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On August 13 2010 06:41 Rybka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 06:17 Backpack wrote:On August 13 2010 06:10 a176 wrote:
thats not really anything special ... agreed. It only seems special because all the zergs now would rather complain and be depressed rather than try new things. This was actually one of the first things i thought of when i was looking at the new stuff in SC2, but I don't play zerg so i never used it. Exactly. You don't play zerg, so you don't understand why their proper use is impressive. If only your drop ship attacks gave an audible warning across the entire map that signaled that they were about to drop a huge MM ball in my base (oh yeah, and 20 seconds to react to it)... then, and only then, you might understand haha.
what does this have to do with my post?
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zerg shouldn't have thrown all his roaches in that first nydus but instead just sent enough to cause havoc and still guard his base untill he was sure toss army was returning to base, then went in with rest. this way he left himself open to stalkers coming in and sniping nydus worm
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There was also a good game on Trump's stream where a zerg Nydus'ed him on Desert Oasis. It was kind of similar to this.
it happened because Trump didn't have vision of his entire main, and then it spiraled out of control with the main and nat being so far apart and the Z picked him apart. There were other factors obviously but the main one is that Nydus worm just was so underused that people don't actively consider it.
Just like how people can actually die to DTs in SC2 even though DTs are terrible compared to BW. They are so tremendously underused that if you see a low unit count you are far more likely to assume void ray.
If DTs ever become popular, it would stop working immediately. I feel like Nydus suffers from the same thing. Even pre nerf in beta, people began expecting Nydus and shutting it down. If Nydus became standard, it would rapidly become useless again. That's why I just can't consider it anything but a clever idea to pull out of your hat every now and then.
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woah the fake zealot block was so baller
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To be fair, several of the nydas worms was placed within vision, so that reason why it isn't valid well... isn't completely valid.
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This was really good nyduswork. There was an amazing changeling block, keeping his force alive to defend the counter attack, loading in one nydus while unloading another, and my favourite the Evacuation nydus. The Protoss didn't play too bad either, you don't fast expand or doom push if you contain a Zerg. Sure he could have pyloned his vents but there will be other spots in a Protoss base that Are dark.
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On August 13 2010 06:47 Sixes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 06:17 Backpack wrote:On August 13 2010 06:10 a176 wrote:
thats not really anything special ... agreed. It only seems special because all the zergs now would rather complain and be depressed rather than try new things. This was actually one of the first things i thought of when i was looking at the new stuff in SC2, but I don't play zerg so i never used it. And it works if the protoss player is blind and doesn't keep sight to his main ... as was pointed out a pylon behind the vents is standard. Imagine for a sec that those roaches are an equivalent cost of marauders and each of those worms is a medivac, a protoss that blind would get absolutely destroyed (much worse than with roaches in fact as the marauders with medivacs could straight up destroy the stalkers and get through buildings much much faster). Now imagine the overseer is a warp prism and you have a bunch of gates spamming out speed zealots behind the vents, same result. It's a consequence of extremely poor play from the protoss, not some genius solution to zerg's issues. In fact, the very premise (that he is locked into his main and can do almost nothing about it) is pretty zerg specific, Terran would have the drop option, or they could make a tank and blow cannons up to expand, protoss could at the very least warp things in on the low ground for a surround, or get blink or a colossus. Zerg? has to Nydus to be in any way offensive and it still takes him ages to break the contain (a contain by the way that is very easily set up as Tester showed). Try playing zerg and see how it goes.
Completely irrelevant. You do know 1 dropship costs 100/100, same cost as 1 nydus, can only carry 5 marauders (while there is no limit for a nydus), and drop them at a slower rate than a nydus would. Also, you need to fly it all over the map which usually takes around 20 sec too, so there is a high chance the ennemy spots it.
Bias at its finest, nydus are a very nice tool. For the drop units thing, all of your overlords do it for the cost of one dropship, there is absolutely no reason to whine about this.
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If you are better at cross-focus and multitasking than your opponent then worms will catch them off-guard from time to time. I'm sure we'll see some pimpest plays with this feature.
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Awesome nydus play, not to mention the changling block.
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On August 13 2010 07:13 Jameser wrote:
zerg shouldn't have thrown all his roaches in that first nydus but instead just sent enough to cause havoc and still guard his base untill he was sure toss army was returning to base, then went in with rest. this way he left himself open to stalkers coming in and sniping nydus worm
stalkers do plus damage to roaches so leaving a few behind against a larger stalker force wouldnt be a good idea
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On August 13 2010 06:15 archon256 wrote:
No pylon behind the gas vents?
