of the way unit/upgrade) | ||
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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
its almost like playing All In from campaign. | ||
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