Fail.
On August 13 2010 06:16 dezi wrote:
Just poorly played by the P.
This sums up my thoughts quite nicely. Epic fail by the 'toss.
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On August 13 2010 07:58 Zato-1 wrote:This sums up my thoughts quite nicely. Epic fail by the 'toss.
Mistakes are made, the Zerg exploited the mistake. +1 to zerg, -1 for Toss.
But you could just blame the Toss for making the mistake instead of complimenting the Zerg for exploiting it...
If the Toss played better making less mistakes he would have won! omg game is broken!
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On August 13 2010 07:24 cArn- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 06:47 Sixes wrote:On August 13 2010 06:17 Backpack wrote:On August 13 2010 06:10 a176 wrote:
thats not really anything special ... agreed. It only seems special because all the zergs now would rather complain and be depressed rather than try new things. This was actually one of the first things i thought of when i was looking at the new stuff in SC2, but I don't play zerg so i never used it. And it works if the protoss player is blind and doesn't keep sight to his main ... as was pointed out a pylon behind the vents is standard. Imagine for a sec that those roaches are an equivalent cost of marauders and each of those worms is a medivac, a protoss that blind would get absolutely destroyed (much worse than with roaches in fact as the marauders with medivacs could straight up destroy the stalkers and get through buildings much much faster). Now imagine the overseer is a warp prism and you have a bunch of gates spamming out speed zealots behind the vents, same result. It's a consequence of extremely poor play from the protoss, not some genius solution to zerg's issues. In fact, the very premise (that he is locked into his main and can do almost nothing about it) is pretty zerg specific, Terran would have the drop option, or they could make a tank and blow cannons up to expand, protoss could at the very least warp things in on the low ground for a surround, or get blink or a colossus. Zerg? has to Nydus to be in any way offensive and it still takes him ages to break the contain (a contain by the way that is very easily set up as Tester showed). Try playing zerg and see how it goes. Completely irrelevant. You do know 1 dropship costs 100/100, same cost as 1 nydus, can only carry 5 marauders (while there is no limit for a nydus), and drop them at a slower rate than a nydus would. Also, you need to fly it all over the map which usually takes around 20 sec too, so there is a high chance the ennemy spots it. Bias at its finest, nydus are a very nice tool. For the drop units thing, all of your overlords do it for the cost of one dropship, there is absolutely no reason to whine about this.
Nydus costs 250/300 to get the first head out, then 100/100 after that. Healbus heals, which creates one of the strongest synergies in game when combined with stim. No, buying the initial canal is not comparable to Terran buying starport. Healbus can carry 4 marauders. Your point about flying is irrelevant, since spotting the Healbus doesn't do the same kind of damage to the tactic as spotting the nydus does.
This is a thread about nydus. I do however agree with droptech being good.
Not sure if nydus is ok or not tbh. The cost of it almost makes it an allin and it's pretty damn easy to stop. Everything zerg has is already gas heavy... maaaybbeeee remove the gas cost completely/almost completely and just make it expensive in minerals? 600 minerals to get the first head out, 200 for the rest? :D
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Real impressive, but less impressive when you factor in that the P was doing a cannon contain. It's like a drop harass rather than a drop. A full drop is much more effective as when the army returns [assuming you are doing this when the army is OOP], you can simply load back up, and also doesn't have an alarm that says "I'm here!".
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Was pretty cool to watch, but supply blocking himself was 
all-in i guess
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classic but well use of nydus, nice play 
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I loved it. :D
Perfectly executed hit and runs with few unit losses. He did however seem to totaly forget about his base and the terran player should have been more aware of the nydus worms after the first one had been repelled.
It was nice to see some nydus usage even if it wouldn't have worked against a better enemy.
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Nydus is amazing.
Why are there so many haters?
Didn't you see how he would evacuate his Roaches to the initial nydus and then pop on the other side of the base? How could Protoss deal with that when he has to dance his army back and forth between his base, almost never getting to hit the Roaches? If he split his army, the Roaches would overtake one half, heal and then destroy the other half. If he put up Cannons, that's less army therefore the Roaches would eventually get the army advantage. The Zerg player just outplayed the Protoss player using Nydus Worms. Abusing the mobility of the Nydus Worms in one the things that will surely catch on later on.
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EPT
